Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

Mysterypunter

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

Ed Joyce was better than him, just about 10 years older. Morgan is a good shout though.

Tell me how

Feisar wrote: »

It's as generic as could be though. Swap out Ireland for China, four provinces with 26 provinces and tall for small.

:pac::pac::pac:

ahnowbrowncow

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

It's about participation levels when talking about best sportsperson, not number of fans or viewing numbers. It's widely accepted that football has the highest particpation numbers of any sport.

Plus I highly doubt cricket viewership figures surpass football. Cricket world cup had viewing figures of 700m in comparison to the football world cup having 3.5bn

Randy Archer

afro man wrote: »

Randy

you must care with that reply check your world map / Atlas Belfast located in the little Island called Ireland

Politics defines the world . Belfast is British . Return to school . Better still, since you love geography, pop up there when you can. You won’t be in any doubt when you waltz are city centre

Bellbottoms

Tell me how wrote: »

How would you compare the skill of a cricketer compared to that of a hurler on a purely basic level for example?

I don't know. How would you?
How do you compare a hurler to a soccer player for that matter. Or a boxer?


If we are talking about the most successful it's Morgan. No question. Went from playing a minority sport in North Dublin to CPT of the British cricket team. He might not be well known in Ireland. But he is easily the most well known Irish sportsman in the world.

Followed by McGregor and then the golfers. In terms of name recognition.

Randy Archer

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It’s long past the time the IRFU stop flying the tricolour and ditch the soccer anthem for “home” rugby fixtures.

Seeing the tricolour and an Ulster flag flying a little lower is a beyond a joke, at this “stage”. Just fly the flag of the IRFU as it includes the flags of every province.

Singing two “anthems” is just wasting time. Sing the one that represents the “whole island”, as that is who the team are representing.

Just have the four province IRFU flag and leave things well alone . Go to the bar or out on the kettle when the anthems come on . Agreed

Randy Archer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a terrible anthem though. Sounds like something that was written by committee.

Just play teenage kicks by the undertones or ghost town by the specials

Feisar

Randy Archer wrote: »

Politics defines the world . Belfast is British . Return to school . Better still, since you love geography, pop up there when you can. You won’t be in any doubt when you waltz are city centre

Belfast is Irish the same way Paris is European.

partyguinness

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

It's not a popularity contest or who is the most famous or watched by the most.

Tell me how

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Dan Donnelly, one of the greatest boxers ever to have lived.

Check out his story and tell me how you could possibly disagree.

Had two significant fights.

The first ended in controversy after his challenger abandoned after claiming Donnelly had, the second would have WADA investigating (see below).

If one popular story is to be believed, Donnelly, who was being badly beaten in the fifth round, was saved by the magical properties of a lump of sugar cane slipped to him by Captain Kelly's sister

RollieFingers

McGregor, no doubt about it.

Fr D Maugire

Randy Archer wrote: »

Sonia competed at 1,500 ,3000, 5000 to 10,000 m

Here era started around 1991

Szabo , the Romanian .lol. Wasn’t she caught with drugs ?

Well, from what I can find, a friend or relative was found with products, but was cleared of any wrongdoing as they were not PEDs or banned.

TBH, the whole drugs thing is hit and miss. Sonia ran at a time when EPO was the drug of choice, but there was no test for it during most of her career. That is not accussing her of doping, just highlighting how random the whole doping thing was. End of the day Lance Armstrong was never caught and if not for being a complete dick, would probably have skated as well. I just think people swallow the whole Irish athletes dont cheat line a little too easily.

So do you think Sonia would be Top 5 in the history of womens distance running?

Water John

Runners at the time, knew Szabo was dodgy.

Bellbottoms

partyguinness wrote: »

It's not a popularity contest or who is the most famous or watched by the most.

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

Tell me how

Bellbottoms wrote: »

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

I'd be taking consideration of the skill level or athleticism to play that sport as a fairly heavy weighting in the consideration of the best sportsperson.

I'm not saying there is no skill in Cricket, there certainly is in bowling, but, I wouldn't think it is comparable to that exhibited within soccer, GAA, rugby, Tennis, golf, etc etc.

