Bathroom Renovation

James 007

All, I am looking to do a bathroom refurb, that wont cost me an arm and a leg but at the same time give me something that is workable.

Just today I have followed this thread below, a lot of good stuff on it:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058088839&page=4

Last weekend after much thinking I have made a start, however I would stress that I have not finalised any of the design, but I am looking for any advice from all the posters online. So far electric shower, shower tray, tiles & a radiator removed.

Attached are some photos so far, & where possible I will do most of the work myself.

With regards to design I am looking for a new shower tray, doors and a new radiator. With regards to existing suite the bath, sink & toilet I am looking to hold onto these where they are currently located, but in my head I would like to install a new free standing bath.

With regards to look, I am looking to hold onto the wood panelling (paint grey or dark blue) and tile full height walls over bath & shower area. Tile colour would probably match the panelling colour or be a subway white with grey grout. Walls, I would like to hold onto some white colour walls. Floor tiles will depend on the panelling/wall colours. Ceiling is a sloped wood panelling ceiling similar to the current wall panelling with 4no. spotlights.

Any thoughts on the design, solutions etc. welcome:)

James 007

Some additional photos to give a sense of the space and the type of suite existing in the bathroom. I had to drain down the whole system to remove this one radiator, but thankfully all returned & heating system & down stairs shower in operation for duration of this project. Note that all the waste pipes are above floor level which is annoying to say the least.

seannash

Does the bath get used at all?
Its very tight for both a bath and a shower(Can you give measurements)



If you can why not get rid of the bath and put in a double sink vanity and a large walk in shower.
Another piece of advice would be find a picture of a bathroom you like and work towards it, dont just make it up on the spot. So many little details add up to create a great bathroom. For example I trimmed my freestanding shower screen in black U channel (Not the normal chrome one the shop wanted to supply) on all 4 sides instead of just 2 and it made such a big difference to the overall look of the place.
Find an image and work towards it otherwise it'll be a bog standard bathroom renovation.

James 007

seannash wrote: »

Does the bath get used at all?
Its very tight for both a bath and a shower(Can you give measurements)



If you can why not get rid of the bath and put in a double sink vanity and a large walk in shower.
Another piece of advice would be find a picture of a bathroom you like and work towards it, dont just make it up on the spot. So many little details add up to create a great bathroom. For example I trimmed my freestanding shower screen in black U channel (Not the normal chrome one the shop wanted to supply) on all 4 sides instead of just 2 and it made such a big difference to the overall look of the place.
Find an image and work towards it otherwise it'll be a bog standard bathroom renovation.

I was thinking to do that, but I would prefer to leave it in for now as I may sell the house in the next few years. I would love to change it to a free standing bath, any thoughts on that

James 007

Some additional progress to date, rad gone & shower gone

James 007

Shopping list & taking up existing ply board

James 007

Deciding how the shower waste exits the shower trap has been a difficult one. Initially I was looking to make one 90degree bend out from the trap, then as per the photo, two 45 degree bends but cant get it to work. Then I taught about straight out from the waste trap without using the 45 degree bend that came with the trap.

Now I have decided to rotate the trap 180 degrees so the outlet faces away from the corner of both walls, short length of waste & the run will run approx. under the middle of the shower tray.

Had I decided to purchase a shower tray with the outlet on the left hand side it would of made life alot easier:rolleyes:

James 007

Photos attached again

James 007

seannash wrote: »

Does the bath get used at all?
Its very tight for both a bath and a shower(Can you give measurements)



If you can why not get rid of the bath and put in a double sink vanity and a large walk in shower.
Another piece of advice would be find a picture of a bathroom you like and work towards it, dont just make it up on the spot. So many little details add up to create a great bathroom. For example I trimmed my freestanding shower screen in black U channel (Not the normal chrome one the shop wanted to supply) on all 4 sides instead of just 2 and it made such a big difference to the overall look of the place.
Find an image and work towards it otherwise it'll be a bog standard bathroom renovation.

