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1967 VW Variant.

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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    2 down 2 to go


  • Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭ outfox
    Registered User


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    I think it's a left over from the previous owner :D

    I just read Kadman's post again about bringing the sand from the coast.
    Boy did I completely get that one wrong.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Second 2 plugs out. All came out without serious hassle.

    Plug condition is ok, number 4 has a slight oil residue on the plug.

    So at the moment if there is an engine issue, its possibly a broken oil control
    ring on number 4.

    Next thing is a charged battery a long crank to get oil around the rings and pistons,

    and then a compression test


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,936 ✭✭✭ SmartinMartin
    Registered User


    Can I suggest videos of each stage and post them up? Would make a great YouTube series.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭ John.G
    Registered User


    kadman wrote: »
    Here is the full pressed steel floor of the type 3.
    And as you can see the central spine is not visible as the floor pan is a single complete pressed panel.
    here is one i prepared earlier,

    ghkrWKW.jpg

    For comparison/interest attached is a scan from my 1956 Beetle instruction Manual.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,493 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose
    Registered User


    I think when it's restored and running around, Kadman should offer a ride to Alfa Beta and Alfa Beta's Mom. I bet herself would love it. Put a few chestnuts in the glove box!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Quick update.

    Got all the plugs out , installed battery and turned key....nothing. Quick investigation around the dash area revealed the following.
    2 aircraft switches installed just below the dash??

    One switch turns on the ignition and oil lights.
    Other switch activavtes the starter circuit, which dims only.
    This says that power is getting to the solenoid, and its consuming power by dimming
    There fore either the starter is seized and consuming power trying to turn,
    or faulty solenoid. Either is easily rectified.

    But I need my high scissor lift to get at it, I am way too old for lying in the yard:) If I lay down I might not get up:D

    I think I might leave the aircraft switches in, as it was a cool 50 year old workaround, and is still functioning.

    So just to give you a few pics....

    This shows how solid the floorpan is

    aIPGL7B.jpg

    Jacking point is still solid but full of sand

    Shr8Crx.jpg

    Original german 67 exhaust, still solid. And the rear
    valance normally takes a beating, but here its basically unmarked,

    OZwUr8R.jpg

    And a working water chute to eliminate water from building up under the rear wings, still surviving is unheard of.
    It still opens and closes freely, and has the original flap rubber.

    7bfKjZp.jpg


    And last but not least a glimpse into the engine. very very clean for 53 years

    old,

    eCXiTwf.jpg

    WZirfNR.jpg

    Luvverly, jubbly:D


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Igotadose wrote: »
    I think when it's restored and running around, Kadman should offer a ride to Alfa Beta and Alfa Beta's Mom. I bet herself would love it. Put a few chestnuts in the glove box!

    Offer was made the day it was collected:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭ ratracer
    Registered User


    kadman wrote: »
    Quick update.

    Got all the plugs out , installed battery and turned key....nothing. Quick investigation around the dash area revealed the following.
    2 aircraft switches installed just below the dash??

    One switch turns on the ignition and oil lights.
    Other switch activavtes the starter circuit, which dims only.
    This says that power is getting to the solenoid, and its consuming power by dimming
    There fore either the starter is seized and consuming power trying to turn,
    or faulty solenoid. Either is easily rectified.


    I think I might leave the aircraft switches in, as it was a cool 50 year old workaround, and is still functioning.
    :D

    I got a right chuckle reading this post! I remember back in the late 80’s my dad had a Renault 18. I can’t remember if he lost the key or broke it in the ignition, but rather than replace the ignition barrel he did the exact same as above and had two toggle switches on the centre console for the ignition and to start the car. He used to cover them over with a motorists prayer card so they couldn’t be seen when the car was parked up!!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Can I suggest videos of each stage and post them up? Would make a great YouTube series.


    Thats the plan as soon as I can get a working starter, which wont happen until I can get it on my scissor lift which will be tomorrow.:)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,634 ✭✭✭ zilog_jones
    Registered User


    Great to see some progress with this.

    Was it determined why the car was originally parked up? Or did it just become surplus to requirements at some point?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭ saabsaab
    Registered User


    Great to see some progress with this.

    Was it determined why the car was originally parked up? Or did it just become surplus to requirements at some point?


    Probably rustproofed when laid up. Looks great, could you turn over the engine with a spanner? Se if it turns anyway.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Probably rustproofed when laid up. Looks great, could you turn over the engine with a spanner? Se if it turns anyway.

    Not sure exactly why the car was laid up. And on initial inspections of the engine, it has not become apparent yet as to the cause.

    Compression test will tell loads. It will tell if the pistons and heads can provide enough compression to actually start this engine.

    If there is compression, then its down to fuel delivery and spark. Simples.
    As soon as I get it on the lift, I will lift out the starter, clean and check it.

    I know the power to the starter circuit works ok.

    Engine is turning ok, with no stiff spots in the turning.

    So far things are still looking ok.

    There is no power to the automatic chokes, not even leads. And the electromagnetic fuel jets on the right hand carb do not have a power source either, which is unusual.

    Unless of course the jet is set to manual working by the slotted screw. Something I have not checked on the jet body yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,715 ✭✭✭ jmreire
    Registered User


    kadman wrote: »
    Not sure exactly why the car was laid up. And on initial inspections of the engine, it has not become apparent yet as to the cause.

    Compression test will tell loads. It will tell if the pistons and heads can provide enough compression to actually start this engine.

    If there is compression, then its down to fuel delivery and spark. Simples.
    As soon as I get it on the lift, I will lift out the starter, clean and check it.

    I know the power to the starter circuit works ok.

    Engine is turning ok, with no stiff spots in the turning.

    So far things are still looking ok.

    There is no power to the automatic chokes, not even leads. And the electromagnetic fuel jets on the right hand carb do not have a power source either, which is unusual.

    Unless of course the jet is set to manual working by the slotted screw. Something I have not checked on the jet body yet.

    Thats very strange electrics...the chokes are electrically turned off and kept off after warming up the engine from cold,,,, the current heats up a metal spring in the carb and it expands, turning off the choke. I'd say if you back track along the loom, you will find the missing cables ( or where they should be ) is there current coming to the distributor?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Sorting out the chokes is an easy task, whether i decide to wire them in,
    or set them up without power, and let the engine heat open them
    Either option gives the same result.

    No point in tracing the loom anyway on the type 3, because they were never hardwired
    from the loom . Their power source was a single wire from the positive side of the coil
    fed to both chokes. same as power for the electromagnetic jets.

    And auto chokes were often disconnected because drivers mistakenly thought that the auto chokes were
    heavy on fuel, which they were not

    I will worry about them when I have a cranking engine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭ John.G
    Registered User


    One problem that I seem to remember with mine was that if you switched off the engine when fully heated up was that the choke would come on again due to the external bi metallic spring cooling down with power off, I used to rotate them in the summer so that there wasn't full choking and it would be fully open in a very few minutes, I wasn't aware that the engine heat would/will heat open them. I knew several people that rotated them so that they were fully opened all the time. A bit ironical in that the VW air cooled engine had a manual choke for years and then reverted to auto but the water cooled ones (Golf etc) never went auto.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    If the engine is hot, then the bi metallic spring will keep the choke open, regardless of whether its receiving
    power causing the spring to heat and expand, or if its expanding from engine heat.

    My own fastback that I am driving at the moment, has one faulty choke, that I set to close, so that
    I have choke when its cold. And when the engine heats, the choke opens. Works perfect.

    Pretty sure I have golf carbs with automatic chokes, but open to correction on that. Pierberg2E3 IIRC.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Quick update,
    Car is now on the lift,

    Te3FK8Q.jpg


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    And the floorpan requires no, I repeat no welding.
    Unheard of for a 53 year old VW,

    OyajPsJ.jpg

    BqIBJNe.jpg

    TPTrovY.jpg

    uvCZwtR.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭ John.G
    Registered User


    kadman wrote: »
    If the engine is hot, then the bi metallic sring will keep the choke open, regardless of whether its receiving
    power causing the spring to heat and expand, or if its expanding from engine heat.

    My own fastback that I am driving at the moment, has one faulty choke, that I set to close, so that
    I have choke when its cold. And when the engine heats, the choke opens. Works perfect.

    Pretty sure I have golf carbs with automatic chokes, but open to correction on that. Pierberg2E3 IIRC.

    Quite correct re the Pierberg, wife had one.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Starter solenoid is kaputt. So i will have to go through my stash this afternoon
    to see if I have a spare, but I dont think I have.

    Updates to follow.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    No spare motor. So more diligent inspection of the existing motor,
    and I think I have it fixed now. Solenoid may be ok, and a good cleaning of the shaft to allow
    free movement of the gear may be all thats needed.
    Waiting on a battery to charge to test it before refitting.

    Fingers crossed


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Just managed a compression test on my own.

    The innovative aircraft flip switch allowed me to turn on the starter,
    and walk around to the back of the engine and take the readings.:)

    The engine turns nice and freely with no sign of mechanical issues.
    No bangs, clanking, growling ect it spins freely and evenly.

    Compression readings are.
    No 1 140 psi.
    No2 105 psi.
    No3 100 psi.
    No4 180 psi.

    I had to look a second time at no 4, as i have never had a .

    vw engine with that high a reading.

    In theory if this engine has fuel and spark, it has to start, when it has compression. It may not run sweet and even, but it should start.

    This level of compression tells me 2 things. Valves are closing, but maybe not fully, maybe sticking. Or valve tappet settings are wrong.

    Valve checking and setting is next on the list.

    Given that this is a boxer engine, and the high and low readings are balanced across the engine, this may run OK


  • Posts: 0 Mae Brave Bassoon


    Threads like this and alfas are the reason I joined boards.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Just checked the valves.

    And they are perfectly set. So well, that I found no need to adjust them.
    It might be safe to say that the lower valve readings may increase a bit if this engine runs.Rings may be sticking in the pistons from lying up.

    And at the moment I have found no mechanical reason why this car failed to start, and ended up under house arrest:)

    So by reason of elimination so far, it points towards either a fuel issue or high tension or low tension circuit fault. So thats where I am going next.

    Distributor cap and rotor, and coil..


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Just for the record the starter gear was definitely sticking on the shaft.
    Although I could move it, the solenoid did not have enough power to.

    Good clean with WD 40 did the job. And its cranking nicely now.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Distributor issue could be one of many things.
    Dirty inside the cap.
    Brass plates inside the cap corroded.
    Carbon pin and spring at the inside top of the cap.

    Cracked cap.
    Cracked rotor,
    Dirty rotor,
    Wrong rotor.
    Loose rotor.
    Worn distributor drive,
    Worn distributor body.

    But we will find the problem, whatever it is, fix it, and start this car


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭ John.G
    Registered User


    kadman wrote: »
    Just checked the valves.

    And they are perfectly set. So well, that I found no need to adjust them.
    It might be safe to say that the lower valve readings may increase a bit if this engine runs.Rings may be sticking in the pistons from lying up.

    And at the moment I have found no mechanical reason why this car failed to start, and ended up under house arrest:)

    So by reason of elimination so far, it points towards either a fuel issue or high tension or low tension circuit fault. So thats where I am going next.

    Distributor cap and rotor, and coil..

    You probably know this already anyhow but you can check the low tension spark & static timing by connecting a M.Meter or the appropriate voltage bulb 12V? between the coil negative & earth, switch on ignition and turn the engine by hand, you will get 12V or the bulb will light up when the points open=ignition point, then check timing with no1 piston approaching TDC., static timing mark will be on C.shaft pulley.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    John.G wrote: »
    You probably know this already anyhow but you can check the low tension spark & static timing by connecting a M.Meter or the appropriate voltage bulb 12V? between the coil negative & earth, switch on ignition and turn the engine by hand, you will get 12V or the bulb will light up when the points open=ignition point, then check timing with no1 piston approaching TDC., static timing mark will be on C.shaft pulley.

    I did:)

    But as the electrical components are 53 years old, I will

    be checking them to find out the source of the problem and replacing them anyway:)


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman
    Moderator


    Just inspected and cleaned the points and distributor cap.
    All looks ok now.
    But this car would never start with the positon of the ignition timing.
    Its way too early

    Its so far advanced I cannot get a pic down through the timing inspection hole.
    Its firing about 40mm before it should. So its firing when the exhaust is closed,
    and when the inlets are not fully closed. Probably backfiring up the manifold.

    Its firing way too early. So I am going to do a cursory setting of TDC, and then half spoonful
    of go juice down each manifold, and hit the starter.

    I have a new set of bosch plugs that I will install, but leave in the existing points, at their existing gap, just to see was it this that caused the problem.

    Vw points were notorious for moving, and if they did this changed the ignition timing.And this would never happen had the points hitting the cam been greased before fitting. But this was never done.

    Most problems with moving vw points, was that they fully closed, then no spark, then no starting.

    Just off for a cuppa now.:)

    :)


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