8.5 hour work day

amadangomor

My hours that I am required to be at work are 8.5 hour per day. So am at work for 42.5 hours per week. Get paid for 8 hours per day - 40 per week.

Not sure about all but some of my colleagues work 8.5 hours also but leave 2.5 hours early on Friday. This is not an option for me as the client puts huge importance on being available until finishing time in case of emergencies.

My colleagues clients are not as strict so more power to them.

Don't want to ruin things for my colleagues but in terms of equality I was thinking of asking that I either be at work for 40 hours like them, maybe come in half hour later than I do now each day or that I get paid for 42.5 hours.

What does everyone think?

ELM327

This disparity would likely be the unpaid 30 mins lunch? In accordance with the working time act you must be given a 30 minute lunch break after 6 hours worked. In addition to the 15 minutes break acquired with 4 hours work. However the 30 mins is not required to be paid.

Baby01032012

As above most people are required to be at work from 9 - 5.30, no one gets paid for their lunch and a lot of people work through it so they can get out on time...so what is your issue op?

amadangomor

ELM327 wrote: »

This disparity would likely be the unpaid 30 mins lunch? In accordance with the working time act you must be given a 30 minute lunch break after 6 hours worked. In addition to the 15 minutes break acquired with 4 hours work. However the 30 mins is not required to be paid.

Yes that's the disparity but my colleagues all get the same breaks but are present 40 hours because they leave 2.5 hours early on a Friday, whereas I am present 42.5 hours.

ELM327

amadangomor wrote: »

Yes that's the disparity but my colleagues all get the same breaks but are present 40 hours because they leave 2.5 hours early on a Friday, whereas I am present 42.5 hours.

You are "present" but presumably you are paid for working hours and not presenteeism.

amadangomor

Baby01032012 wrote: »

As above most people are required to be at work from 9 - 5.30, no one gets paid for their lunch and a lot of people work through it so they can get out on time...so what is your issue op?

They work the same hours as me Monday to Thursday, same breaks etc . but I don't/can't leave early on a Friday like they do.

amadangomor

ELM327 wrote: »

You are "present" but presumably you are paid for working hours and not presenteeism.

Part of the job is being available to go into action when emergencies pop up so being available and keeping an eye on emails is part of the job.

I had all my work done by 1pm today but still have to stay in case of emergencies.

krissovo

amadangomor wrote: »

Not sure about all but some of my colleagues work 8.5 hours also but leave 2.5 hours early on Friday. ?

A POETS day on Friday is usually discretionary by the manager and agreed in advance. The hours are also usually covered by informal overtime during the week.

As you are client facing and probably working to a contract or statement of works unfortunately you lose out on the opportunity.

ELM327

amadangomor wrote: »

Part of the job is being available to go into action when emergencies pop up so being available and keeping an eye on emails is part of the job.

I had all my work done by 1pm today but still have to stay in case of emergencies.

I mean, I understand it must be frustrating but there must be something different to your job to remove the ability to leave early.

amadangomor

krissovo wrote: »

A POETS day on Friday is usually discretionary by the manager and agreed in advance. The hours are also usually covered by informal overtime during the week.

As you are client facing and probably working to a contract or statement of works unfortunately you lose out on the opportunity.

A few years ago we had a manager for the clients who would tell me to go about 2pm but keep my phone on until 4 in case of emergencies.

Perfect solution, sadly he is gone.

amadangomor

ELM327 wrote: »

I mean, I understand it must be frustrating but there must be something different to your job to remove the ability to leave early.

My direct client is fussy about it as he may get a request to get something done urgently and needs someone available so fair enough.

antix80

Look this whole "being present" thing is nonsense. It sounds like you work a 37.5 hour week with an unpaid hour for lunch.
If some of your colleagues are able to skive off for 2 hours on a Friday and still get paid it's because their workload permits it & yours doesn't. So, try to move out of the role/portfolio of clients you deal with when the opportunity arises. Til then, keep the head down and remember how lucky you are to have a job.

krissovo

I remember working on a client site in central london and I was the only onsite resource, we were providing local IT services. Two years I had of working to 6pm on friday without ever getting a call on a Friday. The client office was empty apart from me and a security guard come 3pm. One day I thought I would chance sloping off at 4:30..... Well feck me come 5pm the backup tape machine in the server room decided to eat a load of the backup tapes and started a small fire. I was stuck in traffic when I got the call from security just past 5pm so turned around and speed back to the office to open up the server room for the fire brigade.

I worked there another year, and not one call on a Friday afternoon came and I never left early again.

amadangomor

antix80 wrote: »

Look this whole "being present" thing is nonsense. It sounds like you work a 37.5 hour week with an unpaid hour for lunch.
If some of your colleagues are able to skive off for 2 hours on a Friday and still get paid it's because their workload permits it & yours doesn't. So, try to move out of the role/portfolio of clients you deal with when the opportunity arises. Til then, keep the head down and remember how lucky you are to have a job.

Not about workload as I run my own schedule in terms of getting work done and I blitzed it Monday to Wednesday so will be available for anything extra late in the week. Swap the 37.5 for 40 and you are correct on your first point.

antix80

amadangomor wrote: »

Not about workload as I run my own schedule in terms of getting work done and I blitzed it Monday to Wednesday so will be available for anything extra late in the week. Swap the 37.5 for 40 and you are correct on your first point.

Workload just means assigned tasks. the task assigned to you is to be on hand until 5.30pm on friday. You can blitz though as much work as you like but as long as that client is yours you'll be there til 5.30.

I guess one solution is to cross-train someone else in dealing with the client so that it doesn't always fall to you. Can't see anyone volunteering. So your best bet is just trying to get rid of that client and do other work instead. There's a few ways to accomplish that - move internally being one.

ELM327

This is the problem with direct customer facing/ops roles.

Strumms

It’s unfair. If your contract is for 40 hours a week, do 40 hours and good luck to them.

Speak with management, tell them your concerns, that you can and would be flexible on request and indeed using initiative. However you are not prepared to routinely every week just do extra. A solution that could be with mentioning is that 30 minutes is taken off each shift, either a later start, or an earlier finish.

You are doing give or take 10 hours extra per month, without being paid. So basically a shift and a bit, you are giving them free. 120 hours per year, that’s 15 days, 120 hours of free labor. You need to sit down with this written out, and talk to them. They sound like a back alley operator, they in fact are.

Masala

Strumms wrote: »

It’s unfair. If your contract is for 40 hours a week, do 40 hours and good luck to them.

Speak with management, tell them your concerns, that you can and would be flexible on request and indeed using initiative. However you are not prepared to routinely every week just do extra. A solution that could be with mentioning is that 30 minutes is taken off each shift, either a later start, or an earlier finish.

You are doing give or take 10 hours extra per month, without being paid. So basically a shift and a bit, you are giving them free. 120 hours per year, that’s 15 days, 120 hours of free labor. You need to sit down with this written out, and talk to them. They sound like a back alley operator, they in fact are.

Workers in the same company can have different terms..... yours is set out as 9.00 to 05.30pm (42.5 hrs) and they have allowed you 2 x 15 min breaks and a 30 min hunch (all unpaid)..... So in effect you are working 37.5 hrs on the job. The company is legally obliged to give you these breaks - so you can not 'select' to forgo these and go home at 4.30pm each day instead. So - they paying you 39 hrs for 37.5 hrs work..... so you are actually up!

Baby01032012

Baby01032012 wrote: »

As above most people are required to be at work from 9 - 5.30, no one gets paid for their lunch and a lot of people work through it so they can get out on time...so what is your issue op?

Plenty of people get paid for their breaks. Plenty of people don't work extras for free.

Yes, I know plenty do as well and there's always that busy period, but that doesn't mean we should just shrug it off and accept it.

Your pay is based on a 40 hour week or 39 or whatever. If others are doing 40 and you are doing more, it should be recognised in some way.

Strumms

Masala wrote: »

Workers in the same company can have different terms..... yours is set out as 9.00 to 05.30pm (42.5 hrs) and they have allowed you 2 x 15 min breaks and a 30 min hunch (all unpaid)..... So in effect you are working 37.5 hrs on the job. The company is legally obliged to give you these breaks - so you can not 'select' to forgo these and go home at 4.30pm each day instead. So - they paying you 39 hrs for 37.5 hrs work..... so you are actually up!

It’s possible alright but in my experience unusual... shifts, responsibilities etc can differ but the policy of employment should be the same. Only one company handbook and rules etc.

ExMachina1000

The extra hours are indisputable. Its cut and dry

I would look for an increase to pay those extra hours rather than a later start. You are already doing those hours. You might as well get paid for them.
I would suggest both options though as anything would be an improvement.
And since those extra clients are deemed important you have leverage.

You shouldn't need it if fair was fair but you have it anyway.

First thing Monday morning.

joeguevara

What does your contract say about your work hours, breaks and pay. If it’s what you are doing then you have no basis of complaint. If it’s not stated then you might. For what it’s worth people negotiate finishing early. That is their perk.

hs5424

Don't feel to hard done by.
I am self employed for the past 38 years and work about 60 hours a week. I get paid for about 20 hours a week and am available, if I get a call during Sunday dinner. Yesterday for example I did two house calls which involved basically pressing a few buttons in one house and going up on the roof in the next one for a few minutes. I could not charge for these calls, that is if I wanted to retain these good customers on my client list. So yesterday for example was a zero revenue day for me.
Never mind what hours the other guys work. The bottom line is , do you enjoy your work. If you do you will still be there like me after 38 years.
By the way, my private pension which I paid into for 25 years went down Swanee River also.

hs5424

hs5424 wrote: »

my private pension which I paid into for 25 years went down Swanee River also.

Completely? Surely it crashed but still existed and has grown again?

hs5424

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Completely? Surely it crashed but still existed and has grown again?

I wish.

amadangomor

hs5424 wrote: »

Don't feel to hard done by.
I am self employed for the past 38 years and work about 60 hours a week. I get paid for about 20 hours a week and am available, if I get a call during Sunday dinner. Yesterday for example I did two house calls which involved basically pressing a few buttons in one house and going up on the roof in the next one for a few minutes. I could not charge for these calls, that is if I wanted to retain these good customers on my client list. So yesterday for example was a zero revenue day for me.
Never mind what hours the other guys work. The bottom line is , do you enjoy your work. If you do you will still be there like me after 38 years.
By the way, my private pension which I paid into for 25 years went down Swanee River also.

I do like my job. Not sure about enjoying it but as jobs go it is good. Lots in independence, no one breathing down my neck, trusted to do the work and keep the client happy.

I'm not begrudging my colleagues for getting off early but seeing as the nature of my job requires me to be there for 42.5 hours and they only 40 I should be compensated for that extra commitment.

There will be changes to our contract due to a large expansion later in the year and I may wait until then and make sure I get fairly treated when I am negotiating.

Thanks for all the input people

hs5424

Best of luck later on in the year.
If senior management know their job they will see your efforts and reward you accordingly. If you were leaving the co. they would have to put on their thinking caps and ask themselves the question, who is going to step into your job. ???????. You would probably get a better offer to remain with the co. at that stage.

SEPT 23 1989

Self employed

Try 12 to 15 hours a day for a few weeks and see how you are mentally and physically after that

Strumms

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Self employed

Try 12 to 15 hours a day for a few weeks and see how you are mentally and physically after that

Self employed is a different scenario. You have a choice to either do the extra hours or not. You can choose to reward yourself with extra pay, or not.

Problem is here, the OP has no choice, is doing the extra but not being compensated for doing extra.

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

Self employed is a different scenario. You have a choice to either do the extra hours or not. You can choose to reward yourself with extra pay, or not.

Problem is here, the OP has no choice, is doing the extra but not being compensated for doing extra.

The OP is not doing extra work. Their colleagues are simply getting away with doing less. No need to screw things up for them.

s1ippy

antix80 wrote: »

Til then, keep the head down and remember how lucky you are to have a job.

This is a very sad attitude to have.

You only have a limited amount of hours in your day OP. They're yours to do with as you please, but if you're giving away hundreds of free hours, that devalues you; it's clear from your post that you recognise that. It's not about your colleagues and their time, it's about your time and it's being wasted.

First thing I would do is spend a bit of that time to make out a CV. Look at jobs that you think are above your current pay grade and then apply for them. Tailor your application for each one so that you point out all your demonstrable strengths and prove you're the ideal candidate for the job... give them no other choice but you. If you have a bit of experience you'll get at least a few interviews.

Next, most interviews come with a checklist. Sometimes they're even kind enough to hand them to you but for some organisations, it'll be trickier to track them down. If you know somebody in the organisation or who was successful during a similar hiring campaign, ask for their help with ascertaining the criteria they're looking to fulfil.

Now that you have an idea of the kind of questions, write them out and fill pages with examples of work that you've done which shows your competency beyond any doubt.

When you have the leverage of a position waiting for you, you can negotiate from a position of strength. Be indispensable! Or if you prefer, you can jump ship. That kind of ambitiousness is great for your finances, your career and gives a huge ego boost. Based on the grafting you're doing, it sounds like you deserve it.

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

but if you're giving away hundreds of free hours, that devalues you; it's clear from your post that you recognise that. It's not about your colleagues and their time, it's about your time and it's being wasted.
t.

I thought from reading the op that he/she is being paid for the hours being worked and 2.5 hours relates to unpaid lunch break, where are you seeing that hundreds of working hours are being given away free?

I can see how it would be considered “pay for free hours” if the op was allowed to leave 2.5hours early on Fridays, and be paid for them.

Irishphotodesk

Strumms wrote: »

Self employed is a different scenario. You have a choice to either do the extra hours or not. You can choose to reward yourself with extra pay, or not.

Problem is here, the OP has no choice, is doing the extra but not being compensated for doing extra.

You seem to have a distorted view of the self employed person, anyone that is self employed will tell you that if you refuse work, you risk loosing the client, (similar position to the OP, if they leave at same time to their co-workers they risk upsetting their client and hence their boss will be annoyed with them and the client may look elsewhere).

Self employed people do not have a choice to do extra hours or not, and certainly don’t have the luxury of choosing to reward themselves with extra pay, in the 80’s/90’s and even the 00’s being self employed meant you could charge a client more than they would expect to pay for an employee, due to the fact the client didn’t have to pay sick pay, holiday pay etc etc, however these days, a self employed person is expected to do extra hours, be available regularly and for less pay than an employee, there is little or no respect given to self employed people.

My dad was self employed in construction industry and he often worked 7 days a week and in the 80’s/90’s he would receive calls at 7-8-9pm and have to go out and do a “quick job” then up and out at 6am for work, my brother is currently self employed and I’ve witnessed him receiving work calls while at family functions and he would have to leave, which is extremely frustrating for his family to have to facilitate - often someone else will have to bring them home to their house as he may have had to drive elsewhere, or they will travel to family events in two vehicles in case he gets a work call.

Being self employed is not a cash cow from my understanding, as for the OP, from what I read you are irritated by the fact co workers can leave early and get paid the same, if you complain it’s possible you will either earn a little more money or co workers will all be called to task on their times, if it’s the latter, you risk a lash back from co workers if it’s discovered who complained about their “cushy number” , as others have said, look elsewhere or try to figure out how to offload that particular client.

Irishphotodesk

s1ippy wrote: »

This is a very sad attitude to have.

You only have a limited amount of hours in your day OP. They're yours to do with as you please, but if you're giving away hundreds of free hours, that devalues you; it's clear from your post that you recognise that. It's not about your colleagues and their time, it's about your time and it's being wasted.

What complete and utter tosh, the hours in the day are not yours if you are an employee, they are your employers hours, they are not being wasted it is what the OP is being paid for.

If the OP is contracted to work 8.5hrs a day, outside of those hours the OP can do whatever, if colleagues are contracted to do 8.5hrs a day and they don’t thats not really the OPs problem unless they want to make an issue of it, which, if they do, could make for an unhealthy work atmosphere.

If the OPs co workers are permitted to leave without doing the necessary 8.5hrs per day then that is between those people and their managers/clients, the OP isn’t working extra for free, they are doing their agreed time, unfortunately for them others seem to be on easy street.

There are 168 hours in a week, the OP is working 42.5 of those, lets take approx 8hrs sleep a day (that’s 56hrs per week) ...OP you have 69.5hrs per week to yourself....go wild!!!

Batgurl

Your colleagues are getting what’s called “discretionary benefits” and while it sucks for you, it’s not discriminatory.

I’ve seen this play out in many ways; some teams get company vouched team lunches, others don’t. Some get Flexi time, others don’t. Usually it depends on the role, the manager and the goodwill the team has built up.

By all means, try to negotiate your own working conditions but IMO you need to leave what your colleagues get out of it.

Imagine if you raise it as an issue and the company instead decide to remove this benefit your colleagues enjoy and increase all their hours by 2.5 hours? You’d be a pariah!

Irishphotodesk

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

You seem to have a distorted view of the self employed person, anyone that is self employed will tell you that if you refuse work, you risk loosing the client, (similar position to the OP, if they leave at same time to their co-workers they risk upsetting their client and hence their boss will be annoyed with them and the client may look elsewhere).

Self employed people do not have a choice to do extra hours or not, and certainly don’t have the luxury of choosing to reward themselves with extra pay, in the 80’s/90’s and even the 00’s being self employed meant you could charge a client more than they would expect to pay for an employee, due to the fact the client didn’t have to pay sick pay, holiday pay etc etc, however these days, a self employed person is expected to do extra hours, be available regularly and for less pay than an employee, there is little or no respect given to self employed people.

My dad was self employed in construction industry and he often worked 7 days a week and in the 80’s/90’s he would receive calls at 7-8-9pm and have to go out and do a “quick job” then up and out at 6am for work, my brother is currently self employed and I’ve witnessed him receiving work calls while at family functions and he would have to leave, which is extremely frustrating for his family to have to facilitate - often someone else will have to bring them home to their house as he may have had to drive elsewhere, or they will travel to family events in two vehicles in case he gets a work call.

Being self employed is not a cash cow from my understanding, as for the OP, from what I read you are irritated by the fact co workers can leave early and get paid the same, if you complain it’s possible you will either earn a little more money or co workers will all be called to task on their times, if it’s the latter, you risk a lash back from co workers if it’s discovered who complained about their “cushy number” , as others have said, look elsewhere or try to figure out how to offload that particular client.

That's a very long whinge about careers that you have chosen.

hs5424

I think s1ippy said it all in one word. Be 'indespensable'.

I always tell my young lad that when I was looking for my first job all employers were looking at what qualifications I had. After I was employed for a few years or so the only thing they asked me during an interview was what I was doing in my last job. They didn't give 'jack ****' if I had any City & Guilds qualifications or not . Only interested in what value I had to bring to their business. In fact my second employer heard that things were not going great with my first employers business and I was approached to join their company. Correction,, I should have used the term ''I was head hunted''. Ha Ha.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The OP is not doing extra work. Their colleagues are simply getting away with doing less. No need to screw things up for them.

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

bee06

Strumms wrote: »

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

That 2.5 hours is their unpaid lunch break. Are they working through lunch? If so, that’s a separate issue to colleagues leaving early on a Friday.

Strumms

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

The op has confirmed that 2.5 hrs lunch is unpaid, and the op has no entitlement to be afforded that opportunity. The op is being paid for hrs worked.

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

And they don't have to be.

StefanFal

antix80 wrote: »

Look this whole "being present" thing is nonsense. It sounds like you work a 37.5 hour week with an unpaid hour for lunch.
If some of your colleagues are able to skive off for 2 hours on a Friday and still get paid it's because their workload permits it & yours doesn't. So, try to move out of the role/portfolio of clients you deal with when the opportunity arises. Til then, keep the head down and remember how lucky you are to have a job.

How lucky you are to have a job? Are we living in the 80s now?

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And they don't have to be.

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

It is often posted that you should only work the hours you are paid to work, that is what the op is doing.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

Which is why we have unions and as a result of unions, labour law.

I dunno about you but my boss would have me locked in a cupboard for 5 hours kip and then back to work if he could get away with it!

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Which is why we have unions and as a result of unions, labour law.

I dunno about you but my boss would have me locked in a cupboard for 5 hours kip and then back to work if he could get away with it!

You should complain to the Garda Commissioner if you are being overworked. But that is not what is happening to the op, he/she is being fully paid and is not working any hours beyond what he/she is being contracted to do.

joeguevara

Just to put things into perspective and to show how looking at colleagues as a benchmark is flawed, I Will share My experience from last week.

I was brought in by a financially regulated firm to do a central bank mandated review on fitness and probity. Fitness and probity is a relatively recent regulatory requirement that requires classes of employees to be competent, capable and financially sound to carry out their role. Part of this also includes the minimum competency code which mandates certain qualifications or working towards said qualifications, if carrying out certain roles.

As part of the review I had to go through every applicable employees contract to ensure that it included certain requirements from the above. While doing that it became clear that every employee had different perks and conditions. For instance out of the 20 or so financial advisors, there was considerable differences in annual leave, starting times, flexi times as well as some who had negotiated blocks of free time for varying reasons. The point of this is to show that comparing your working conditions to a different employee may look on the face appropriate but depending on what they have in their contract be chalk and cheese. Talk about strikes, work to rule, being self employed is crazy. At the end of the day it appears that you have a contract and must work to that notwithstanding if jimmy and paul leave 2 hours earlier on a Friday.

If you want change bring an alternative or a plan to the employer. Show what you’re achieving, how you can do it in an allotted time and show by leaving early it has no negative impact. Don’t raise others as an employer will see that as someone lacking innovation and requiring every perk that another employee may deserve.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

You should complain to the Garda Commissioner if you are being overworked. But that is not what is happening to the op, he/she is being fully paid and is not working any hours beyond what he/she is being contracted to do.

I said IF we didnt have unions and labour laws. That was my point and it was directed at another person

Weird thread. Just be available until 5.30 on a Friday. That's your job.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

Welcome to the real word where most salaried workers do more hours than in their contract, in fact my contract states that I should be expected to do extra hours if needed without payment during busy periods. My previous job had a similar contract as would the majorly of jobs in my sector of work.

On the other hand unlike the op I’d be out the door early like a shot on a quiet Friday afternoon.