Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

visatorro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124000#Comment_122124000

Always voted but I don't think I'll bother voting. Does anyone really make a difference.

In fairness mings heart is probably in the right place. Independents are able to speak there mind in the chamber because they've no-one to answer to. But soundbites don't get anything done. In reality the civil service run the country.

I'll get my manifesto ready for the general election and give it a go. MAKE FARMING GREAT AGAIN

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122125986#Comment_122125986

I told them it was too rich for my pickings and there was no hard feelings and maybe it'll work out another time.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122126589#Comment_122126589

You were dead right too too, I walked a place last spring the best of limestone land but ran out it went for 400 after for 7 years, it didn’t last a year. Went up again this spring a friend of mine enquired about it as one of his leased blocks was up that he has renewed since, anyway the man leasing was still at 400 and up to last week he still has no one got for it. A good tenant at lesser money is worth a lot more than the farmers journal prices we see quoted but a lot of the people leasing are retired with no successor so can’t blame them for wanting to get the most money they can either but finding someone to pay big money and run the course of a lease is the problem.

Hopefully things settle some bit in the coming years and allow those who want to farm the opportunity to continue farming, not many can afford to buy farms in the current climate when farming is the only source of income.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122126105#Comment_122126105

I think the it's European elections where it's all decided the department of agriculture get to make representation in Europe on our behalf. Or not on our behalf if you know what I mean.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123289#Comment_122123289

Thoroughly agree. French farmers demanding to drop sfp completely and enforce EU regs on everything imported into the EU.
As regards Tamsxxx, aren’t you kinda pulling up the ladder after you’ve your new parlor, sheds, etc in place?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122127744#Comment_122127744

The EU parliament can't really decide on anything unless the commission allow them to decide on it

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128498#Comment_122128498

That is not true. The EU parliament passes legislation all the time that is enshrined in law. The commission initiates it ( the Parliament cannot initiate it) however tge commission to be effective has to get the Parliament to pass the legislation

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128468#Comment_122128468

I’d be inclined to agree with the French farmers on that one. I think it’s fair enough for grants for new farm buildings to continue to be made available but paying out money in the form of single farm payment subsidies year after year is outrageous. We’re suppose to live in a capitalist society. If a persons business can’t make money then tough luck to them, it’s harsh but it’s the truth

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128687#Comment_122128687

Sooooo the subs received by every business in the country regarding employees building grants development grants etc etc etc......there all going as well right ...... they are going right. Yere all talking throuh yere collective holes. The myth that agriculture is the most subsidised industry in the eu is a complete myth. If ag had to stand on its own two feet I think there would be societal breakdown in a matter of a few weeks . That and complete land abandonment on a massive scale

One business beside me recently received 80k because it has a r and d . Wing of its business. Now the last thing they researched was how to claim grants and the last thing they developed was a strategy for maximising them 🤣

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128784#Comment_122128784

I literally said in like the first line of my post I think it’s fair enough for people to receive grants for new buildings, I don’t need any new buildings personally but best of luck to anyone that could make use of such grants. What I’m against is giving money to people to sustain their businesses that can’t stand on their own 2 feet. If there would be a lot of land abandonment then so be it. If a persons business can’t make money they should shut it down and not ask the taxpayers to prop them up

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128804#Comment_122128804

but the important part you are missing is that all ag. food imports would nedd to be produced to the same standards of EU regulation

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128687#Comment_122128687

It'd have to be all gone or nothing gone.

Subs drive the price of whatever they are paid on. Some argue that subs keep other people in business that provide that trade or material. But there's another argument in the first place that subs only drive upward only inflation and don't allow for competition when markets naturally fall in an unsubbed capitalist world.

Ten years ago I made a point on here that all farm subsidies should go. I was shouted down by could be the same posters that would now like to see them gone. What changed in the meantime to change opinions? Cross convergence, the reduction in overall payment allowed, levelling of entitlements. At the time I'd wager some were getting in the tens of thousands could be in the hundreds of thousands of a sfp. Now that's back and there's an element of bitterness about it. Whereas I at the time was getting what would buy maybe four bullocks.

People's stances are mostly always a personal view.

kevthegaff

Sfp and grants have made it more expensive to produce food in Europe, look at the minute a grant comes like lime etc, the supplier ups the price. The knock on is higher land prices which then contributes to deforestation in Brazil and dumping of Dairy products in Africa. These political decisions affect small farmers in other continents, leading to more migration to Europe. Their all related even if we don't like to admit it.

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128850#Comment_122128850

Ya I see what you’re saying. I suppose it would only be right if the whole lot of the grants were gotten rid of. Even the grants for milking parlours etc.… if a farm itself can’t afford to put up buildings in order to function then that farm shouldn’t be in business in the first place. I think it totally goes over ordinary people’s heads how much money is given to farmers each year in the single farm payment for basically doing nothing. I don’t begrudge anyone one bit that’s making a fortune from their single farm payments but I think it hinders progressive young farmers

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128866#Comment_122128866

The whole point of it was to keep farming families evenly distributed throughout the farming landscape of the EU.

If it goes it's straight away more Coolmore's or more like my local companies buying up even faster what they can get their hands on. These corporations don't know the word stop. They judge themselves on % growth and acquisition every year. You get workers then if it's not policed properly then with no hold to the place and really don't give a fiddlers what they do every day. If livestock standards can slip. If agronomy can be rough operators of machinery and on land.

I've come to the view there's no real perfect system.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128804#Comment_122128804

Yes yes you did but what yere not getting is that there's no such thing as free capitalism.all industrys are propped up in one way o another . Ag is on the hind tit. But they make a big deal about it as there's a simple trail of paperwork. It's a central eu budget. The bureaucrats are well lobbied and looked after in a way that they will look the other way whenit comes to propping up the big money outfits

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128921#Comment_122128921

I’m inclined to agree - what big business would survive without govt support? They lobby hard and they get all sorts of tax breaks, rebates, lower employee rights, hard cash in the case of the banks a few years back, the list is endless. Would Apple or Facebook or other tech companies manage if they had to pay their full whack of tax like the rest of us?

Even thru farmer/agri subsidies - co-ops and supermarkets benefit as much as farmers coz they can pay less for what we produce safe in the knowledge the EU makes up the difference. I know CAP is partly supposed to keep food available/cheap but big business certainly gets it’s cut indirectly too.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129138#Comment_122129138

It's there since the Romans figured it out

...bread and circuses 🎪 keep the population satisfied and away you go that's a good while ago it was subsidies to keep the people from starvation

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128921#Comment_122128921

Absolutely, eg where would the airline industry be without the Chicago agreement?

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128687#Comment_122128687

The problem is the massive imbalance in the payments that merely benefit the top fat cats and big agribusiness at the expense of the majority of farmers, as can be seen by the continued rapid fall in farmer numbers across the EU. Its also increasingly being turned into a political slush fund by right wing governments under the current Polish Ag Commissioner who has been throwing vast amounts of CAP money at his parties politically connected industrial farming reps without any control or meaningful oversight by the current Commission

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129252#Comment_122129252

Food waste and obesity are far bigger issues these days in most countries, even in the likes of Mexico and India which has seen them recently look at how they fund farming. Any recent food price inflation is not down to less production, but the rising costs of transport, wages etc in the food transport and retail sector

https://indianexpress.com/article/health-wellness/obesity-lancet-study-india-cause-9188931/

https://www.eufic.org/en/food-safety/article/food-waste-in-europe-statistics-and-facts-about-the-problem

GrasstoMilk

what’s the best spray for docks ? Few paddocks here gone very bad

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130130#Comment_122130130

like the thing is as someone else said here it’s based on work people did 25 years ago. In a lot of situations fellas now just have the bare minimum number of cattle to make up the stocking rate to qualify for the free money. Some guys even keep donkeys instead of beef cattle. If the grants were gotten rid of it would free up land for more actual farming. Proper farming. Farming that has to be profitable. If anything food production would go up. Outside the EU there is nothing like the grants for farming within the EU and I don’t see china or America or any of them places with famines

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130387#Comment_122130387

Forefront or dockstar

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130520#Comment_122130520

Jay's I thought you sounded like a <modsnip> when you were complaining that you only got half a million for your kerry shares. Now I know that you're a real <modsnip> when you can't understand that it's the small payments like acres and sfp that is keeping rural Ireland open. Small family farms now depend on that 10 to 20000 in order to live.

Any mod can suspend me if they like, my predictive text won't let me call him what I really think of him. A 7*4 ft plot will be enough for us all in the end

Danzy

The idea of the pure free market is a nice fantasy for the young.

It's not applicable in the real world and it's not really seen in the real world either. It's like communism, a theoretical concept and only practiced in theory.

Reality is that little operators in America fucing around with 300 cows are going to the wall at a rapid pace and it would be worse here and the bigger lads are moving to corporate levels and they aren't talking rubbish about the free market, they are having the rules set to their need.

If you were to go to a full free market, there wouldn't be much left in most economies, especially the advanced modern ones. Maybe some hole like Mali might be different.

roosterman71

All industries get massive grants, rebates, etc. In a previous life I worked in Dell in Limerick who got huge IDA funding to extend carparking in Raheen. 18 months later the place was shut down. Regeneron came along and got huge grants to open up on the site. I was dealing in another place getting massive tax breaks for helping to fund students in college. Only stipulation was to guarantee employment which they did. Paid them peanuts and to date 11% of those hired stayed longer than 24 months.

In nearly all cases, grants/subsidies/etc see prices rise. But farmers get money and prices fall for them. What is the output price curve for primary producers vs every single other area of industry over the last 50 years?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130387#Comment_122130387

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130387#Comment_122130387

+1 on the forefront find it really good

Bazzer007

Thinking of running a Saler bull with the cows. Have two young pollies running with them but need a stronger bull. Do Saler x calves sell well? Or should I buy a more mature polly.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130520#Comment_122130520

China and the US are the most subsidised place's on the planet ffs 🙄