Seannash would you mind sharing a photo of your shower with the u-channel, definately would be interested to do something like this too. Did u get someone to make it for you

seannash

James 007 wrote: »

Seannash would you mind sharing a photo of your shower with the u-channel, definately would be interested to do something like this too. Did u get someone to make it for you

Apologoes James i just saw this now.
https://imgur.com/gallery/dzarau1

Didnt get anyome to make it for me, i just talked to the glazier who was installing rhe glass and told him i wanted blqck u channel on all 4 sides, mitred on the corners and he said no bother. Cost was 400euro but the glass is 12mm thick as its freestanding (no bar going across the top of it)

ted1

James 007 wrote: »

Photos attached again

I’d that where the tray is staying. Or are you going to pull off the panelling to get the tray to fit?

James 007

seannash wrote: »

Apologoes James i just saw this now.
https://imgur.com/gallery/dzarau1

Didnt get anyome to make it for me, i just talked to the glazier who was installing rhe glass and told him i wanted blqck u channel on all 4 sides, mitred on the corners and he said no bother. Cost was 400euro but the glass is 12mm thick as its freestanding (no bar going across the top of it)

I like this seannash, can I ask what kind of lighting do you have in the room, I am looking for some black type industrial hanging lights, anyway this is just a thought at the moment but if you could let us know your type of lighting, thanks

James 007

ted1 wrote: »

I’d that where the tray is staying. Or are you going to pull off the panelling to get the tray to fit?

It was originally planned to just put in a shower, a new towel radiator & a lick of paint, leaving the bath, sink & toilet where they are were located. I had planned to hold onto the wood panelling, outside the shower area in that photo if the originally plan was to go forward.

I now have changed the whole design to try & incorporate a male & female washbasins, photos to follow:rolleyes:

James 007

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James 007

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seannash

James 007 wrote: »

I like this seannash, can I ask what kind of lighting do you have in the room, I am looking for some black type industrial hanging lights, anyway this is just a thought at the moment but if you could let us know your type of lighting, thanks

Sure, the overhead light is from Dowsing and Reynolds and the lights beside the vanity are from West Elm. All online stores. Others to consider are Made.com and Cult furniture. You should be able to find some industrial stuff on those sites

James 007

seannash wrote: »

Sure, the overhead light is from Dowsing and Reynolds and the lights beside the vanity are from West Elm. All online stores. Others to consider are Made.com and Cult furniture. You should be able to find some industrial stuff on those sites

Thanks seannash some lovely lights in those websites. I also came across this website too which seems to have exactly what i was looking for.

https://cusacklighting.ie/collections/bathroom-wall-lights/products/swan-neck-outdoor-bathroom-wall-light-pewter-tube-glass?variant=31679099437169

Original manufacturers here:
https://www.industville.co.uk/collections/vintage-style-bathroom-lighting/ip-rating_ip44?page=2&sort_by=price-ascending

seannash

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks seannash some lovely lights in those websites. I also came across this website too which seems to have exactly what i was looking for.

https://cusacklighting.ie/collections/bathroom-wall-lights/products/swan-neck-outdoor-bathroom-wall-light-pewter-tube-glass?variant=31679099437169

Original manufacturers here:
https://www.industville.co.uk/collections/vintage-style-bathroom-lighting/ip-rating_ip44?page=2&sort_by=price-ascending

Nice find, thats a great looking light fixture

James 007

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Change of design, bathtub wont fit to my configuration. Its really thrown a spanner in the works. It works ok when sitting on the toilet, you have 2 inches either side, but from a look perspective its too tight:o

James 007

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seannash wrote: »

Nice find, thats a great looking light fixture

I needed to gather my thoughts today & went viewing some fittings, some nice external lights, all classed as IP44 so should be suitable for bathroom too, at reasonable price, would be interested if anyone has used these for such a setting.

James 007

Plumbing done for now, onto fitting the shower tray & waste outlet, photos to follow tomorrow

James 007

Attached showing the plumbing for the wash basins, glad thats done & all in working order for both hot & cold feeds. Shower tray put down yesterday on a sand/cement bed & tested, waste working fine to outlet.

James 007

Anyone have thoughts about running the qualplex above floor level behind the wood panelling as I have done in the 3rd photo. The floor tiles will run in as far as possible should I ever wish to remove the panelling & tile at a late stage. I ran the lines above floor so that I could have access in the event of a leak.

When I uploaded the photo this morning, the first thing that came into my head was why I didnt run it through the floor joists & keep all within the floor joist depth, with no access. I know they are probably never expected to leak but welcome anyones views

2011

James 007 wrote: »

Anyone have thoughts about running the qualplex above floor level behind the wood panelling as I have done in the 3rd photo.

