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New rules from Revenue?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Encouraging to hear. I did apply for a licence around the time of the centrefire pistol ban, for a Norinco m14 clone. The dreadful (zero manners, down right rude and completely against any firearms ownership) chief super said basically over his dead body. He was one of the old school, and who like the priests and Bishops, thought their position in society meant the rules didn't apply to them, they were above all that.

    Yip.Been there,seen that,done it,bought the Tshirt stand with some of these "public servants" who had enough concrete between their ears to balance the brass on their shoulders.:mad:
    Even their own men admitted to me later on when they had retired from AGS that they were considerd utter arrogant donkeys that were despised by their own rank and file in the stations,and one beauty that I had to deal with, even turned around an interview report and blatentedly LIED to the DOJ on a dealership application,which I found and still have in a Freedom of Info request.Worse he did all this in front of a witness at the interview.

    He finally hung himself in court in a case in Kerry where he stated under oath that he didn't consider anyone civillian capable or fitting to own ANY type of firearm,and if he had it his way he would revoke all liscenses in his district.:eek:
    That went down very well with the Kerry judge,who was also peed off with the AGS expert witness continously reading from Janes Infantry Weapons...And not having much in his head on the subject.:rolleyes:

    I encountered none of that to be honest.

    The Gardai I dealt with were very polite and efficient. The Chief Super had the local Garda Sergeant phone me and ask me a couple of questions to clarify one or two points and I'd no problem with that. Everything else was grand.


    I'm very glad to hear that a lot of money,blood,sweat and tears and fustration,not to mind sleepless nights,and wracked nerves,of court cases and appearences by so many people finally did pay off that you got some proper and civilised service,as it should have been from the start.:):)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Even their own men admitted to me later on when they had retired from AGS that they were considerd utter arrogant donkeys that were despised by their own rank and file in the stations,and one beauty that I had to deal with, even turned around an interview report and blatentedly LIED to the DOJ on a dealership application,which I found and still have in a Freedom of Info request.Worse he did all this in front of a witness at the interview.

    Yes, in fairness, the junior garda who sat in on the interview was mortified, i'd have felt sorry for him if i wasn't so pre-occupied with keeping my temper under control with the other throwback. Wouldn't shake my hand when i entered the room or left, kept referring to the rifle as "Dis yoke", asked me did i think i was Rambo, or Dirty Harry. Would not answer a question directly, but communicated in grunts. In the end i said this is over, good luck. By this stage he was barely acknowledging i was in the room. Of course i didn't get my cert.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Surname didnt start with a" K" did it?:rolleyes:.Sounds exactly like the same donkey I had to deal with..

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Surname didnt start with a" K" did it?:rolleyes:.Sounds exactly like the same donkey I had to deal with..

    I cannot remember now, never want to set eyes on the fcuker again either. We all meet people in life we disagree with, it doesn't mean we have to be rude or objectionable to them. Civility costs nothing.

    Lads tell me the new chief super, who is a woman, is very much fairer, pleasant to deal with, and polite.

    The guards were like the church, they needed a good clean out, and to be reminded they are not a law unto themselves.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    They are not, in effect, banned.

    I had no issues whatsoever in getting a licence for one. And neither did other target shooters I know.
    I've mentioned before that there is no ban, but it is "coming" (their words, not mine).

    This is the key point of all this. There is no ban right now, today, or even tomorrow for that matter. The "ban" is a threat of one that will be coming at an unspecified date. For a while after it was announced it was worrisome but that "fear" subsided after a few years. Then roll on the new Commissioner's updated guidelines in Sept 2018 and in it he says:
    Issuing persons and applicants alike should be mindful that, on 18th September 2015, the Minister for Justice and Equality announced that any new restricted firearm certificates for centre fire semi-automatic rifles, granted between that date and the enactment of proposed legislation banning the future licensing of these types of firearms, shall stand revoked.

    Now i completely agree that a defacto ban without any legislation is no ban, but you don't put this piece into your guidelines unless they intend to address it at some point in the future. It means that anyone with a license for such a firearm between Sept 2015 and present will have their license revoked.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    Cass wrote: »
    I've mentioned before that there is no ban, but it is "coming" (their words, not mine).

    This is the key point of all this. There is no ban right now, today, or even tomorrow for that matter. The "ban" is a threat of one that will be coming at an unspecified date. For a while after it was announced it was worrisome but that "fear" subsided after a few years. Then roll on the new Commissioner's updated guidelines in Sept 2018 and in it he says:



    Now i completely agree that a defacto ban without any legislation is no ban, but you don't put this piece into your guidelines unless they intend to address it at some point in the future. It means that anyone with a license for such a firearm between Sept 2015 and present will have their license revoked.

    Politics Cass, for the Garda Commissioner the Minister for Justice is the hand that feeds him. He’s definitely going to lick it, not bite it. Speculation about potential future law is exactly that, speculation. It may or may not rain tomorrow, the Commissioner has his umbrella ready anyway...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Why ban the centrefire semi's ? Like the pistols, they are out there, whats the issue ? How many people were shot with CF pistols ? A big fat zero afaik. Whats the problem with the rifles ? How many crimes have they been used in ? Again i'll wager zero. They might be banned if there is another case like the shooting of the innocent chap in Limerick by gangland scumbags, cynically used by hob goblin Ahern.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Politics Cass,.
    Good point, well made.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    @ tudderone - Virtue signalling. To be seen to be addressing crime by attacking the only section of society that is armed but completely controllable and traceable.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    I think the initial fear was like the CF pistols.It was going to go from zero to 1500 plus within 12 months or weeks. This hasn't happened, there are less than 200 in total in the entire 26 counties sofar in a 18 year period.Proably due to numerous factors,this self imposed ban being one of them,and the belif that they are ultra difficult to liscense as restricted firearms.Not to mind they aren't exactly cheap firearms in comparison to whats out there with less liscensing hassle.
    I would still ASSume that it is a tipping point number before they act on this SI,if ever.
    Still I wouldn't invest a fortune in one anymore,if there is a chance of these being confiscated. Be a bastard to spend 3or 4 thousand on some decent kit,to have our oppressors swipe it.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Why ban the centrefire semi's ? Like the pistols, they are out there, whats the issue ? How many people were shot with CF pistols ? A big fat zero afaik. Whats the problem with the rifles ? How many crimes have they been used in ? Again i'll wager zero. They might be banned if there is another case like the shooting of the innocent chap in Limerick by gangland scumbags, cynically used by hob goblin Ahern.

    It was also a different era too in our ways of thinking.We were still cowed and apprenhensive,if not downright niave and utter Fudds on alot of things. Be a different story today now with our rampant gun crime and the fact full auto AKs and Polish sMGs are available on our streets as well as better knowledge of our legislation on national and EU level,as well as precedent cases,that it would be a slighty different story to do.

    Why this fudge of legislation?Frannie was trying to be all things to all men ,like any politican does. Keep AGS happy,while trying to extract their sensitive bits from the multiple bear traps they had stuck them in.
    Like dodgy DUI tests,arresting politicans leaving the Dail,dodgy comissioners and thir assistant commish on the make and take,with the rot in the top brass,and the brotherhood of Templemore having a bit too much play in doing CYA of those who screw up.So much that you have to look outside Ireland to get a untainted person to clean house ,and an utter farsce of a PULSE system,as well as a hamfisted gun grab

    And keep the voters happy who put you there,and have these guns and could take this further legally if you try an outright ban,and who have fought like legal Commanches and now the entire tribe is on the warpath,because your police force has tried to ban stuff that they dont like,that even being guns that have been zero problems for decades,because their clown in cheif in Ballistics has got his job on the line thru his utter incompetence in every court case lost,and is considerd a joke of an expert both in court,by his own people in his dept and by the legal profession repersenting shooters and is now grabbing at straws to redeem himself.:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Cass wrote: »
    Now i completely agree that a defacto ban without any legislation is no ban, but you don't put this piece into your guidelines unless they intend to address it at some point in the future. It means that anyone with a license for such a firearm between Sept 2015 and present will have their license revoked.

    I'll be seeing them in court if that's the case so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,182 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    Well fair play to the guard.

    Finding a possible loophole and making sure every criminal in the country knows about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Well fair play to the guard.

    Finding a possible loophole and making sure every criminal in the country knows about it.

    They can now arm themselves with expensive inert pieces of plastic?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,182 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    Chiparus wrote: »
    They can now arm themselves with expensive inert pieces of plastic?


    It creates a loophole a precedent which could be used to fight other similar - but not necessarily exactly the same - cases.



    Do you know what "inert" actually means? Can you give me the name of any components of a gun (not the ammunition) which is not inert?
    I can buy a 3D printer and print my own gun out of inert plastic and I think most reasonable people would agree that there would need to be laws against open possession of such items. Inert is irrelevant.


