Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

blackdog1

So technically what the french are saying is if I fed the same amount of grass to my cows but increased my kgs fed to my cows so long as it is low protein ration and buffer fed my cows maize the whole year round my protein intake would drop, my milk yield would go up and my nitrogen excretion would drop?

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886237#Comment_117886237

I don’t know tbh, but it looks like we’re being penalized the more cows are grazed on grass. My reasoning of this is that there’s more N excreted whilst cows are on a grass based diet due to higher pr intakes?

So…if one was to feed a maize/whole crop/beet diet with a high pr balancer, you’d be entitled to a lower N penalty?

Someone on here will surely know?

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886237#Comment_117886237

Few fellas here in the nutrition game are saying similar and more ….we’re t consulted by Tegasc when compiling data for the proposed bands …

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886351#Comment_117886351

You’ll have to go indoor 24-7 and expand the maize acreage Mahoney!!

The main thing that they’ll have to do is make it a fair and accurate measurement for everyone.

Mooooo

Its all very loose. Not nitrates related but carbon footprint related, but if I fed more south american / French / wherever grain to cows here the foot print would go back to the country that produced the grain, lowering ours which🤷.

Mj, the bands are unlikely to change a whole pile, saw a figure where apparently only 11% of herds are over it, and cows in Europe have higher levels of N associated with higher yields so all that would happen would prob be a higher figure for anyone over 8 or 9k litre cows

Derogation and nitrates is about water quality, if we can improve on that the better chance we have. Most lads in my group don't go out early with fert until conditions are right, if they have a "drought" they don't spread and practice things correctly and its a teagasc facilitator in the group.

Remember the journal is a paper at the end of the day, plenty articles / headlines are hyped up be it teagasc advice or farmer anger and no better crowd than ourselves to lap it up.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886555#Comment_117886555

Your right re bands …highly unlikely to change ….there is a fear of there challenged a sr cap on a block of land could be bought in ….I still feel more input and consideration from others could of been taken into account when compiling the info that determined thd bands

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886555#Comment_117886555

Yea I hear you.

Ye are getting untold abuse from all directions, some of it warranted, some not. The way I see it climate/emissions are totally down to burning fossil fuels. Methane from cows didn’t cause it, but reducing methane is a quick fix, and it’s low hanging fruit, so there’s big pressure on…that’s fine, but pay me! Why would farmers accept responsibility for something they didn’t cause? Why make investments etc without just remuneration?

The N thing needs some positive news in the worst way. If only you could start turning things around re water quality, ye could then push back against the abuse. But each EPA report seems to be worse and worse. We here are about 20yrs ahead. Water quality is improving with over 20yrs and the public want animals to fertilize the land. They’re dead against artificial N but they also understand the need for animals. Thus there’s way less abuse directed towards farming. I even got a tidy sum for sequestering C!

Sadly there’s no appetite to drive change and clean up the waterways. If things could only turn positive for a couple of years, agriculture would be back in vogue and seen as part of the solution. But until then…?

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887994#Comment_117887994

Think things are changing, roadways are being changed to slop into fields, watercourses are being fenced and water troughs a distance from the watercourses.

We need to push out fertilliser use out to late February, as rainfall is just too high.

Slurry Storage should be measured on each farm and action taken if required.

Stocking rates on milking platforms should be looked at cos nutrients are then loaded onto homeblock in most cases I see

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887994#Comment_117887994

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886417#Comment_117886417

The french system suits organic fertilizer though Dawg. You bed your cows on straw so you have an abundance of dung. You also have cheap available land and vast tracts of tillage. Bale of straw here varies from €18 -35 a bale depending on the year. Biggest problem for me with water pollution is too much slurry and fertilizer going out in wet weather and bad conditions.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888274#Comment_117888274

Totally agree Kév.

It’s not rocket science. However the vast majority of dairy farmers wouldn’t agree, nor would Teagasc etc.

When I came here first farm walks were the complete opposite to the usual Teagasc bullsh1t…it’s all about regen ag, safeguarding the environment etc etc. With Teagasc it’s about stocking rates, early N and turnout etc etc. The difference is enormous.

The pic that I’m posting is about a local farm walk. Rough translation…’Cedric and Flavie farm with respect for the environment. Presentation of farming with soil and environment conservation…blah blah. Mob grazing will be discussed also

These farm walks are in every parish a few times per year. Quite a few non-farmers turn up also.

(Can you imagine the culture shock it was for me when I came here first!!)

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888518#Comment_117888518

First big mistake was to push for slurry. Every single country that goes down that route is inevitably in bother with pollution. I’ve been refused outright to build facilities for slurry because it’s too dangerous and volatile. When dairy became the white haired boy of farming it was at the expense of all other sectors especially tillage. Tillage is seen to be the enemy of dairy…they keep bidding on conacre etc etc. Big mistake. Dairy and tillage should have been encouraged to work together, but unfortunately they were seen as the enemy by Teagasc etc. Fym is fairly stable and easily stored. Another big plus for Fym is that it can’t be spread with umbilical system. The sooner that they legislate for the umbilical tractor be shod with rowcrop wheels the better!

Price of land has absolutely nothing to do with pollution. You’re not the first to mention it…it’s slurry and artificial N that pollutes not land price! Overstocked MP is a huge problem. Teagasc can do all the modeling they want, spout as much bullsh1t that they want, but saying that you can produce 16+tDM on the MP whilst stocked to the oxters is pure bull, and I suspect that everyone here knows that but are unwilling to admit it.

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889434#Comment_117889434

I agree with everything your saying especially the relationship between tillage and dairy men. My point on the land price was if I had cheap land to buy I'd probably grow my own tillage, crimp the wheat and bale my own straw....we used to do it before quotas went , I kinda know the numbers I want to milk and anything above that I'm not interested in at the moment anyway.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889434#Comment_117889434

The old stocking rate was 2.9 this years is 2.8, next year it’s 2.35 if your at the higher milk yield

we were never at 2.9, 2.7 this year but if new rules come in it’s 23 less cows for us

effectively it’s 61k less output at this years milk price, where will I gain that 61k? Certainly won’t get it from trying to save it on reduced inputs

we spread all our nutrients across the farm, but stocked high enough around the parlour

it’s only going to mean less money in my pocket as I’ll have to as you say fight off tillage farmers for conacre next year to keep my cow numbers who have had probably the best harvest in years

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889973#Comment_117889973

Did you ever try approaching the tillage men about sowing you maize/wholecrop wheat on a yearly agreement with slurry going into them, have 70 acres of a neighbour in this type of arrangement he's delighted as his p and k levels are getting built back up and I've a outlet for my slurry to utilise it, with the sfp going to slashed going forward you'd imagen you'd get takers

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889973#Comment_117889973

Agree with most of that but isn’t the tillage man entitled to his chunk of the cake as well ????….there’s a big bias to dairy here at expense of other enterprises ….round here the tillage msn is getting squeezed out by dairy farmers looking for map acres just so he can keep his head over water …dairy farmer just needs to take stock and ask when is enough enough ….with tillage land going to grass where will our straw come from ???…..I’ll be actively looking for a tillage farmer to take my slurry to grow me anything from maize to whole crop to beet …win win on both sides and neither of us driving rental prices thru roof ….Tegasc advisors etc will only say this complicates things for dairy farmer or system drift or some other drivel …..all eggs in one basket and no willingness to explore other avenues because they think it’s complicated 😴😴😴

ive seen one or two submissions from nutritionists etc on these organic n bands and n excretion of higher yielding cows recently …full of facts figures and backed by science …they weren’t even asked for there input by Tegasc

GrasstoMilk

We did straw for muck deal with local guy not so long ago, he wasn’t long about shafting me with less straw than we needed in 2018 after he got the slurry

biggest reason why we went cubicles here, fed up with lads **** us over

i don’t want to be relying on anyone to keep my business in order going forward after it

I can grow enough feed with what land we have and what stock we have I don’t need extra land but I’m going to need it due to the new rules

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890335#Comment_117890335

But u have the option of exporting slurry to do that ….contract in place like for contract rearing and should be no issue …options like this will have to be explored …..I’ve fairly fragmented land block and I’ve about as much chance of getting chance to rent few acres beside the parlour as I do on any other blocks ….and that slim to none …..more has to be done to get land to active progreso e farmers …entitlements and armchair farmers are nothing but a scourge in this country to those who actively want to farm

straight

Are any of ye going to the teagasc motivational event.

Timmaay

I can buy in all the contract grown maize I want here for 55e/ton, or grow it myself for under 40e/ton, including the land charge, and I get to decide what variety and cutting date, both of which are a huge huge advantage to me in terms of getting the best quality to value ratio.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890378#Comment_117890378

Another experience here of tillage in my area

we were actually set to be stocked at 2.5 /ha this year but a local guy went to the owner of a piece of ground we’ve had for the last 5 years since he gave up farming

he offered 100 more per acre, I refused to pay any more for than we were so your man got it

it’s one thing taking land that was in tillage that goes up in paper to rent or lease but actively going out to take land on someone that’s had it is just wrong

its all fair game now in my book,

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890597#Comment_117890597

Must be alot of tonnes in the acre so. Guy asked me 1500 euro per acre to grow it last year.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890516#Comment_117890516

Power washing sheds ….would of liked to go but standing in rain this stage of year listening to same stuff been rehashed not overly appealing

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890782#Comment_117890782

That in a nutshell is what’s wrong with farming here ….all trying to put do one another and get one over ….there’s lots of land in this country for every sector to thrive and work together with

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890865#Comment_117890865

There is but the bull mc cabes field is still very much alive and well

2 other guys went into a bidding war on a sizeable block not far away either

ended up at 450 ac acre for 5 years plus give entitlements back and it’s for spring malting barley

tillage man driving land price in my area

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890885#Comment_117890885

Their is more to that then meets the eye quick sums and them lads are losing 200 plus a acre for the privilege of playing with their toys on that ground , where's the money to fund their expensive hobby coming from

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890959#Comment_117890959

Most likely just two thick men who didn’t want the other to get one over ….common sense just threw out the window

Timmaay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890802#Comment_117890802

I'd set the whole farm to maize and contract grow it if I could get that per ac lol.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889973#Comment_117889973

You see problems, Jay sees solutions. It could be the best thing that could happen to you. Boss used always say that gold can be bought too dear.

For perspective…ongoing row between management here (wife!!), I want to sell every animal except bloodstock and put the combine through the maize. On paper it’s a no-brainer, but we would have to lay off two men and she’s not comfortable with that. A poster accused me of only being in dairy for the money. Why the fcuk would anyone be in dairy…?

That last 10% of yield/production is often not worth chasing.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891546#Comment_117891546

Bought Maize previously, you’re nearly guaranteed good feed but finding top notch silage much better and less complicated

if I wasn’t in dairying I’d need an awful lot more land to make the same living

ive no interest in paying big money for land but new nitrates rules are forcing me that way to keep the same number of cows

kevthegaff

This exporting slurry is another paper exercise for lads stocked to the hills with not enough storage. How many of them actually export it...

I know a tillage man renting land off lads putting it in grass and sub leasing to dairy farmers, making money doing nothin, fair play.

I've been outbid on 3 sections of land in the last 3 years by 3 beef farmers as I just dont see the return, yet every Tom dick and harry that comes into the yard says wer loaded.