I don't see an issue.

Just reading your thread with interest as you linked to my bathroom thread in your 1st post

The floor tiles will run in as far as possible should I ever wish to remove the panelling & tile at a late stage.

Personally I would try to do everything once. So if yo decide to go for wood paneling then do it and move on. Don't do it with a plan to change it out later.

I ran the lines above floor so that I could have access in the event of a leak.

Speaking as an amateur plumber I would:
1) Use descent compression fittings and install them using high quality proper fitting spanners.
2) I pressure test everything before "closing up".
3) Always install as few connections as possible.
4) Then I would not worry about a leak. I have installed many connections over the last few decades, so far none have leaked.

James 007

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114316075#post114316075

See attached electrical proposals & lighting. Also Meercat comments, very much welcome, hopefully I will try & have both threads merged

James 007

2011 wrote: »

I don't see an issue.

Just reading your thread with interest as you linked to my bathroom thread in your 1st post



Personally I would try to do everything once. So if yo decide to go for wood paneling then do it and move on. Don't do it with a plan to change it out later.



Speaking as an amateur plumber I would:
1) Use descent compression fittings and install them using high quality proper fitting spanners.
2) I pressure test everything before "closing up".
3) Always install as few connections as possible.
4) Then I would not worry about a leak. I have installed many connections over the last few decades, so far none have leaked.

Thanks 2011, yes I really liked your thread, wasn't confident enough to install a wetroom over my kitchen though. I do plan to place magnesium oxide boards on the shower walls & tank all with a flexible tanking system. Where do you pressure test connect from & what equipment do you use, link below with what I have found
https://www.screwfix.ie/c/tools/plumbing-testing-equipment/cat831346

I agree with you with regards to either wood panelling or tiling. I definately made up my mind to go with the shower wall for complete length & height with tiling & then the rest of the walls with either 1/2 way up tiling or wood panelling. Attached photo shows how un level the window wall is. My preference is heading towards wood panelling at the moment as a different colour paint a few years down the line will give it a different feel.

2011

James 007 wrote: »

wasn't confident enough to install a wetroom over my kitchen though.

It really isn't any harder than what you are doing. Regardless of whether you decide to go for a wet room or not I suggest:

1) Use cement board in the wet shower area. Three 8 x 4 sheets will most likely do you (great prices on this in Chadwicks). Just seal the joins with Marmox sealant, apply the Marmox over the same joints and penetrations.
2) For around €150 you could buy a matching cement board shower tray. Tile adhesive is best used to hold this in place (no penetrations). This comes complete with the trap. Seal this to the cement board in the same way.
3) Tank everything, then tile. Take the view the purpose of the tiling is not to make the shower area waterproof. It should be fully waterproof before a single tile is applied.

In my opinion the above is the lowest risk approach. I am always concerned about the joint between the conventional shower tray and plater board / cement board / concrete wall.

I do plan to place magnesium oxide boards on the shower walls & tank all with a flexible tanking system.

I am not familiar with this product. I assume that it has similar properties to cement board? Maybe it is even better, I don't know.

Where do you pressure test connect from & what equipment do you use

I should have explained this better. I didn't do anything fancy. I just made any installed pipes "live" and checked all joints before closing up. I also ran the shower for a while before slabbing. Following careful observation of all connections on pipework at normal operating pressure for several days I felt confident.

A few tips:

1) Use flexible grout and tile adhesive.
2) Support cement board, shower tray, magnesium oxide boards extremely well. You want zero movement or you will have trouble down the road. This means plywood on the floor and very solid battens on the walls.
3) Try to avoid the use of pipe grips and such like for pumping connections. These tend to make the circular parts of the connector oval. Instead use proper spanners and throughly tighten. Also apply Bosswhite (or similar).
4) Be very generous with tanking kit.
5) Rent proper power tools when you need them. I used rented a massive Hilti drill and 4" masonry hole saw and a huge industrial vacuum cleaner.

Good luck!

2011

Just to add: I would not install a bath. I know that many will disagree (each to their own) but this is why I wouldn’t:
1) I did this twice before and they were never used 😄. It was an enormous amount of extra work and expense for nothing. The seal between the bath and the wall can be difficult.