    In reality the only likely effect might be that the law would be changed


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ jb88


    In relation to the importing of parts for a rifle, I sent two ASE Mods to the UK back in January and had to get an RFD'S import permit in order to get them back from the UK?
    I have licences for both MODS on seperate firearms but yet my RFD still recommended an import permit.

    I think the recent changes to the legislation with respect to having to number all main parts of a firearm,not just the receiver as was always the case have made it more difficult for individuals to get what they want.
    SOME RFD's wanted this in order to profit from it are further eroding the quality of firearms and resulting competency of individuals to get the top quality kit they need in order to shoot and compete which simply is just not available in Ireland.
    Most will say, "thems the rules", abide by them.

    By that inference the uncle mikes screws I want from the UK need a part number and an import permit.

    Realistically 90% of what I want in relation to firearms just isnt available in the Republic of Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    It creates a loophole a precedent which could be used to fight other similar - but not necessarily exactly the same - cases.



    Do you know what "inert" actually means? Can you give me the name of any components of a gun (not the ammunition) which is not inert?
    I can buy a 3D printer and print my own gun out of inert plastic and I think most reasonable people would agree that there would need to be laws against open possession of such items. Inert is irrelevant.


    In reality the only likely effect might be that the law would be changed
    Definition Inert lacking the power to move
    2: very slow to move or act : SLUGGISH
    3: deficient in active properties
    especially : lacking a usual or anticipated chemical or biological action

    So that would actually be the entire firearm itself as it is an inert object that needs human input to make it function.

    Love to see the legislation for 3d printers,and the dark web that will be effective.As well as the persons face and hands once they fire the first"all plastic firearm with a normal load!":eek::D

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Well fair play to the guard.

    Finding a possible loophole and making sure every criminal in the country knows about it.

    Yes i am sure the Dundons and Kinahans will be cock-a-hoop that they can now buy target stocks for their ak47's and glocks :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Love to see the legislation for 3d printers,and the dark web that will be effective.As well as the persons face and hands once they fire the first"all plastic firearm with a normal load!":eek::D

    Eventually 3d printers will be good enough to do this. I'd say they aren't too far off that capability at the moment. I actually reckon we will end up 3d printing our food at some point in the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Well fair play to the guard.

    Finding a possible loophole and making sure every criminal in the country knows about it.

    What loophole are you talking about?

    The guard in question has a licence for his firearms, therefore he has a legitimate need for those parts.

    Associates of Mr. Kinihan and Mr. Hutch most likely don't have licences for their firearms.

    I've no problem with customs intercepting gun part deliveries but they should release them when the recipient shows them a copy of his licence. They didn't release the parts in this case even though he proved to them that he had a licence so I don't blame the Garda for taking his case further.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    jb88 wrote: »
    In relation to the importing of parts for a rifle, I sent two ASE Mods to the UK back in January and had to get an RFD'S import permit in order to get them back from the UK?
    I have licences for both MODS on seperate firearms but yet my RFD still recommended an import permit.

    I think the recent changes to the legislation with respect to having to number all main parts of a firearm,not just the receiver as was always the case have made it more difficult for individuals to get what they want.
    SOME RFD's wanted this in order to profit from it are further eroding the quality of firearms and resulting competency of individuals to get the top quality kit they need in order to shoot and compete which simply is just not available in Ireland.
    Most will say, "thems the rules", abide by them.

    By that inference the uncle mikes screws I want from the UK need a part number and an import permit.

    Realistically 90% of what I want in relation to firearms just isnt available in the Republic of Ireland.

    Two simple explanations there
    1] You are dealing with the UK [God knows why!] with anything firearm related,and they are completely anal with their own and doubly so with us Paddies on that issue still.

    2] Your RFD is screwing you over on not knowing the legislation! He "recommended" you to get the import permits... Really?Ask him to show you in the legislation in future where it says silencers must be import liscensed when sent abroad for repair. And also where it says in the legislation that all firearm transactions within the EU must be to a dealer? Technically said; you can get the complete gun deliverd to your door under the EU legislation once you have the liscense and import permit.

    The pressure bearing parts that are listed in EU and now Irish legislation,and need to be marked by law you can order the same way,but the supplier,lets say in this case Brownells Germany will only ship them to a dealer or gunsmith,as they need to be marked in the end users country[Ireland] with your parent firearms numbers. Thasts the ONLY place a Irish gundealer/smith comes into the equation by law these days.

    So go right ahead and order up any and all other parts that you need,as you are entitled to own and hold them with your firearms cert.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Eventually 3d printers will be good enough to do this. I'd say they aren't too far off that capability at the moment. I actually reckon we will end up 3d printing our food at some point in the future.

    They already are!! !But they are;
    About 100thousand dollars.Are container sized items and weight.
    Are exclusively Uncle Sams property used to reprint armour and vechicle parts for APCs anf MBTs in the field.
    Have a classified rating on the metallic sinter mixture for said parts.
    Still cant print gun barrells that last....Yet.

    Food without a doubt.But i think that will be our great great grandkids doing that .Or they'll be back hunting it with spears and clubs.:eek:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    They already are!! !But they are;
    About 100thousand dollars.Are container sized items and weight.
    Are exclusively Uncle Sams property used to reprint armour and vechicle parts for APCs anf MBTs in the field.
    Have a classified rating on the metallic sinter mixture for said parts.
    Still cant print gun barrells that last....Yet.

    Food without a doubt.But i think that will be our great great grandkids doing that .Or they'll be back hunting it with spears and clubs.:eek:

    Yeah, but technology progresses pretty fast. And the speed of progress is accelerating. I don't think we have as long to wait as you reckon.

    I actually think self-drive cars are going to be old hat very quickly. Self-fly drones is where it will be at. Why drive when you can fly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,182 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    tudderone wrote: »
    Yes i am sure the Dundons and Kinahans will be cock-a-hoop that they can now buy target stocks for their ak47's and glocks :rolleyes:




    It's not about them buying them - it could still come into it if they are caught in possession of them or similar components


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,182 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Definition Inert lacking the power to move
    2: very slow to move or act : SLUGGISH
    3: deficient in active properties
    especially : lacking a usual or anticipated chemical or biological action

    So that would actually be the entire firearm itself as it is an inert object that needs human input to make it function.

    Love to see the legislation for 3d printers,and the dark web that will be effective.As well as the persons face and hands once they fire the first"all plastic firearm with a normal load!":eek::D




    That's exactly my point. Arguing that something is, in and of itself, made of inert material, is not a justification for not controlling it. As I mentioned, and you also pointed out, the gun itself is "inert"


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Well genius. It's not about them buying them - it will be if they are caught in possession of them or similar components

    You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,182 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?




    More like you can only see your own blinkered position and can't understand the possible consequences of things. It might be more where your own head is stuck rather than actual blinkers though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    Don’t feed the troll 😉


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    More like you can only see your own blinkered position and can't understand the possible consequences of things. It might be more where your own head is stuck rather than actual blinkers though.

    What consequences are you talking about? I very much doubt that criminals are buying target stocks from legal sources. But if they are, then by all means have customs confiscate them. But why confiscate gun parts from a licenced firearm owner even after he shows you his licence? That doesn't make sense.

    There's an easy fix for customs. Keep hold of the gun parts until the recipient shows the licence. If the recipient doesn't have a licence for the gun that those gun parts go onto, then either dispose of them or do a controlled delivery and arrest the recipient upon delivery. Simples.

    Apologies if I am wrong on this but you seem to want to treat licenced firearms owners the same as you would treat criminals.

    There's a big difference between the two. One is legally allowed to own firearms and is licenced to do so, the other is a fcuking scumbag who isn't allowed to own firearms.

    So, licenced firearms owners need to be able to replace parts on their guns, make improvements etc. How do you expect them to do that if they can't get those parts in Ireland? Here's the answer, they get them from abroad. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

    Why should the Garda in this case be penalised for getting a stock from abroad when he would be perfectly entitled to get the same stock from a local dealer here in Ireland if he had one in his inventory?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,434 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    That's exactly my point. Arguing that something is, in and of itself, made of inert material, is not a justification for not controlling it. As I mentioned, and you also pointed out, the gun itself is "inert"

    So by going by this logic we had better contol everything inert,as it can be mad active by human interaction...:rolleyes:
    Well genius. It's not about them buying them - it could still come into it if they are caught in possession of them or similar components

    Yeahhh...The few Ks of controlled drugs and the full auto sMG and a few hundred grand in cash are going to pale into insignificance against that airsoft AR stock in the corner??? Doesn't quite work that way.:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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