Additional electrical lights to bathroom

James 007 · 13-08-2020 11:44am #1

I am looking to install additional lights to our bathroom renovation. Currently there is a one way switch light switch feeding 4 spotlights & an airvent fan.

What I am looking to do is install two lights over a male/female counter top bowels & one light over the bathtub. Also would like to run a twin core & earth to the fan leave disconnected for future use (in case I install a more industrial looking fan at a later stage).

The proposed lights that I am looking to use will need twin core & earth, as they are the type shown with the metal heads, These are outdoor lights, but are rated IP44, I'd expect to install all in Zone 3 areas.

Can I replace the single one way switch with a double switch with a junction box outside the bathroom to run in the seperate cables.

meercat · 13-08-2020 11:52am

James 007 wrote: »

I am looking to install additional lights to our bathroom renovation. Currently there is a one way switch light switch feeding 4 spotlights & an airvent fan.

What I am looking to do is install two lights over a male/female counter top bowels & one light over the bathtub. Also would like to run a twin core & earth to the fan leave disconnected for future use (in case I install a more industrial looking fan at a later stage).

The proposed lights that I am looking to use will need twin core & earth, as they are the type shown with the metal heads, These are outdoor lights, but are rated IP44, I'd expect to install all in Zone 3 areas.

Can I replace the single one way switch with a double switch with a junction box outside the bathroom to run in the seperate cables.

Only a registered electrical contractor is permitted to do this work.

James 007 · 15-08-2020 1:46pm

Thanks meercat, I think you are right on this one. Better safe then sorry. Can I ask is it best to get an electrician in to give a quote for the work & see whats involved, & I'll do all the chasing out of the walls for the new lines. Is this the best approach top take

meercat · 15-08-2020 3:30pm

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks meercat, I think you are right on this one. Better safe then sorry. Can I ask is it best to get an electrician in to give a quote for the work & see whats involved, & I'll do all the chasing out of the walls for the new lines. Is this the best approach top take

I see your bathroom renovation thread and you’re doing a mighty job. As a contractor I’d be more than happy for someone to do all the chasing for me. It’ll be difficult I’d imagine to get a rec to call and quote you for this type of work. Most bathroom refit companies would include electrical work in the price and a lot of rec tend to avoid this type of work. Ask for an estimate over the phone and forward photos (including distribution board)and distance from board to bathroom.this will save your rec time and money calling to give an estimate for a job he mightn’t get. This renovation work requires a new light circuit back to db with rcbo protection. Any Electrical heaters/showers or underfloor heating require their own seperate circuits too.

James 007 · 15-08-2020 4:54pm

meercat wrote: »

I see your bathroom renovation thread and you’re doing a mighty job. As a contractor I’d be more than happy for someone to do all the chasing for me. It’ll be difficult I’d imagine to get a rec to call and quote you for this type of work. Most bathroom refit companies would include electrical work in the price and a lot of rec tend to avoid this type of work. Ask for an estimate over the phone and forward photos (including distribution board)and distance from board to bathroom.this will save your rec time and money calling to give an estimate for a job he mightn’t get. This renovation work requires a new light circuit back to db with rcbo protection. Any Electrical heaters/showers or underfloor heating require their own seperate circuits too.

Thanks Meercat, I just read online that where the light switch doesn't have a twin core & earth then its not suitable to take the light fittings that I am proposing to use. See link below to what I was reading.

https://community.screwfix.com/threads/no-earth-in-lighting-circuit.25528/

I would hazard a guess that the cabling is probably 30-40years old anyway. I'll do exactly what you said regards to making phone calls & sending on photos. I may be lucky that the DB is under the stairs & the light switch is just on the landing when you come up the stairs, so a short run.

For the new lights I am planning to put in two of the following over the two wash basins, so high up, Zone 3, but these are IP44 rated.
https://brightlights.ie/6344-003

For just outside the shower area I am looking to put in the below, in a Zone 2 area, again IP44 rated.
https://brightlights.ie/40779-002

What are your thoughts on these new lights. I will be leaving in the spotlights which will operate from the existing switch location. The new lights will operate from a pull chord in the bathroom or making the single switch a double switch. Can I ask can both circuits be wired to the extractor fan. Note my new lights are kind of mood lights & hope to have them not so bright using edison bulbs, 60w.

The electrical shower & cabling is new, as it was installed less than 10 years ago & a 40amp RCB was put in place at the DB, so hope this is still fine.

Can you recommend best bathroom fan for a 2.5m x 2.5m bathroom, the existing one is located on the external wall & works, make Airvent, for the new bathroom setup it will be located in a zone 3 area, but I would prefer an IP44 rating or better. I will also ensure a twin core and earth is chased out for this one too, in case a metal recommendation comes in the future.

James 007 · 15-08-2020 4:59pm

Meercat you might let us have your comments in the bathroom renovation thread, I will link in the this thread too & try & get them merged, thanks

meercat · 15-08-2020 6:26pm

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks Meercat, I just read online that where the light switch doesn't have a twin core & earth then its not suitable to take the light fittings that I am proposing to use. See link below to what I was reading.

https://community.screwfix.com/threads/no-earth-in-lighting-circuit.25528/

I would hazard a guess that the cabling is probably 30-40years old anyway. I'll do exactly what you said regards to making phone calls & sending on photos. I may be lucky that the DB is under the stairs & the light switch is just on the landing when you come up the stairs, so a short run.

For the new lights I am planning to put in two of the following over the two wash basins, so high up, Zone 3, but these are IP44 rated.
https://brightlights.ie/6344-003

For just outside the shower area I am looking to put in the below, in a Zone 2 area, again IP44 rated.
https://brightlights.ie/40779-002

What are your thoughts on these new lights. I will be leaving in the spotlights which will operate from the existing switch location. The new lights will operate from a pull chord in the bathroom or making the single switch a double switch. Can I ask can both circuits be wired to the extractor fan. Note my new lights are kind of mood lights & hope to have them not so bright using edison bulbs, 60w.

The electrical shower & cabling is new, as it was installed less than 10 years ago & a 40amp RCB was put in place at the DB, so hope this is still fine.

Can you recommend best bathroom fan for a 2.5m x 2.5m bathroom, the existing one is located on the external wall & works, make Airvent, for the new bathroom setup it will be located in a zone 3 area, but I would prefer an IP44 rating or better. I will also ensure a twin core and earth is chased out for this one too, in case a metal recommendation comes in the future.

My advice is to get a rec to totally redo your bathroom light circuit and fan.
I’d recommend an inline fan if you have attic space or a selv fan(low voltage)
Your fan will also require an isolator(depending on what you go for)and a separate switch.
Because you need a circuit from the db for your new wiring it would be best to connect your downlighting to this new switch too. A 3 gang switch (downlighting,wall lights and fan)the new switch should not be higher than 1200mm.

You mightn’t like to hear this either but when your rec is connecting your new circuits to your db then he has to issue a notice of potential hazard as your db is under the stairs. Once he takes the cover off the db then he also has to ensure the main cables are suitable for the load (including your existing shower)and earthing arrangements are up to requirements which I’d suspect their not.

James 007 · 15-08-2020 8:18pm

:rolleyes:

I guess I will stick with my existing 4 spotlights & leave all as is.

What would be a recommended course of action in that case, move it some where where it can be ventilated better ie. hallway up high & proper casing, a new DB board meercat. what cost would be involved in this do you think.

https://safeelectric.ie/help-advice/notice-of-potential-hazard/

https://safeelectric.ie/contractors/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/09/2016dec_news.pdf

meercat · 15-08-2020 9:21pm

James 007 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I guess I will stick with my existing 4 spotlights & leave all as is.

What would be a recommended course of action in that case, move it some where where it can be ventilated better ie. hallway up high & proper casing, a new DB board meercat. what cost would be involved in this do you think.

https://safeelectric.ie/help-advice/notice-of-potential-hazard/

https://safeelectric.ie/contractors/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/09/2016dec_news.pdf

You cannot be forced to undertake any upgrades to distribution board once a nph is issued. Esbn will write to you saying they have been notified of a potential hazard.its up to the house holder what actions(if any) are undertaken. My advice would still be to upgrade electrics in bathroom area and this would prevent any electrical work having to be done (In your bathroom)in future should your installation be rewired.(which is the most likely requirement for an installation this age)

James 007 · 15-08-2020 11:18pm

No problems meercat, the 3 gang switch to include a switch for the fan, is there a reason for having a fan switch. If you have an isolator switch only & have it placed up high over the bathroom door, outside the bathroom would this suffice. I am just thinking if you have a fan switch then it could be left off all the time. Could this be avoided, am I reading this correctly.

I just opened the ceiling rose to the hallway light in the hall on the same level & whilst there is an earth terminal there, there are no earth cables connected to it, so no earths to the light switches & ceiling rose, so definately need the earth connection back to the DB.

meercat · 16-08-2020 10:10am

James 007 wrote: »

No problems meercat, the 3 gang switch to include a switch for the fan, is there a reason for having a fan switch. If you have an isolator switch only & have it placed up high over the bathroom door, outside the bathroom would this suffice. I am just thinking if you have a fan switch then it could be left off all the time. Could this be avoided, am I reading this correctly.

I just opened the ceiling rose to the hallway light in the hall on the same level & whilst there is an earth terminal there, there are no earth cables connected to it, so no earths to the light switches & ceiling rose, so definately need the earth connection back to the DB.

If you’re getting new cables in bathroom then you need a new circuit which will include an earth. A rec is only permitted to do this. I’d switch everything from a new 3 gang switch for neatness and convenience. An isolator is also required for the extraction fan. This isolator must be less than 1200mm height. It cannot go above door. Your rec will be able to advise on positioning.

James 007 · 16-08-2020 1:08pm

Thanks Meercat, I will be taking your advice onboard regarding getting in the Reci, wont be doing it myself. Im just thinking of not having the fan turned on when the shower/bath is in use, something which I was hoping to avoid.

The bathroom slated roof/ceiling is a lean to, to the main house rear wall. I was thinking over the last few days to put in a velux window as the current window does not allow enough light into the area. Would it make more sense now to put in a new extract fan over the shower & bath area & flexi out directly using a vent cap on the roof. This way the reach distance is eliminated. I know my brother has one of these, they seem to cause draughts into the room space, any thoughts, thanks.

meercat · 16-08-2020 6:59pm

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks Meercat, I will be taking your advice onboard regarding getting in the Reci, wont be doing it myself. Im just thinking of not having the fan turned on when the shower/bath is in use, something which I was hoping to avoid.

The bathroom slated roof/ceiling is a lean to, to the main house rear wall. I was thinking over the last few days to put in a velux window as the current window does not allow enough light into the area. Would it make more sense now to put in a new extract fan over the shower & bath area & flexi out directly using a vent cap on the roof. This way the reach distance is eliminated. I know my brother has one of these, they seem to cause draughts into the room space, any thoughts, thanks.

I’ve already said to put your fan Ona seperate switch for the reasons you’ve outlined
I wouldn’t put the fan directly over the bath/shower for safety (unless selv)or draughts.
My advice would be to draw the air across the room and vent there.
Try an icon bathroom fan that closes when not in use.(subject to zones)

https://www.ideas4lighting.com/shop-by-type-c1/electrical-supplies-c33/ventilation-c126/airflow-icon-15-powerful-and-quiet-bathroom-fan-240v-auto-shutter-p5182/s5984?wid=1&cid=EUR&glCurrency=EUR&glCountry=IE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkdizuKmg6wIVGO7tCh3nfgibEAQYBCABEgLBxvD_BwE

James 007 · 16-08-2020 7:48pm

Thanks meercat I will run with one of those. It makes sense to keep it away from the shower/bath. I have an Airvent in the downstairs shower room & it doesnt work for the very reason its right over the shower. It was the only place to locate it. The shower is closed on 3 sides & only has a 4inch gap to the to top of the shower door, probably best to remove this existing fan & close in the shower all together. This way all the steam is contained in the shower. There is no mould & the bathroom ceiling paint to this 2 x 1m shower room is holding up well since it was painted a good few years ago now.

Additional electrical lights to bathroom

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