Couple Ordered to Demolish House - any update?

feelings

So where is this at? Is the house gone? Or is it gone back to court?

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391139#Comment_121391139

https://archive.is/GL2KW#selection-3821.0-3829.77

Seems to be waiting on the High Court to come back with a decision. Open to correction though.

The Murrays are now awaiting a High Court judgment after they sought a temporary injunction on the back of the new evidence. They also applied for another retention permission in May, offering to reduce the size of the house by a third.

“We’ve offered to knock the garage, the car port and the part of the house where Chris’s mother had been living,” Ms Murray said.

However, just this week they received news the application had been rejected.

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392087#Comment_121392087

That last line..

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.............ha!

Vicxas

The fact they're using the housing crisis to try and save that monstrosity is laughable.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566313#Comment_121566313

And I fear they just might succeed with that argument- we’ve all seen pathetic excuses for lots of things in courts, both civil and criminal, get accepted by Judges.

Im against them retaining any part of the house - it was pure blaggardism on their part, if that’s such a word.

Let them eat cake now- if they can afford to build without permission they can afford to knock it and start the right way, just like everyone else has to do

Gusser09

Anything else on this case yet? I'd imagine nobody wants to proceed with enforcement at this stage but Meath CoCo can't be seen to back down.

It makes this case all the more laughable. https://selfbuild.ie/news/tipp-man-told-to-demolish-log-home-will-get-social-housing-supports/

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978320#Comment_121978320

"Meath CoCo can't be seen to back down"

I don't know about that. The number of people that actually have the cash and the neck to build a mansion, knowing the risks, must be tiny. I would imagine this case will just keep going to the back of the queue for the next few years, and then eventually dropped (with some kind of rule that says 20 years living there means they can stay). It's not fair, but I think they took a risk that seems to have paid off.

It's unlikely to happen again, nobody will get a mortgage to build whatever they want in a field, Council will be much more proactive in future (you would hope).

micar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978570#Comment_121978570

Is there a 20 year rule?

The Murrays need to be made an example of.

Meath CoCo need to make sure the house is demolished .

allowing legal wrangling to go on for so long can't be seen as a precedent to get away with building without planning considering they were refused a house half the size.

Anaki r2d2

I doubt it will ever be demolished. Surely it’s embarrassing for MCC? But at this stage I would think multiple staff turnovers, mean MCC would just like it all to go away.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981350#Comment_121981350

No there's no 20 year rule.

Unauthorized development proceedings are under way from a long time ago

Kaisr Sose

MCC have to follow the law, and in this case its clear the house was built on land that has a no build clause.

It should have been demolished ages ago and the saga that surrounds it's non-demolition is not a good precedent for land with similar restrictions on use.

It is bottom of the barrel stuff that the family are trying to use the housing crisis as a reason to stop demolition. This is just hypocritical. Part of the reason there is a housing crisis is down to the fact that people/developers cannot build anywhere they want. They must respect the planning process.

Spanish Eyes

Evict them, use whatever planning exemption is available (there are some I think for fast track house building, could be wrong), convert it into flats and give them to housing list applicants. CPO the site.

Win, win.

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981350#Comment_121981350

No rule, not what I meant per se, more that the council might just have to take this one on the chin. As for precedent, I believe the Murrays had a mortgage on the property, that wouldn't happen these days with new lending rules, and I doubt someone would put 400-500k fo their own cash on building a house that could be demolished quickly this time round. I would love it if they rolled in with bulldozers and flattended the whole thing, but c'mon, this is Ireland.

Anybody know where Pamela Flood is living these days?

Gusser09

I'd imagine building the house to this size without PP is the worst decision they have ever made. If it were a 180sqm bungalow they most likely have public support.

Must be some pressure they are under all the same.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981783#Comment_121981783

Mortgage requirements that require the property to have legal planning permission are not new. They've been around for decades. I'd be very surprised if they had gotten a mortgage for this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981602#Comment_121981602

Lose, lose for housing list applicants who find themselves living in the back of beyond with no access to transport, schools, shops, services. There's a reason why planning permission wasn't given at this location.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985505#Comment_121985505

I thought everyone had a car out in the sticks these days. If I was offered a nice apartment instead of a hotel room/overcrowded unsuitable current digs, what do you think I'd do?

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121985505#Comment_121985505

Read a comment somewhere from a guy that claimed to know a bit about their situation, said they got a mortgage to build by spoofing a bit on the application. Could have been spoofing himself of course.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987801#Comment_121987801

In my day, the bank would look for confirmation from the solicitor doing the conveyancing that planning was in order. Hard to spoof that.

AndrewJRenko

It's not just about 'having a car'. It's about condemning people to car-bound lifestyles while our planet is melting around us.

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987870#Comment_121987870

Yeah, the Murrays, notoriously law abiding.

sydthebeat

Electric cars are a thing aren't they?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978570#Comment_121978570

Why would you need to build a mansion? At least first off. Buy some rural land with no hope of getting planning, build a small house on it without permission or mortgage, be allowed to break the law, then sell it and use the proceeds to build a bigger house. Repeat ad infinitum. Profit.

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988680#Comment_121988680

The selling it part would be difficult. But agree with what you're saying, it absolutely shouldn't be allowed, and their house should be demolished. I just can't see it happening.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978320#Comment_121978320

I think you are missing the point. That guy lost a house that he can't live in and can't pass to his kids. Sure he might get social housing supports but not to the same level. That sort of penalty sends a strong message to not even attempt to go down this route.

The Murray's case sends out the message to have a go and even if you get caught you can tie up any demolition in the courts and get away with it. I'd say there are many more Murrays happening right now

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988383#Comment_121988383

It's nothing to do with how law abiding or otherwise they are. It's about having a solicitor who is prepared to lie to a bank about planning permission, knowing well that the bank will take them to the cleaners if an issue arises.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990018#Comment_121990018

I thought it was cash! a self build.

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987878#Comment_121987878

Do you know where Bohermeen is? It is a typical rural location like many many more in Ireland.

With a school, shops and very easy access to the M3. It's a fairly desirable location in Meath. Strong community clubs, athletics and cycling to name but a few. Local schools in Navan Kells and Athboy,all close by.

Many people desire to live there - you should visit Bohermeen and lecture the locals on their planet killing lifestyles. There is a community hall that you could lecture from. Right beside the athletics track

The house in question was built without planning it needs to go.

I don't recall reading that planning was denied for the eco reasons you quote. There are many other single build houses in that area. Those house holders choose to follow the regulations.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987878#Comment_121987878

The world is not melting and you have no clue about the commuting patterns of rural dwellers but that won't stop you preaching to us about what you observed from the saddle of your cargo bike.

monseiur

In the rather unlikely event that Meath Co. Co. ends up demolishing the house will they be obliged to provide alternative housing for the Murray's ? On what grounds was planning refused on same site for a smaller dwelling ?

Planning generally in this country is one big mess and needs a root & branch overhaul. There are no hard & fast rules - different planners even in one County Council have different criteria / standards and seem to make rules up as they go along hence the reason so many get overturned on appeal to An Bord Pleanala

I am not privy to the details of the circumstances of the Murrays but assuming they had housing need, had their own site and were financially in position to build their own home (as per their original planning application which was refused) On what grounds were their application refused. Did Meath Co. Co. offer them an alternative site or indeed house instead ?

I have a funny feeling that they were so pis$ed off with the planning office (like thousands genuine applicants through out the country are) that they decided to build anyhow and if they were to be eventually hanged for the deed it would be for a decent mansion and not a bog standard bungalow or whatever 😉

Anaki r2d2

"On what grounds were their application refused. Did Meath Co. Co. offer them an alternative site or indeed house instead ?"

I doubt anyone except the owners and MCC know why planning was refused on the smaller house.

Why would MCC offer them a site or a house? That makes little sense to me.