2) in most cases this allows for a far larger shower. The bigger the shower the better. If the shower is large enough the requirement for doors can be avoided. In my experience high quality doors are very expensive and all doors break eventually. The only difference is the expensive ones last longer. No doors also means easier cleaning

3) No bath means far more space in the bathroom and a cleaner look.

5) Massive schedule reduction.

6) You can’t beat a good shower

By the way this is the toiled I used:
https://m.ebay.ie/itm/ROCA-GAP-Close-Coupled-WC-Toilet-Rimless-WC-Cistern-Soft-Closing-Seat-Option/264162098835?ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/5282-53468-19255-0/1?ff3=2&toolid=10039&campid=5338471181&customid=101_205_269&item=264162098835&vectorid=229543&lgeo=1&srcrot=5282-53468-19255-0&rvr_id=2558109783860&rvr_ts=f683fec11730a6e55924c09dffc5a29b&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true&pageci=6d44dd78-6386-419e-ac17-a34d00baeaac

Easy to install and easy cleaning afterwards as it seals totally to the wall and is rimless.

James 007

2011 wrote: »

It really isn't any harder than what you are doing. Regardless of whether you decide to go for a wet room or not I suggest:

1) Use cement board in the wet shower area. Three 8 x 4 sheets will most likely do you (great prices on this in Chadwicks). Just seal the joins with Marmox sealant, apply the Marmox over the same joints and penetrations.
2) For around €150 you could buy a matching cement board shower tray. Tile adhesive is best used to hold this in place (no penetrations). This comes complete with the trap. Seal this to the cement board in the same way.
3) Tank everything, then tile. Take the view the purpose of the tiling is not to make the shower area waterproof. It should be fully waterproof before a single tile is applied.

In my opinion the above is the lowest risk approach. I am always concerned about the joint between the conventional shower tray and plater board / cement board / concrete wall.



I am not familiar with this product. I assume that it has similar properties to cement board? Maybe it is even better, I don't know.



I should have explained this better. I didn't do anything fancy. I just made any installed pipes "live" and checked all joints before closing up. I also ran the shower for a while before slabbing. Following careful observation of all connections on pipework at normal operating pressure for several days I felt confident.

A few tips:

1) Use flexible grout and tile adhesive.
2) Support cement board, shower tray, magnesium oxide boards extremely well. You want zero movement or you will have trouble down the road. This means plywood on the floor and very solid battens on the walls.
3) Try to avoid the use of pipe grips and such like for pumping connections. These tend to make the circular parts of the connector oval. Instead use proper spanners and throughly tighten. Also apply Bosswhite (or similar).
4) Be very generous with tanking kit.
5) Rent proper power tools when you need them. I used rented a massive Hilti drill and 4" masonry hole saw and a huge industrial vacuum cleaner.

Good luck!

Thanks 2011,

I have run the shower over the last few days & its currently running again now, it will be open for another while yet so have more time to test it. The magnesium board is 1/2 inch so I will ensure my wall fixings are spaced closer together. The tanking kit i have plenty so I do intend to use it all up. I have run the heating system & have checked all supply lines are feeding both cold & hot water, also checked the radiator too for infeed hot supply.

I have been thinking of getting extra light into the bathroom by having a velux installed now too. I dont want to come back to it later & probably would prefer it to be installed as everything is stripped back. Half thinking about doing it myself but I think it would take me 5 times the amount of time as a person experienced at doing it. I'll do all the donkey work identifying the location & stripping back the ceiling panelling. Can anyone recommend someone to complete this work.

James 007

2011 wrote: »

Just to add: I would not install a bath. I know that many will disagree (each to their own) but this is why I wouldn’t:
1) I did this twice before and they were never used 😄. It was an enormous amount of extra work and expense for nothing. The seal between the bath and the wall can be difficult.

2) in most cases this allows for a far larger shower. The bigger the shower the better. If the shower is large enough the requirement for doors can be avoided. In my experience high quality doors are very expensive and all doors break eventually. The only difference is the expensive ones last longer. No doors also means easier cleaning

3) No bath means far more space in the bathroom and a cleaner look.

5) Massive schedule reduction.

