Green List (Who will be on it?)

ninebeanrows

Conor Pope says its 'reckless in the extreme' to head to countrys with less Covid than here.

People have lost the plot on this topic.

I think Prof Jack Lambert only one coming out with any credibility

rajqo

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Flying out from Dublin Friday 2 weeks to Portugal.

Flying back to Belfast and get into city and train back to Dundalk.

I exempt from quaranteen? As il have technically entered Ireland from the North? Just asking for the other half's work

if the portugal is on a UK green list, then isolation is not required and vice versa

LilyShame

Why does he say that... Lower cases... Surely that's good

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Conor Pope says its 'reckless in the extreme' to head to countrys with less Covid than here.

People have lost the plot on this topic.

I think Prof Jack Lambert only one coming out with any credibility

Murt10

This up to date ECDC map would me very worried about parts of Portugal

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Indestructable

The shaming of those going on holidays is going to be RIDICULOUS. They shouldn't be pitting us against eachother.

MickeyLeari

Conor Pope is the champion of the consumer (my arse). His rambling on insurance this week has been a disgrace for a consumer journalist. Thankfully someone on the Irish times have sense with Mark Paul and Dr. Lambert trying to ensure some balance.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Will the list be published tonight or in the morning? (if it will be at all!)

ninebeanrows

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Will the list be published tonight or in the morning? (if it will be at all!)

The Journos wont be happy! They'll have to wait, I'd say they wont go much past midnight. I'd say leak announced to press in next hour with official press release in the morning

DarHan84

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Flying out from Dublin Friday 2 weeks to Portugal.

Flying back to Belfast and get into city and train back to Dundalk.

I exempt from quaranteen? As il have technically entered Ireland from the North? Just asking for the other half's work

I'd say that's a fairly obvious no there! Unless you're planning on pretending you were just in Belfast for two weeks 🀣

Donald Trump

Indestructable wrote: »

The shaming of those going on holidays is going to be RIDICULOUS. They shouldn't be pitting us against eachother.

People shouldn't be so self-centred to think that their trip to Spain to sit on a beach is more important than trying not to erase the hard-won gains made through the sacrifices of others.

Feria40

DarHan84 wrote: »

I'd say that's a fairly obvious no there! Unless you're planning on pretending you were just in Belfast for two weeks ��

And what's stopping him/her pretending exactly that?!

A bit tongue in cheek but really? Why not if they so choose.

The travel advice such as it is, would be questionable to say the least even if we didn't have an unpoliced border with another jurisdiction.

The fact that we do makes the whole thing farsical.

I just do not understand how the advice mehole and Leo are working off seems to be so at odds with so many of our near neighbours.

Are other EU governments receiving different advice? Are they receiving the same advice but choosing to ignore it?

Or have they just weighed up the pro's and con's of travel and decided that without an end game, the damage (and not just economically) of travel restrictions is just too great..

Snow Garden

Jaysus FFG have really made a mess of this one. Utterly confused something that was quite simple.

Truthvader

Government needs to actually govern. What is the point of a green list of places you are allowed visit but the strongly advised not to go to at all. Whatever is decided needs a degree of certainty ( which in fairness they have managed to date in other areas)

Feria40

Donald Trump wrote: »

People shouldn't be so self-centred to think that their trip to Spain to sit on a beach is more important than trying not to erase the hard-won gains made through the sacrifices of others.

Whether intentionally or otherwise you are missing the point.

Provided I follow hand hygiene, social distancing and face covering ( where required), how am I putting myself or others at more risk by choosing to sit on a Spanish beach rather than Irish beach?

Did you see the pictures from lahinch and other tourist spots over the weekend? I'll take my chances in Spain.

Covid is knocking around here and will continue to do so. 20 at a building site yesterday, a crèche worker today. I'd be fairly confident that if we did some mass testing of other work places such as supermarkets plenty more positives would appear.

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

People shouldn't be so self-centred to think that their trip to Spain to sit on a beach is more important than trying not to erase the hard-won gains made through the sacrifices of others.

Well at least while contemplating your point, those on the beach don’t have to worry about catching Covid there given it’s extremely low risk. Those in the pub in Ireland moaning about them do so in a high risk location.

Just saying

Donald Trump

Truthvader wrote: »

Government needs to actually govern. What is the point of a green list of places you are allowed visit but the strongly advised not to go to at all. Whatever is decided needs a degree of certainty ( which in fairness they have managed to date in other areas)

It's quite simple. The advice is not to make non-essential journeys.


However, should you need to make an essential journey, the procedures that you should follow upon your return fall into two categories.
1) If you will be returning from a country that is not on the list, you need to quarantine for 14 days. That's full quarantine. Stay in your house. Don't go out and don't mix with anyone.

2) If you are returning from a country that is on the list, you do not need to do a full 14-day quarantine, but instead need to follow appropriate social distancing rules.


Perhaps they should have named it an "orange list" or something to allow everyone to keep up!

Donald Trump

Feria40 wrote: »

Whether intentionally or otherwise you are missing the point.

Provided I follow hand hygiene, social distancing and face covering ( where required), how am I putting myself or others at more risk by choosing to sit on a Spanish beach rather than Irish beach?

Did you see the pictures from lahinch and other tourist spots over the weekend? I'll take my chances in Spain.

Covid is knocking around here and will continue to do so. 20 at a building site yesterday, a crèche worker today. I'd be fairly confident that if we did some mass testing of other work places such as supermarkets plenty more positives would appear.

Then don't go to Lahinch. It isn't a dichotomy where you must choose between Lahinch and Spain and you reluctantly choose Spain as the lesser of two evils.




Just do your bit and don't piss on the efforts of those who are making genuine sacrifices

Feria40

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's quite simple. The advice is not to make non-essential journeys.


However, should you need to make an essential journey, the procedures that you should follow upon your return fall into two categories.
1) If you will be returning from a country that is not on the list, you need to quarantine for 14 days. That's full quarantine. Stay in your house. Don't go out and don't mix with anyone.

2) If you are returning from a country that is on the list, you do not need to do a full 14-day quarantine, but instead need to follow appropriate social distancing rules.


Perhaps they should have named it an "orange list" or something to allow everyone to keep up!

I take it point 1 & 2 are your suggestions as to what the government should do from here on?

On point 1, the word quarantine was removed from the travel advice earlier this month and replaced with 'restrict your movements"

On point 2 , I would hope that that's the given regardless of whether you travel or just decide to leave your house and visit the shop!

nc6000

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's quite simple. The advice is not to make non-essential journeys.


However, should you need to make an essential journey, the procedures that you should follow upon your return fall into two categories.
1) If you will be returning from a country that is not on the list, you need to quarantine for 14 days. That's full quarantine. Stay in your house. Don't go out and don't mix with anyone.

2) If you are returning from a country that is on the list, you do not need to do a full 14-day quarantine, but instead need to follow appropriate social distancing rules.


Perhaps they should have named it an "orange list" or something to allow everyone to keep up!

Out of interest what should the advice be for someone who has recovered from Covid-19? Not speaking for myself but how about someone who has had Covid-19 and recovered from it - they are unlikely to pick it up again or be carriers or is that not the case?

Donald Trump

faceman wrote: »

Well at least while contemplating your point, those on the beach don’t have to worry about catching Covid there given it’s extremely low risk. Those in the pub in Ireland moaning about them do so in a high risk location.

Just saying

Again, it's isn't an either/or choice between the pub and being magically teleported to a beach in Spain.


Maybe you'd go to Spain and be grand or maybe you'd go to Spain and bring it back and start a new chain of infection here which results in a few people dying.


Or maybe you don't go and then in 6 months, an elderly relative catches it and dies. And maybe the start of that chain in Ireland was someone who thought they needed their essential holiday in the bars over in the Costa. You might not be so flippant about it then. Nobody knows.

ninebeanrows

Looks like travel advice for green list will be changed

ninebeanrows

15 countries incl. Italy, Indo breaking it

Donald Trump

nc6000 wrote: »

Out of interest what should the advice be for someone who has recovered from Covid-19? Not speaking for myself but how about someone who has had Covid-19 and recovered from it - they are unlikely to pick it up again or be carriers or is that not the case?

I wouldn't know in that case. I don't know if they can still carry it internally or not. They'd probably still be able to spread it externally (pick it up on their hands on a plane and then place their hands on the bus rail 30 minutes later or something) but that might not be of as much a concern.

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

Again, it's isn't an either/or choice between the pub and being magically teleported to a beach in Spain.


Maybe you'd go to Spain and be grand or maybe you'd go to Spain and bring it back and start a new chain of infection here which results in a few people dying.


Or maybe you don't go and then in 6 months, an elderly relative catches it and dies. And maybe the start of that chain in Ireland was someone who thought they needed their essential holiday in the bars over in the Costa. You might not be so flippant about it then. Nobody knows.

A lot of maybes there. Maybe people can go on non essential journeys and be of no risk to anyone in Ireland?

Feria40

Donald Trump wrote: »

Then don't go to Lahinch. It isn't a dichotomy where you must choose between Lahinch and Spain and you reluctantly choose Spain as the lesser of two evils.




Just do your bit and don't piss on the efforts of those who are making genuine sacrifices

I'm not pissing on anyone. The government request is that we staycation this year, I can replace lahinch with any number of locations around the country and the result will be the same.

Most people have made sacrifices to a greater or lesser degree since this crap storm started in March. Not least the tens of thousands of people who rely on tourism and hospitality sectos to make a living and will struggle to do so for the foreseeable. I wouldn't make little of anyone that prefers not to travel whatever the reason.

What I don't agree with is all this 'green jersey and do your bit' lark. What is the end game? why are we different to others?

IMO we have backed ourselves into a corner with no obvious way out when it comes to travel

ninebeanrows

Indo reports, hopefully correctly!

The Government is also expected to continue to generally advise people not to travel abroad unless it is an essential journey. However, the advice for countries on the green list is to take “normal precautions”.

The countries on the list where it is deemed safe to travel include Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy, Hungry, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia, Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco and San Marino.

Travellers flying to and from these countries will be exempt from the two week quarantine expected of all passengers arriving in Dublin Airport.

Spanish Eyes

Green list countries from Irish Times just now.

Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy. Hungary, Estonia, Latvia

Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia/Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco, San Marino.

EDIT.. just cross posted with Sleety Rain above.

nc6000

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Indo reports, hopefully correctly!

The Government is also expected to continue to generally advise people not to travel abroad unless it is an essential journey. However, the advice for countries on the green list is to take “normal precautions”.

The countries on the list where it is deemed safe to travel include Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy, Hungry, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia, Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco and San Marino.

Travellers flying to and from these countries will be exempt from the two week quarantine expected of all passengers arriving in Dublin Airport.

Irish Times confirming the same list of 15 which was leaked earlier. I wonder how many people planned to visit Greenland?

Spanish Eyes

Must book meself a trip to Greenland lol.

Truthvader

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's quite simple. The advice is not to make non-essential journeys.


However, should you need to make an essential journey, the procedures that you should follow upon your return fall into two categories.
1) If you will be returning from a country that is not on the list, you need to quarantine for 14 days. That's full quarantine. Stay in your house. Don't go out and don't mix with anyone.

2) If you are returning from a country that is on the list, you do not need to do a full 14-day quarantine, but instead need to follow appropriate social distancing rules.


Perhaps they should have named it an "orange list" or something to allow everyone to keep up!

Much simpler to ban foreign holidays . Full Stop. OR If it is safe let us all go. The two different message approach lacks clarity and courage.

Donald Trump

Feria40 wrote: »

I take it point 1 & 2 are your suggestions as to what the government should do from here on?

On point 1, the word quarantine was removed from the travel advice earlier this month and replaced with 'restrict your movements"

On point 2 , I would hope that that's the given regardless of whether you travel or just decide to leave your house and visit the shop!

No. They are not my suggestions. They are my understanding of the idea behind the green list.


Don't go anywhere unless it is essential. In the event that you must travel, your restrictions upon returning will be less if you are from that list of countries.

Spanish Eyes

nc6000 wrote: »

Irish Times confirming the same list of 15 which was leaked earlier. I wonder how many people planned to visit Greenland?

That's a subtle name for Ireland, so go and stay here. LOL.

Donald Trump

Truthvader wrote: »

Much simpler to ban foreign holidays . Full Stop. OR If it is safe let us all go. The two different message approach lacks clarity and courage.

The important word is holidays


They have explicitly said they do not want people to take non-essential travel. The list is not supposed to be for holidays and should not be abused for them.



There are some people abroad who do have to come home. If you are working in the US and you return here now, you must quarantine for 14 days. If you have been stuck in Italy for the past few months and now can come home, you will not have to quarantine to the same extent.


They never closed essential businesses. You can probably rationalize that internally without jumping to the conclusion that if essential businesses were not closed then non-essential ones should not have been either. It is the same here. It is still only for essential travel.

The_Brood

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Green list countries from Irish Times just now.

Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy. Hungary, Estonia, Latvia

Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia/Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco, San Marino.

EDIT.. just cross posted with Sleety Rain above.

Two of those aren't even actual countries.

Feria40

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Green list countries from Irish Times just now.

Malta, Finland, Norway, Italy. Hungary, Estonia, Latvia

Lithuania, Cyprus, Slovakia/Greece, Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco, San Marino.

EDIT.. just cross posted with Sleety Rain above.

Am... Maybe this is a silly question but a quick look on Skyscanner would suggest there are no direct flights from Ireland to Gibraltar... So do we fly via the UK or take my yacht :pac:

Spanish Eyes

Scratching my head trying to figure out how people would get to Gibraltar without going through Spain or a UK airport, and Monaco without being in France.

Spanish Eyes

Since UK is off the list will there be border patrols.

Truthvader

Donald Trump wrote: »

The important word is holidays


They have explicitly said they do not want people to take non-essential travel. The list is not supposed to be for holidays and should not be abused for them.



There are some people abroad who do have to come home. If you are working in the US and you return here now, you must quarantine for 14 days. If you have been stuck in Italy for the past few months and now can come home, you will not have to quarantine to the same extent.


They never closed essential businesses. You can probably rationalize that internally without jumping to the conclusion that if essential businesses were not closed then non-essential ones should not have been either. It is the same here. It is still only for essential travel.

Agree 100% the important word is "holidays" but that is precisely the word the government is not using. Simple ban required. At the moment Ryanair/ Aer Lingus keep your money if you dont show up.

Feria40

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Scratching my head trying to figure out how people would get to Gibraltar without going through Spain or a UK airport, and Monaco without being in France.

Just when you thought they couldn't possibly dig themselves in any deeper :P

The_Brood

Donald Trump wrote: »

The important word is holidays


They have explicitly said they do not want people to take non-essential travel. The list is not supposed to be for holidays and should not be abused for them.



There are some people abroad who do have to come home. If you are working in the US and you return here now, you must quarantine for 14 days. If you have been stuck in Italy for the past few months and now can come home, you will not have to quarantine to the same extent.


They never closed essential businesses. You can probably rationalize that internally without jumping to the conclusion that if essential businesses were not closed then non-essential ones should not have been either. It is the same here. It is still only for essential travel.

Which would be astonishing even by the current standards - 100% of all the talk and interest surrounding the green list has been in regards to holidays.

Truthvader

Feria40 wrote: »

Just when you thought they couldn't possibly dig themselves in any deeper :P

Thought the same but Gibralter actually has an airport taking about 500,000 passengers pa

Donald Trump

nc6000 wrote: »

Irish Times confirming the same list of 15 which was leaked earlier. I wonder how many people planned to visit Greenland?

The amount that have to go there for essential trips is irrelevant to the decision. They will still have to go, except now they just won't have to do the 14 day quarantine upon return.



Also irrelevant is the amount of people who wanted to go their for their holidays. Because they are still not supposed to be going.

Nigel Fairservice

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Must book meself a trip to Greenland lol.

I looked at doing a day trip to Greenland when I was in Iceland. The day trip was €1000 when I enquired at a travel agency in Reykjavik.

Donald Trump

Truthvader wrote: »

Agree 100% the important word is "holidays" but that is precisely the word the government is not using. Simple ban required. At the moment Ryanair/ Aer Lingus keep your money if you dont show up.

I am guessing that they still have to keep the routes open for the "essential" travel.



Of course there are people who might have planned trips a year ago. You have to feel sorry for those. But for anyone who booked a trip since Feb onwards, they have to have known that they were taking a big risk.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Donald Trump wrote: »

The important word is holidays


They have explicitly said they do not want people to take non-essential travel. The list is not supposed to be for holidays and should not be abused for them.

Ah, but there you’re wrong as usual Mr Trump. The DFA advice has been raised to Exercise Caution for the 15 listed countries so holiday away.

Spanish Eyes

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I looked at doing a day trip to Greenland when I was in Iceland. The day trip was €1000 when I enquired at a travel agency in Reykjavik.

:eek:

Feria40

Truthvader wrote: »

Thought the same but Gibralter actually has an airport taking about 500,000 passengers pa

But why is it on the green list if there is no direct flight? Even if your travel happened to be essential in nature, how would you get there without entering a country that is not on the green list,?

Sheep Shagger

It really should be an Amber list.

Green suggests its a 'good to go' list when it's not really.

Spanish Eyes

Truthvader wrote: »

Thought the same but Gibralter actually has an airport taking about 500,000 passengers pa

Yes, but the arriving or departing person on an essential trip must fly to UK first, and it's not on the Green list.

DarHan84

DarHan84 wrote: »

Current list below of where countries are at:

If it's <12, then either it excludes any countries with over 4 cases per 100k people over past 14 days.

Also there's the potential that Monaco/San Marino don't get included (understandable in case of Monaco as a principality, less so for San Marino) which would have Italy/Greece as the final countries.

Either way - blocking out some time, getting some popcorn in and waiting for what will undoubtedly be a rational reaction on here tonight!

Countries And Territories
<1 cases per 100k people over past 14 days.
(1st) Malta
1+
Finland
Hungary
Georgia
2+
Estonia
Norway
San Marino
3+
Monaco
Lithuania
Latvia
Slovakia
(12th) Cyprus
4+Greece
Italy
Ireland

But I thought there was a great conspiracy and Italy/Greece wouldn't be on the list...

🀣