Same goes for athleticism, I would rate the average runner, swimmer, cyclist, as significantly more athletic than the average cricketer.

Fr D Maugire

Bellbottoms wrote: »

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

Surely the criteria should be the greatest within their own sport, where they stand on the legends roll call.

That is why I have been saying Sean Kelly, even today he will appear on most Top 10 cyclists of all-time lists. Not for a year, a few years, or for a decade, but of ALL TIME. If you want to narrow it futher to his speciality, one day racing. He would be Top 5 ever.

How many other athletes do we have that would be considered in the Top 5-10 of all time within their sport.

I do not know where the likes of Brian O'Driscoll or Eoin Morgan stand within their sports, but Roy Keane or Padraig Harrington are definitely not in that exalted company in their sports.

Maybe Sonia is within Female Distance running, again I am not sure if she would be ranked that high.

As for McGregor, he gets a lot of publicity, but I have exactly zero interest in MMA so no idea where he stands, plus it is a relatively new sport. Ditto female boxing, a even more limited pool to choose from.

Tuco88

Id give it to Denis Irwin. Class act on and off the Field.
Talyor in close second.

eagle eye

He plays for another nation, he can hardly be considered an Irish sportsperson.

eagle eye

Fr D Maugire wrote:

Surely the criteria should be the greatest within their own sport, where they stand on the legends roll call.

Well then Katie Taylor wins by a mile.

Mysterypunter

eagle eye wrote: »

Well then Katie Taylor wins by a mile.

If a Taylor is the winner it should be Dennis Taylor. Beat Steve Davis in the greatest comeback ever. Waiting for snooker is not a sport, he's a norrie answers

eagle eye

One match doesn't put you at the top. Ken Doherty is ahead of him as far as snooker players are concerned imo and the Hurricane is ahead of both of them.

And I said Katie is no.1 based in the criteria mentioned.

Fr D Maugire

eagle eye wrote: »

Well then Katie Taylor wins by a mile.

As I mentioned, I think her sport is too small/newish. Not going to be many legends in a sport that was only admitted to the Olympics in 2012, held its first amateur championship in 2001 and has a tiny professional level. Its a bit like asking who are the legendary players of the Carolina Panthers? of course there will be some, but will be all from the last 20 years. Hardly comparable to say the legends of the Packers for example.

mrkiscool2

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

As I mentioned, I think her sport is too small/newish. Not going to be many legends in a sport that was only admitted to the Olympics in 2012, held its first amateur championship in 2001 and has a tiny professional level. Its a bit like asking who are the legendary players of the Carolina Panthers? of course there will be some, but will be all from the last 20 years. Hardly comparable to say the legends of the Packers for example.

So Tom Brady isn't one of the greatest of all time under this example? Seeing as how the Patriots only became champions at the turn of the millennium? It's a really bad analogy. I think Taylor is very underappreciated. Had she not been robbed in 2016 in her match of a decision she might have got a second gold. Also worth noting she is a big reason for it being an Olympic sport in the first place but London had to have a potential gold medalist (in Adams) be the first final. IOC originally wanted KT potentially being in that spot.

I still think PH is our greatest sportsperson but I can see why KT is up there and she is a very close second for me.

AngryHippie

Anything to be said for Brian O'Driscoll ....


O'Driscoll is the fourth most-capped player in rugby union history
141 test matches: 133 for Ireland (83 as captain), and 8 for the British and Irish Lions.
He scored 46 tries for Ireland and 1 try for the Lions in 2001, making him the highest try scorer of all time in Irish Rugby.
He is the 8th-highest try scorer in international rugby union history, and the highest scoring centre of all time.

Player of the Tournament in the 2006, 2007 and 2009 RBS Six Nations
World Rugby Player of the Decade (2000–09) by the magazine Rugby World
2001, 2002 and 2009, O'Driscoll was nominated for the IRB World Player of the Year

Bleacher Report

We can argue individual v team until we are blue in the face, but when it boils down to it, as an individual and on a team, and not just a club or a nation, but lions tours etc. to boot in physicality, sportsmanship, skill, guile creativity and pure and utter determination, he will end up topping out any scale you try and put him on, balanced over a very impressive 16 year career.

mrkiscool2

AngryHippie wrote: »

Anything to be said for Brian O'Driscoll ....


O'Driscoll is the fourth most-capped player in rugby union history
141 test matches: 133 for Ireland (83 as captain), and 8 for the British and Irish Lions.
He scored 46 tries for Ireland and 1 try for the Lions in 2001, making him the highest try scorer of all time in Irish Rugby.
He is the 8th-highest try scorer in international rugby union history, and the highest scoring centre of all time.

Player of the Tournament in the 2006, 2007 and 2009 RBS Six Nations
World Rugby Player of the Decade (2000–09) by the magazine Rugby World
2001, 2002 and 2009, O'Driscoll was nominated for the IRB World Player of the Year

Bleacher Report

We can argue individual v team until we are blue in the face, but when it boils down to it, as an individual and on a team, and not just a club or a nation, but lions tours etc. to boot in physicality, sportsmanship, skill, guile creativity and pure and utter determination, he will end up topping out any scale you try and put him on, balanced over a very impressive 16 year career.

Here is the thing. As a rugby head I'm like "yeah, BOD" and I also read arguments for most other sportspeople and I'm like "yeah!"

I think this argument is, fully, subjective. Now, I think we can rule out certain sportspeople due to drugs and other such things, but, in general, for a small country we have produced some amazing talent that will forever be remembered as greats in almost every sport. Which, is pretty damn amazing.

This should be personal and subjective and not a weird d1ck swinging contest like it has been.

Optimalprimerib

Because Roy Keane is inherently unlikeable. He abandoned his country right before the big stage. He ended a plyers career with full intention to do so. Mocks and criticises pundits and then becomes one as he realizes management is too hard.

Being the greatest ever sports person for a country makes you a representative of that country, so people would much prefer a better person than Roy Keane despite his accomplishments.

ToddDameron

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

He ended a plyers career with full intention to do so.

Why do people persist with this myth?


"Håland had stated on his personal website that he had been playing with the injury to his left knee a few months, that it did not receive a knock in the game to his left leg (Keane went for his right leg), and that Keane did not cause his injury. Legal action was dropped in February 2003 after the club reviewed the medical advice."

Fr D Maugire

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

So Tom Brady isn't one of the greatest of all time under this example? Seeing as how the Patriots only became champions at the turn of the millennium? It's a really bad analogy. I think Taylor is very underappreciated. Had she not been robbed in 2016 in her match of a decision she might have got a second gold. Also worth noting she is a big reason for it being an Olympic sport in the first place but London had to have a potential gold medalist (in Adams) be the first final. IOC originally wanted KT potentially being in that spot.

I still think PH is our greatest sportsperson but I can see why KT is up there and she is a very close second for me.

Not really, as the Patriots have been around since 1959(pre NFL) and reached 2 Superbowls before Brady arrived, Brady also has legendary status because of his success against all players in the NFL(American Football) Now if American Football only started 20 years ago, Brady would still be the best, but legendary? Compared to who?

There is a difference in being a legend of a sport that dates back over a 100 years and one that is much more recent and limited, GAA players are not generally considered for this list as people view it as limited internationally in participation(I agree and I like GAA) yet I would wager more people take part in GAA than womans boxing around the world.

Mad_maxx

Mysterypunter wrote: »

If a Taylor is the winner it should be Dennis Taylor. Beat Steve Davis in the greatest comeback ever. Waiting for snooker is not a sport, he's a norrie answers

Yes ,someone overweight should be in the running ( pun intended)

Rockbeast2

LOL at the Roy Keane votes. He never played in a European Cup final. He played in one World Cup and Phil Babb had a better tournament.

Giles, Brady, Whelan all outshone him on the European/World stage.

At least there is a good case for Sonia O'Sullivan.

Katie Taylor? Nah, that's like saying Joey Tribbiani is the greatest Italian-American sportsperson of all time for being the Fireball Champion of the World for 25 years when he only had to beat Chandler.

Cycling is too tainted.

Harrington in with a shout.