6) You can’t beat a good shower

By the way this is the toiled I used:
https://m.ebay.ie/itm/ROCA-GAP-Close-Coupled-WC-Toilet-Rimless-WC-Cistern-Soft-Closing-Seat-Option/264162098835?ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/5282-53468-19255-0/1?ff3=2&toolid=10039&campid=5338471181&customid=101_205_269&item=264162098835&vectorid=229543&lgeo=1&srcrot=5282-53468-19255-0&rvr_id=2558109783860&rvr_ts=f683fec11730a6e55924c09dffc5a29b&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true&pageci=6d44dd78-6386-419e-ac17-a34d00baeaac

Easy to install and easy cleaning afterwards as it seals totally to the wall and is rimless.

Yes I thought of this too for a long time, & my bathroom would of suited a long shower up to 2.3m max, so could of accommodated one with built out shelving for shower shampoos etc, many people have said it to me & some said the opposite. For me there are times that I have used the bath just to relax for a certain period of time. I have decided to go with one, restrict the length & width so as to reduce floor taken up by it.

2011

James 007 wrote: »

I have run the shower over the last few days & its currently running again now, it will be open for another while yet so have more time to test it.

Sounds good.

The magnesium board is 1/2 inch so I will ensure my wall fixings are spaced closer together.

Just to be clear: every fixing through the board is a hole you will have to seal throughly. What you need to do is ensure that there are plenty of wooden battens supporting the board really well.

What are you doing on the floor? It is best not to tile directly onto wood even if it is tanked. I would suggest cement board stuck to plywood with tile adhesive, then tank.

The tanking kit i have plenty so I do intend to use it all up. I have run the heating system & have checked all supply lines are feeding both cold & hot water, also checked the radiator too for infeed hot supply.

Sounds good. I would use tape, then tank.

I have been thinking of getting extra light into the bathroom by having a velux installed now too.

I would love to have a Vellux in mine. However I would only install a motorized one, press the button and it opens. This would be a massive advantage to a room with a shower. Honestly you won’t regret it and you plant to alter the electrics anyway.

James 007

Wall 1 - Will be fully tiled floor to ceiling
Wall 2,3 - Will be putting back in wood panelling, same height as before, paint above
Wall 4 - At shower area, tiled floor to ceiling, wood panelling to the left hand side of the door, as is already, paint above

Hope the above makes sense. I plan to put the magnesium board directly onto Wall 1 & part Wall 3 at shower area only, once all bonding has been put in to smooth out the surfaces.

For the floor, I have already put 6mm plywood under the shower tray at floor level its about 1200 long by 800mm so extends beyond the shower tray foot print. I plan to replicate on all the floor before tiling. I am using 20mm screws at approx. 100mm c/c both directions & laying the longer side opposite the floor boards & having them staggered too. Once done I plan to just finish with any tanking left but I suspect I will use a good bit in the shower area. After this I will lay over with the tiles.

James 007

Attached photo shows the 6mm marine plywood to the floor surface.

To enter my shower, one needs to enter the shorter side, as I didn't want to have a step on the long side as it interferes with someones pathway as they enter the bathroom area. In hindsight perhaps I should of got a 1500mm tray & the step would be further away however this would of covered up the view to the bathtub & hence why I went against it.

I am putting in a raised area demonstrated in photo 2 & 3, its stepped back about 8 inches from the shower edge. It will be approx. 500mm square. The height is yet to be decided, either I will run with the height showing in the photo, just to the underside of where the shower commences, therefore the small step into the shower will be compensated with one of these cut to suit.

https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/hyllen-floor-decking-acacia-20419935/

The alternative too is to bring it exactly level with the top of the shower base, eliminating the need for the floor deck.

In both cases the step-in will be tiled with the same floor tiles.

2011

My thoughts:

1) Why have a raised area at all? Is this to get a fall on the shower waste?

2) Test the shower waste to ensure that the fall is sufficient.

3) I would worry about the floor tiles without a thicker plywood providing additional support (at least ¾"). 6mm is very flexible and the floorboards don't look that solid from the photo (I could be wrong). Remember even the slightest give on any surface that is going to be tiled will result in cracked tiles. This would also reduce the step tot eh raised area.

4) Is the shower, toilet, sink or bath on an outside wall? Or is an existing waste being reused?

5) Consider 6mm cement board on the floor. This would be cheap and quick to install.

6) Motorised Vellux?

James 007

2011 wrote: »

My thoughts:

1) Why have a raised area at all? Is this to get a fall on the shower waste?

2) Test the shower waste to ensure that the fall is sufficient.

3) I would worry about the floor tiles without a thicker plywood providing additional support (at least ¾"). 6mm is very flexible and the floorboards don't look that solid from the photo (I could be wrong). Remember even the slightest give on any surface that is going to be tiled will result in cracked tiles. This would also reduce the step tot eh raised area.

4) Is the shower, toilet, sink or bath on an outside wall? Or is an existing waste being reused?

5) Consider 6mm cement board on the floor. This would be cheap and quick to install.

6) Motorised Vellux?

1) Yes, the waste is above floor level as it runs at 90 degrees to the floor joists, hence why its above floor level

2) I have tested the shower waste & it works fine. I have limited gradient to play with, but it does flow out into the soil & vent pipe fine. My 2 inch wastes are not sealed fully with Mr Griffon, as I plan to temporarily lift them when working on the walls etc.

3)The floor boards are fairly solid, they are 20mm thick & a sheet of ply is an extra 6mm giving a total thickness of 26mm. I'll have to think about using cement board. I originally planned to put it down but the building merchants didn't have any in stock at the time.

4) The toilet will be on the extreme right hand side of Wall 2 using the existing soil & vent outlet at this location. Sinks & bath will probably connect into the 2 inch waste that feeds out from the wall, same waste as the shower.

5) As above

6) Motorised velux or just centre pivot. The velux is reachable from floor level & a rod mechanism should be ok to open & close it, but I will think about the electrical option. I suppose just concerned about if it failed.

Thanks 2011, appreciate all the feedback

2011

Fair enough. Sounds good. Please keep posting photos. Good luck!

James 007

All I was looking to have a 0.66m x 1.4m velux window installed on the 22.5 degree slated lean to roof in the bathroom to let in a bit more light however I have now found that the roof has no felt at all.

Note that the roof as it stands does not leak at present. I know the felt acts as a wind barrier but it is also a second line of defence against the rainwater.

Am I now best not touching this roof & abandoning the plan to install a velux window, any thoughts or has anyone done it before:(

James 007

Progress is slow this week due to work commitments. Marking out light locations & completing the chasing for the electrical cables. Client has requested the installation of a velux window so I need to strip back the ceiling today.

2011

Normally chases for electrical cables are vertical. There are a number of reasons for this, one is so that at a future date cables locations can be predicted with reasonable certainty (directly above or below a wall light, switch, socket etc.). When vertical chases are not possible (for more than a few inches) the regulations state that the cabling be provided with a high degree of mechanical protection (such as a steel conduit). This to mitigate the risk of someone drilling through the cable. Vertical chases generally reduce the amount of chasing required too, although it often means more cable routing required above the ceiling. It is tough laborious work, I tended to use a grinder and finish with a kango. The dust was horrific but I could get all of the chasing completed rapidly.

James 007

Yes, I know & I had planned to put in the metal conduit for these runs, however am now thinking of just doing some small vertical drops to the light switches & running the cables through the rafters (since I am now planning to take these down to fit the velux window) to one single point with a vertical drop just over the hinge side of the door, its probably safer in the long run & avoids the horizontal runs.

I suppose I really should of made that velux window decision a bit sooner:rolleyes:

2011

James 007 wrote: »

am now thinking of just doing some small vertical drops to the light switches & running the cables through the rafters (since I am now planning to take these down to fit the velux window) to one single point with a vertical drop just over the hinge side of the door, its probably safer in the long run & avoids the horizontal runs.

Good call, I think that would be best.

James 007

Done, chasing complete & roof stripped. Now to get a velux in within the next few weeks. Window wall needs to be levelled out a bit so some boring work to follow.

James 007

Having posted here for awhile, looking for quotes to install a velux window & its proving a lot harder to find someone at short notice & at a decent price, any recommendations welcome.

I have had the highest quote come in at close to 3K & thats just to supply & install velux window 550 x 1180 centre pivot, flashing & cut slate to suit. All the ceiling panelling is removed & the rafters are exposed from the inside. There is only a requirement to cut one middle rafter & provide based trims.

I think I'm been short changed here. :rolleyes: