Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

Randy Archer

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

If we are talking about sports stars standings within their own sports, then Sean Kelly would be up there. Kelly is considered a legend in World Cycling and I am sure many cycling fans would still rank him in the top 20/30 of all time. I dont think you can say that about Keane in football or Sonia in athletics.

Katie Taylor is a good shout, but her sport(gender wise) is still in its infancy.

Kelly’s, least as a one day and 7 day specialist would be toP 10 in Most cycLing experts books. He dominated the 1980s . He got his Grand Tour win in Spain , unlike any of the big named one day specialists of his time (granted Hainault n Laurent would decent one dayers too and Greg has his world medals ) and specially the hype around Sagan today

Few lads win the green jersey at TDF and come 4th in GC. Couldn’t see Sagan do that (I like Sagan btw)

Sonia was at the top of her class between 1994-1998 despite 1996 , actually

Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten

Randy Archer

.anon. wrote: »

Yeah, 'British' in the same way as the Begorrah Bejaysus Craic Den in Boston is 'Irish'.

Eh, no, Boston is America and they really are plastic paddies. Belfast most certainly is politically and legally British

KaneToad

If it's looking at someone who competed and excelled at the top on a world stage, it's slim pickings for Irish sports people.

Sonia is really our only one.

Katie is a fine competitor but is a big fish in a very small pond.

Likewise any GAA "stars".

Randy Archer

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Charles J. Haughey

Tour De France 1987

World Cup quarter-final 1990

So good that Mayo’s finest Tony Cascarino wondered aloud “who the fack is he” . Thankfully St Niall Quinn put him straight

Great call .

CJ was known to be a legend and hero in the Gaelic field too but was asked to make way for a few lads to make county .....it would have been unfair

I assume you are well aware from your careful study of scrap Saturday that the Haughey clan had a long list of heroic sporting achievements too. All they say to the days of the Romans .

Sheer CJ was a great sailor too, and a champion marksman with the rifle . Not to mention horse rider and (Irish) Grand National winning owner

A true sportsman and patron

Lol

Randy Archer

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe I missed it but haven't seen Barry McGuigan or Steve Collins mentioned.

Barry The Brit ?
Barry Eastwood played a blinder with that guff about being a saviour of the Peace . Wasn’t that the bloodiest period of the Troubles? Barry saved nothing . Barry was champ for a short time . His rep has taken a hammering over the years so ...

Collins ? It kinda all came late for him, granted he fought top fighters in America throughout the late 1980s and most of the 1990s and won pretty much all that there was to win at the Irish amateur championships but, maybe because he was away for so long people kinda forget ? Even during his champ days he only fought 2-3 times on the island (naturally wanted the pay day that was on offer in the bigger Manchester arena ) His Public personal issues after boxing Might have tainted him a little but boy the 1990s were fun when him and Wayne McCullough were world champs at the same time 1995

But yes, a two weight world champ .unbeaten at super mid .

Most successful professional boxers that Ireland produced

Wha ye talking about?

Michelle Smith was so manly that she pissed Power's whisky

The Tetrarch

Randy Archer wrote: »

Inclined to agree with you, facts are facts , but Ballon Dor has made some questionable decisions eg regular presence of Beckham in the top 3

Second in 1992 was Beckham's only appearance in the top three.

Fr D Maugire

Randy Archer wrote: »

Kelly’s, least as a one day and 7 day specialist would be toP 10 in Most cycLing experts books. He dominated the 1980s . He got his Grand Tour win in Spain , unlike any of the big named one day specialists of his time (granted Hainault n Laurent would decent one dayers too and Greg has his world medals ) and specially the hype around Sagan today

Few lads win the green jersey at TDF and come 4th in GC. Couldn’t see Sagan do that (I like Sagan btw)

Sonia was at the top of her class between 1994-1998 despite 1996 , actually

Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten

I think if you narrow it to one day races, then Kelly would be Top 5 ever, Merckx, Van Looy and then a toss up between De Vlaeminck, Gilbert and Kelly.

Would Sonia be top 5 female distance runner ever?, Diababa, Defar, Cheruyiot, Tulu, Szabo have more medals at Olympic/World level, then do you include champions at 800/1500m? How would you define distance running? 800m up to Marathon or only distances Sonia competed at?

One thing I didnt realise was how late female distance running was added to the olympics, was only in the 80s that the 3k, 10k and Marathon were added. First Worlds were only in 1983 and ever 4 years for the first 3 editions. Hard to define top female distance runners before then when there was so few opportunities for them. Gives an advantage to Sonia in being ranked high as there was so little history before her era.

EmmetSpiceland

Has to be Drico, Brian O’Driscoll, an incredible athlete with “skill”, and brains, to burn.

Honourable mention to Bernard Brogan as well.

eagle eye

Well if you are doing that then where do you rank Katie in amateur boxing, is there any doubt she's the GOAT? In professional boxing she is well on her way to attaining that title as well.

Truthvader

If you cheat your out


"Kelly got popped twice for doping , that shouldn’t be forgotten"

Bye bye Sean

Tell me how

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Has to be Drico, Brian O’Driscoll, an incredible athlete with “skill”, and brains, to burn.

Honourable mention to Bernard Brogan as well.

Didn't even make it on to Dublins Mount Rushmore on OTB show. Michael Carruth being favoured above him by Brian Kerr.

