Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Stormyteacup · 16-09-2020 10:42AM

kippy wrote: »

Why are people talking about Sweden?
Sweden did not "do nothing".

Only an idiot would suggest that if "nothing" was done (no social distancing, continue with the usual lack of handwashing, etc etc) we would have the same amount of deaths as we have now.

So then just handwashing, distancing, cough and sneeze etiquette (maybe masks) would result in similar death numbers in the 95% of people who sadly died with Covid?

Perhaps some of our restrictions were unnecessary and may have caused great damage that could have been avoided?

Okay with hindsight we didn’t know enough about Covid to find a balanced strategy for managing it.

We do now.

No excuse for continued, convoluted, nonsensical restrictions.

Time for the government to own up to their overreaction and start leading the country out of fear mode.

16-09-2020 10:45AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The classification of deaths is also skewing the figures.

Do we test for influenza in similar numbers to Covid?

I've never heard of anyone I know taking an influenza test.

Tony H himself admitted that many Covid deaths were notified as a Covid death without Covid being the cause of death

Everybody presenting to hospital with flu symptoms would get swabbed for flu. This is a standard A+E protocol. Makes a difference in treatment so for you to suggest otherwise is a bit insincere.

JDD · 16-09-2020 10:45AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

No need to talk about Sweden. There are many more countries which did even less than Sweden did. Like most of Africa for example. Surprisingly virus for some reason did not spread like wildfire all over the continent and there is also a lack of millions of dead Africans who do have even bigger lack of handwashing, etc etc.

Tell me this though. Since 92% of our deaths are in the 65+ age category, and the average life expectancy in Africa is 65, were we expecting a large amount of deaths in Africa?

16-09-2020 10:51AM

At least it is a bit clearer to see now that we are NOT planning to live with the virus.

Fear and restrictions remain with no end date in sight. Not living, surviving.

All due to a mild illness that can be dangerous in nursing homes.

Stormyteacup · 16-09-2020 10:51AM

hmmm wrote: »

This is the delusion thread, so happy for you to invent your own statistics - but there are not thousands of unrecorded Flu deaths which will allow you to feel better about thinking "Covid is like the Flu".

BTW there is quite careful monitoring of flu-like illness every year
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/

There is a lot of delusion about alright.

I’m not sure comparing flu and Covid is possible given the gaps in data we have for both.

However here’s an interesting stat - of the 1200 plus hospital admissions in paediatrics during flu season 18/19, 33% had been vaccinated.

One third of those children had been vaccinated and still ended up in hospital (not an anti-vaxxer btw, but a vaccine may not be the holy grail some are bunkered down waiting for).

Flu is less lethal for now but shouldn’t be dismissed as a serious illness with ‘long-flu’ effects widely known and accepted for years.

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 10:51AM

JDD wrote: »

Tell me this though. Since 92% of our deaths are in the 65+ age category, and the average life expectancy in Africa is 65, were we expecting a large amount of deaths in Africa?

Its killing those very near death. In Ireland life expectancy is 82, and the median age of death is 84.

Similar numbers adjusted for life expectancy would be seen in Africa.

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 10:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Everybody presenting to hospital with flu symptoms would get swabbed for flu. This is a standard A+E protocol. Makes a difference in treatment so for you to suggest otherwise is a bit insincere.

Most Covid deaths occurred in nursing homes.

Do they test everyone at the point of death for flu in nursing homes?

16-09-2020 10:57AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Most Covid deaths occurred in nursing homes.

Do they test everyone at the point of death for flu in nursing homes?

I said nothing about nursing home. It's not my area. I was referring to hospitals.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 11:11AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Most Covid deaths occurred in nursing homes.

Do they test everyone at the point of death for flu in nursing homes?

I would imagine so, for the death certificate they have to know what the person died of so I’d say a test would be required.

Zebra3 · 16-09-2020 11:53AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

We dont test for flu

We have no idea how many die from it

Its an educated guess

But we are being told on here that covid is three times more lethal than the flu!!!!

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 12:08PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

But we are being told on here that covid is three times more lethal than the flu!!!!

I haven't seen anyone saying that.

walus · 16-09-2020 12:17PM

hmmm wrote: »

Flu is about 0.01% - we lose about 200 to 500 people a year to Flu. The other thing about Flu is that we have some innate immunity, so only a relatively small percentage of the population will get it - whereas with Covid that is likely to be far higher. It's perfectly built to overwhelm hospitals.

I'm afraid flu (influenza) goes from 0.1 to 0.3 % depending on a year. It is also far more dangerous to kids than covid transpires to be. Generally speaking an outbreak of influenza can add up to 1-1.5 month of excess deaths in a given year. For Ireland it is 2-3.5k additional deaths. This happened in the past and will happen again, we just learned to live with it. So no lockdowns and all that circus.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 12:21PM

The health system is built to deal with the flu cases that come every winter, it's not built to deal with those flu cases plus another load of covid patients on top. So it seems to me that we have to try and prevent that from happening.

walus · 16-09-2020 12:22PM

kippy wrote: »

Anyone equating covid to regular flu needs to look at the videos coming out of Italy in March and April.

This not an evidence. These are anecdotes. One could easily produce the same for flu, pneumonia and the likes. How do you think people die of other respiratory diseases?

pjohnson · 16-09-2020 12:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least it is a bit clearer to see now that we are NOT planning to live with the virus.

Fear and restrictions remain with no end date in sight. Not living, surviving.

All due to a mild illness that can be dangerous in nursing homes.

:pac:

Why did you lot seem to think "live with the virus" means "live and just ignore the virus".

