Second Captains Part II

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946775#Comment_121946775

Would I prefer Rafa Benitez than Duff? Yes very much so.

dulpit

Surely if you have the players for such a short period of time, a good tactician is vital? Man management isn't as big a deal, you'll have the players for what? 10 days at most?

halfpastneverr

We've not learned a thing from the shambles of Staunton's reign if people think giving O'Shea the job is a good idea. No management experience at all and parachuted in as national team manager based on 'passion' and having a good playing career. No thanks. At least Stan won his first match too!

Someone dull with a good bit of managerial experience at decent club or senior international level and the ability to make tactical adjustments on the fly is required to mop up the mess Kenny has left us in. O'Shea may be a lovely lad or whatever, but he doesn't have that ability yet anyway. If its a toss up between Poyet & O'Shea, then Poyet all the way. He'll do it for a box of tracksuits too, I hear!

Arghus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946775#Comment_121946775

A big criticism that was always there against Kenny was that he hadn't got the required managerial experience at the level - Duff has even less, considerably less.

All of things you've said about Duff being able to set a team up, making players better, definitely caring - rewind the clock back and these were exactly the same things that were said about Kenny. And there was more evidence to back it up then than what currently exists for Duff.

Kenny had a more impressive managerial CV coming with him when he was given the job - so you think the right idea is to replace him with a guy who has even less experience? How does that make sense?

BTW, I wasn't opposed to Kenny getting the job. I think he deserved a shot and I'm not saying Duff will never make it as a manager, but he hasn't done enough, for me, to be realistically in the conversation to the be the next manager at this moment in time. Things can change.

I guess the question of passion or tactics is a bit of a false dichotomy. Kenny had passion, loads of it, but he wasn't up to it tactically. It'd be great to get someone who'd get your blood pumping, but, at this stage we need more than that. I'd rather take a competent tactician tbh at this point.

Tucker.Tim

Unpopular opinion but I enjoy Gerry Thornley’s passion for the sport he covers. More listenable than he’s given credit for because he sounds like he’s stepped off the pages of a Ross O’Carroll Kelly book.

siblers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947213#Comment_121947213

He's like the polar opposite of Paul Kimmage, he's incredibly knowledgeable to be fair but it probably gets a bit buried under his enthusiasm, I do enjoy listening to him though but I imagine he could be kinda exhausting to work with, he's quite intense with his enthusiasm

Leslie Purkiss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947213#Comment_121947213

Total fanboy. I have suspicions he is on the payroll of World Rugby / IRFU / player’s agents.

Tucker.Tim

I’d get those suspicions checked by a medical professional if I were you

The idea of James Ryan having a direct debit to Gerry Thornley to say nice things about him on a niche podcast or in a newspaper with ever diminishing readership is a great idea for a skit, though

Jack9b

Not really sure what to make of Ken's discussion yesterday on the Stephen Reid situation with the referee in the Forest vs. Liverpool game. He seemed to trivialise the verbal abuse when Second Captains themselves regularly promote the difficulties that referees face at all levels of the sport. If I recall correctly one of their episodes a couple of years ago had an amateur referee on as a guest talking about why he was forced to give up refereeing as a result of the ongoing abuse.

I'm fully aware of the fact that referees will always be a lightning rod for abuse and this won't change unless there is an entire paradigm shift. However, from the point of view of what Second Captains are discussing, I think they should be consistent in their view of condemning abuse of referees whenever it happens, no matter the context.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948619#Comment_121948619

They are consistent in their illogical approach to the whole thing. We need to reduce pressure on referees and subsequent abuse, but lets also spend 30% of our football shows discussing refereeing decisions.

Jack9b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948630#Comment_121948630

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately it's widespread now, look at Sky Sports having Mike Dean on co-commentary for some games. More and more attention is being drawn to referees which just increases the level of scrutiny directed at them. Mistakes have always been a part of refereeing, increasing the focus on these mistakes isn't changing anything. It's just making a difficult job even more difficult. While probably seen as an inconsequential comment from Ken, it just further adds to the acceptance that any abuse towards referees is justified.

atilladehun

While i agree that all of football is inconsistent about talking about reffing there is something seriously wrong with reffing at the professional level. Its run as a closed shop with very little transparency and the comparisons with other professional games around the world are stark. We cant just say respect the ref a the time when the refs don't respect the game.

It is true that the attitudes flow into the amateur game but there's also great refs and great participants there. Higher standards are needed everywhere and that requires people talking and thinking about the game not just saying don't talk about reffing because of abuse.

atilladehun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946778#Comment_121946778

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947202#Comment_121947202

We cant afford Rafa benitez so he's not a viable name in the conversation. We can't afford pretty much any of the top 150 managers in the world. We're buying a small house down the country, no point looking at mansions in the city.

Im not all in on duff but no matter who we get they will be flawed. If we got duff and a good tactical assistant then i think it would be a good appointment. If we got someone who was cold but good tactically then I'd hope they get a good man to man. Whoever we get they're going to be flawed and will require a really good team around them because we're not in the market for any of the top people.

The conversation around a new manager has no logic. Argentina's world cup winning manager had barely any experience. Kenny dalgliesh, guardiola, Zidane all did great with their first jobs, granted with great players. Listening to the overlap with Les Ferdinand, that lad Beale did great at his first job in QPR before declining at rangers and Sunderland.

There's a bit of emotional alchemy with management, if the liles of collins, cullen, Ferguson and omabamadele think duff, or whoever, is amazing then that goes a long way.

Jack9b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948924#Comment_121948924

No doubt that the professional refereeing is seriously underwhelming. Given that VAR was brought in as an assistance measure and referees are still getting decisions wrong has shown that the standards are even worse than originally believed. I think the discourse should shift to why these mistakes are happening rather than hammering the referees for these decisions. Refereeing absolutely needs to be discussed and talked about but the way in which media approaches the subject must be changed if things are to improve. It's a double edged sword though given that every one of us watches sport for the sporting aspect, not the refereeing aspect so it's difficult to assign much time to it without talking about what they've gotten wrong again for the umpteenth time.

Taking a more realistic view, referees will always be the villains and subject to derision from various sets of fans. It's unfortunately part of it. Who would be a ref!

atilladehun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948985#Comment_121948985

Yeah, its a mad career choice!

Yep better discourse is absolutely needed, unfortunately it feels futile while the current cohort are running the show.

Tucker.Tim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948619#Comment_121948619

I mean he covered it because it was f**king hilarious

Can we not criticise every bit of levity in our daily sports talk show, thanks

Jack9b

Only pointing it out because it goes against everything they've promoted so far about referees. Can't really have it both ways. For sure I can see how it was funny given the Irish connection etc. but it doesn't help in the grand scheme of reducing abuse towards referees.

padd b1975

US Murph prattling on about a woman's basketball player no one in Ireland has ever heard of better be as niche as it it gets.

Tucker.Tim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950929#Comment_121950929

What?

They’ve been deeply cynical about the behaviour of PGMOL and how pally serving members are with oil states that own teams and ex-referees employed by other teams and distrust it all helps breed. They’ve been highly critical of VAR and refereeing so I don’t know where you got the idea they were holding them up like untouchable precious faberge eggs before Ken found a batshit story about a poorly written refereeing report where Steven Reid called a referee a c**t a half dozen times.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951540#Comment_121951540

yeah I’m a bit baffled myself. I don’t see second captains as paragons of respect for officialdom

siblers

..

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951438#Comment_121951438

You've never heard of her. Anyone with a passing interest in US sports would have heard of her the last couple of years.

Ol' Donie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951672#Comment_121951672

And anyone who hasn't heard of her might like to hear the big stories in US sports at the moment?

cheese sandwich

Good chat with Tom Vaughan Lawlor today, although the homeless World Cup movie doesnt sound very interesting. Apparently the Rose Dugdale film is worth a watch

Ol' Donie

I don't know why it popped into my head earlier, but I miss Ken's The Fair View.

That should come back the odd time.

padd b1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951754#Comment_121951754

I lasted right up until the comparisons with Jordan started.

Not for me.

Smell the glove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952581#Comment_121952581

One of my favourite ever segments that they've done through the years.

Sultan of Bling

The fair view was brilliant

Ol' Donie

Just going back to the Pavlovian reactions to the audiobeds from a couple of weeks ago.

I was standing outside a church after a funeral recently waiting to offer my condolences to the family. I was just standing there, but I was thinking about Frank Lampard and Harry Reknapp.

I suddenly became aware of this and asked myself why the f*ck I was thinking about those blokes at a time like this.

Obviously I shortly realised they played Pie Jesu at the end of the ceremony.

Tucker.Tim

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0330/1440877-report-poyet-offered-rejected-ireland-job-this-week/

Go on, someone defend the joke shop that is the FAI that are so incompetent they can’t even close a deal for a Poyet level manager after deciding to go for him and namelessly announcing he’d be unveiled over a month in advance.

Big Trainee John looks like he’s going to get the job by complete default. We’ve spent from June 2023 when it was obvious even to the FAI that Kenny was cooked until April 2024 to find the fùcking guy who was Kenny’s assistant. Jesus wept.