Would disagree with Kerr on that one, but not sure if I would go all the way to saying he was Irelands best sports person ever.

yosser hughes

Has Eoin Morgan been mentioned yet?
Cricket is a massive sport, in the top 10 of most popular participation sports in the world, and he's got to the very top.

I think I know what the reaction will be but he's worth a mention, that's all.

Plasandrunt

Tony McCoy easily

racin' shyte is a minority interest in fairness

afro man

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Wrong. That is a weak stance to support the claim that Keane was world class.
I put up a few players that would be considered great midfielders.

A search on the net for great midfielders gives these ten:
Xavi; Zidane; Zico; Charlton; Cruyff; Rijkaard; Zizinho; Laudrup; Maradona; Goggs.

And a list of the top 50 midfielders in the world.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1572011-50-greatest-midfielders-in-the-history-of-world-football

Another list gives:
Arturo Vidal; David Silva; Yaya Toure; Bastien Schweinsteiger; Paul Pogba; Iniesta; Eden Hazard; Luka Modric; Cesc Fabregas; Arjen Robben

The three lists have a common factor - no Roy Keane.

Tetrach.. Don't think any off the lads above qualify as irish sportsmen for this thread

Higgins5473

Tell me how wrote: »

Didn't even make it on to Dublins Mount Rushmore on OTB show.

That’s totally meaningless in fairness. It’s as good an endorsement from Louis Walsh on whatever pop talent reality sh*te he did.

afro man

Randy Archer wrote: »

Eh, no, Boston is America and they really are plastic paddies. Belfast most certainly is politically and legally British

Belfast is on the island of ireland.. Under British control but for me anybody born in six counties is irish whether they like it it not..

Truthvader

afro man wrote: »

Belfast is on the island of ireland.. Under British control but for me anybody born in six counties is irish whether they like it it not..

Even though a majority of the people who actually live there want to be British. But sure its whatever you think it is

Water John

NI and its citizens are in reality both Irish and GB. Some sports are All Ireland also. Recognise the reality.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I haven't read the thread, but I presume there's broad agreement that Pádraig Harrington is the most successful sports person ever from Ireland? To win one golf major is an achievement, but to win back-to-back British Opens is extraordinary.

Water John

He gets honourable mention but seems the main argument lies between a man and woman from Cork, Sonia and Roy.

eagle eye

yosser hughes wrote:

Has Eoin Morgan been mentioned yet? Cricket is a massive sport, in the top 10 of most popular participation sports in the world, and he's got to the very top.

He plays for the Brits, doesn't count.

Plasandrunt

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Tony McCoy easily

Sorry

It's Sir Anthony McCoy

The Champ.

The sport will never see his likes again.

Oranage2

It's definitely McGregor, he's taken over Keane and Harrington as our most famous sport star, he's also our richest sportsman. Northern Irish people who identify as British aren't Irish to me.

In 10 years his Twitter crap and thuggery will be forgotten and he'll be recognized as our greatest Worldwide without a doubt.

ChosenWong

George Best Soccer Superstar

Dtp1979

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I think if you narrow it to one day races, then Kelly would be Top 5 ever, Merckx, Van Looy and then a toss up between De Vlaeminck, Gilbert and Kelly.

Would Sonia be top 5 female distance runner ever?, Diababa, Defar, Cheruyiot, Tulu, Szabo have more medals at Olympic/World level, then do you include champions at 800/1500m? How would you define distance running? 800m up to Marathon or only distances Sonia competed at?

One thing I didnt realise was how late female distance running was added to the olympics, was only in the 80s that the 3k, 10k and Marathon were added. First Worlds were only in 1983 and ever 4 years for the first 3 editions. Hard to define top female distance runners before then when there was so few opportunities for them. Gives an advantage to Sonia in being ranked high as there was so little history before her era.

I don’t know why, but All I could hear was jimmy magees voice when reading this

The Tetrarch

afro man wrote: »

Tetrach.. Don't think any off the lads above qualify as irish sportsmen for this thread

The above comment indicates you did not read the thread.

These are the posts:
.....................................................................................
Originally Posted by Pawwed Rig
Roy Keane is not even the best footballer. In this order
1. Liam Brady
2. Paul McGrath
3. John Giles
4. Roy Keane
.....................................................................................
Originally Posted by Greyfox
Your having a laugh, the other 3 are only legends by Irish Standards. Keane is a legend by world standards, he's one of the best players to ever play in English football.
....................................................................................

afro man
My posts refuted the claim by Greyfox that Roy Keane was "a legend by world standards".
When Keane played the Ballon d'Or only covered European players, and Keane was not a legend by European standards, and of course also not a legend by world standards.
In the Ballon d'Or Roy Keane was 6th in 1999 (36 votes), 27th in 2000 (1 vote). He did not feature in any other years.

Yes, the players I mentioned, world class midfielders, were not Irish sportsmen, but if a poster claims an Irish sportsman was "a legend by world standards" then he must be compared to world players.

nedkelly123

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Michelle Smith de Bruin

did she not dissolve in a pool ?

eagle eye

The Tetrarch wrote:

Yes, the players I mentioned, world class midfielders, were not Irish sportsmen, but if a poster claims an Irish sportsman was "a legend by world standards" then he must be compared to world players.

He was a great player by world standards for soccer fans but he never seperated himself from others around him. Patrick Viera was considered every bit as good as him