A large amount of people appear to have not understood the word "with"

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 12:25PM

You'd have to wonder what they thought it would look like alright. We're a bit better off than I was expecting, I was dreading another full lockdown during flu season.

Multipass · 16-09-2020 12:29PM

If it’s already been discussed here I apologise, missed it.
I’ve just seen on the news that Dr Feeley has resigned, and I’m horrified.
The hysteria has become so political that challenging it is a resigning offence? Since when have doctors been required to have a consensus, medicine doesn’t work that way - ideas and convention should always be able to be challenged. We’ve collectively gone mad, this is ridiculous. I’m scared of the direction society is going, the danger goes far beyond any mild respiratory virus which is moderately dangerous to the elderly.

Zebra3 · 16-09-2020 12:30PM

MadYaker wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone saying that.

Post #5198

Penfailed wrote: »

So if flu is less than 0.1%, Covid is at least 2.5 to 3.7 times more deadly. There's one or two posters on here that claim it's the same or not as bad as the flu.

Captain_Crash · 16-09-2020 12:32PM

Multipass wrote: »

I’ve just seen on the news that Dr Feeley has resigned, and I’m horrified.

Yet Donnelly, who turned up yesterday to a press conference while ill wont be under any pressure to. Thankfully it wasn't covid, but he didn't know that when he left his house.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 12:35PM

Multipass wrote: »

If it’s already been discussed here I apologise, missed it.
I’ve just seen on the news that Dr Feeley has resigned, and I’m horrified.
The hysteria has become so political that challenging it is a resigning offence? Since when have doctors been required to have a consensus, medicine doesn’t work that way - ideas and convention should always be able to be challenged. We’ve collectively gone mad, this is ridiculous. I’m scared of the direction society is going, the danger goes far beyond any mild respiratory virus which is moderately dangerous to the elderly.

The only hysteria is in your head I'm afraid. There is a difference between going against the scientific consensus (usually includes research to back it up) and deliberately spreading nonsense ideas that have already been proven to be false.

16-09-2020 12:38PM

pjohnson wrote: »

:pac:

Why did you lot seem to think "live with the virus" means "live and just ignore the virus".

A large amount of people appear to have not understood the word "with"

The word LIVE was specifically used. Not survive.

Nobody suggested ignoring the virus. You made that up yourself.

Multipass · 16-09-2020 12:38PM

MadYaker wrote: »

The only hysteria is in your head I'm afraid. There is a difference between going against the scientific consensus (usually includes research to back it up) and deliberately spreading nonsense ideas that have already been proven to be false.

Yeah this is exactly what I’m talking about. Sinister times.

pjohnson · 16-09-2020 12:40PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The word LIVE was specifically used. Not survive.

Nobody suggested ignoring the virus. You made that up yourself.

Why would "survive" be used? Unless the government had lost it and gone totally hysterical then the correct word would be live.

_Kaiser_ · 16-09-2020 12:43PM

MadYaker wrote: »

The only hysteria is in your head I'm afraid. There is a difference between going against the scientific consensus (usually includes research to back it up) and deliberately spreading nonsense ideas that have already been proven to be false.

So the guy should be brow-beaten into resigning for having a different opinion then?

There is no final evidence yet as to whether he's right or not although certainly the demographics of those who get (significantly) sick or die would suggest he has a point. It'll only be when this is finally all over and the inevitable inquires and Tribunals follow that we'll know what approaches were right.

16-09-2020 12:44PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Why would "survive" be used? Unless the government had lost it and gone totally hysterical then the correct word would be live.

No, survive is more appropriate.

There are heavy restrictions even in level 1 and the plan is for 9 months and obviously way longer if no vaccine.

And level 1 must be impossible to get to if counties with very little Covid don’t qualify.

Allinall · 16-09-2020 12:46PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Yet Donnelly, who turned up yesterday to a press conference while ill wont be under any pressure to. Thankfully it wasn't covid, but he didn't know that when he left his house.

Was he I’ll when he left his house?

pjohnson · 16-09-2020 12:46PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, survive is more appropriate.

There are heavy restrictions even in level 1 and the plan is for 9 months and obviously way longer if no vaccine.

And level 1 must be impossible to get to if counties with very little Covid don’t qualify.

Really, Are you sure you are looking at the right plan?

dalyboy · 16-09-2020 12:47PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Why would "survive" be used? Unless the government had lost it and gone totally hysterical then the correct word would be live.

Maybe “exist” with the virus would have been more appropriate. This proposal is certainly NOT living

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 12:50PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So the guy should be brow-beaten into resigning for having a different opinion then?

There is no final evidence yet as to whether he's right or not although certainly the demographics of those who get (significantly) sick or die would suggest he has a point. It'll only be when this is finally all over and the inevitable inquires and Tribunals follow that we'll know what approaches were right.

No people shouldn't be brow beaten into resigning for having a different opinion. However he was promoting ideas such as letting the virus spread freely amongst young people to achieve herd immunity. He also suggested that we may be almost there already which is absolute nonsense. We have no idea if that's even possible so it's not a safe course of action, especially when you consider the state of our health service.

If this guy wanted to challenge the science we are basing our approach on there is a proper procedure by which that can be done. He didn't do that. What he did was go off on one promoting and suggesting a course of action which was already examined as a possibility and then dismissed way back when this all began.

pjohnson · 16-09-2020 12:51PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Maybe “exist” with the virus would have been more appropriate. This proposal is certainly NOT living

Somewhat true. This proposal IS living WITH the virus.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings