Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Interested Observer

Milena009 wrote: »

Hi guys,

Quick question about fees outside of the deposit.

I know that properties (new builds) have booking deposit which is refundable when HTB kick in for developer.

What fees / percentages of them are a given?

Like solicitor / stamp duty etc?


Asking on example of 320k property in Kildare.

Thank you

Stamp duty is 1% of the purchase price. A solicitor I'd budget maybe 1.5-2.5k for.

CorkRed93

TheSheriff wrote: »

Commercial property will indeed suffer most I feel.

KennisWhale wrote: »

commercial property looks goosed, particularly bricks and mortar retail.

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

PropQueries

CorkRed93 wrote: »

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

That's a good question. Years ago the site/property owners could just sit on them for years in the belief (justified in many cases), that there would always be some level of demand for their sites/properties from retail, office or hotel use etc.

Internet shopping, WFH etc. has turned that future potential use on its head. If they can't develop them, who will buy them and for what use?

Maybe someone can clarify how long before they are required to wait before they must write down the values on their books? I'm assuming extending and pretending won't wash with many investors going forward.

Timing belt

CorkRed93 wrote: »

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

They will probably lie idle or they will tweet permissions to let Restraunt or bars take over but that will mean they are idle with covid. Office space could be converted to flats

Timing belt

PropQueries wrote: »

That's a good question. Years ago the site/property owners could just sit on them for years in the belief (justified in many cases), that there would always be some level of demand for their sites/properties from retail, office or hotel use etc.

Internet shopping, WFH etc. has turned that future potential use on its head. If they can't develop them, who will buy them and for what use?

Maybe someone can clarify how long before they are required to wait before they must write down the values on their books? I'm assuming extending and pretending won't wash with many investors going forward.

All these properties are owned by funds who will need to book an impairment charge for the leases.

virginmediapls

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

The new Somerton house in Adamstown are going on sale Friday. The 3 beds start at 365k. I got a shock!

The Newpark ones started at 315k

Jaysus christ don't come to Adamstown. I live here and it's going to the dogs i mo thuairim fein.

Edit: You'd want to be cracked to even consider €365k here as well !!

wassie

PropQueries wrote: »

100% agree. Nothing really done since independence. However, I did read an interesting analysis last year about how the cost of building a new estate in e.g. Kildare, Meath or Wicklow is actually more expensive than building a new estate in Co. Dublin when the cost of upgrading the roads, rail networks, water treatment plants etc. to cater for the new households are added into the equation.

Not surprising as once upon a time all of the necessary infrastructure for land development was supplied by the state or local authority. However the system has slowly migrated to a user pays system with cost shifting onto the end user. Hence this will cost more in less established areas. I would state this is a broad generalisation however and there will always be local circumstances in play.

mcsean2163

virginmediapls wrote: »

Jaysus christ don't come to Adamstown. I live here and it's going to the dogs i mo thuairim fein.

Edit: You'd want to be cracked to even consider €365k here as well !!

Maybe they're set at that price for the state to purchase?

Seems a lot...

sandy2020

fliball123 wrote: »

Where in Meath is it?

Drogheda

cnocbui

Dutch home prices jumped in the third quarter as a shortage of properties enabled the market to shrug off an economic contraction.

The median-weighted transaction price climbed 11.6% on an annual basis to 354,000 euros ($416,000), realtors association NVM reported on Thursday. In Amsterdam, the country’s biggest city, there was an 8% increase.

“Consumers hardly have anything to choose from any more,” NVM Chairman Onno Hoes said in a statement. “The housing market really needs more supply to keep housing affordable for a large number of people.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-15/dutch-home-prices-jump-as-the-market-overcomes-economic-weakness?srnd=premium-europe

Reminds me of another country, the name of which escapes me; give me a minute, it's sure to come to me...

Dwarf.Shortage

I'm actually heartened for the first time in a long time that steps in the right direction are afoot. If the increased funding to build social housing removes or even materially reduces the extent of the government out bidding people trying to purchase private housing things should improve a bit supply wise.

It's not a panacea and I don't think there is one, but it will help.

KennisWhale

CorkRed93 wrote: »

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

Amazon will set up customer care hubs or Starbucks will take them over.

/ half-joking.

TheSheriff

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I'm actually heartened for the first time in a long time that steps in the right direction are afoot. If the increased funding to build social housing removes or even materially reduces the extent of the government out bidding people trying to purchase private housing things should improve a bit supply wise.

It's not a panacea and I don't think there is one, but it will help.

Your optimism is admirable. We'll likely not know for years.

merikahan

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

The new Somerton house in Adamstown are going on sale Friday. The 3 beds start at 365k. I got a shock!

The Newpark ones started at 315k

The bay view in Baldoyle is starting from 410K with 425K for 112 sqm 3 bed house.

100 years from now, we’ll called as a generation which couldn’t afford a house.

PropQueries

The Government plans to fund remote hubs in rural towns and villages over the next two years as part of the development of a State strategy on remote working.

Leo Varadkar has "warned that we have to look at the risks to the country as well of people who currently live in Ireland perhaps remote working from the Canaries, or Ibiza or Poland or India. That’s a real risk to us in terms of losing jobs."

Link to article in Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/remote-working-hubs-to-be-funded-by-government-as-part-of-state-strategy-1.4382006

brisan

donnaille wrote: »

Yes, that's my understanding too.

Changed it to monthly reports in May of this year


https://www.daft.ie/report

brisan

combat14 wrote: »

house prices are almost back to crazy celtic tiger boom levels (only 18% off) and rents here are now insane..

FF/FG will have to tackle this issue at some stage or the country faces a potential youth brain drain post covid 19 or else a massive renewed vote for SF next time out

That is my take on the matter

cnocbui

merikahan wrote: »

The bay view in Baldoyle is starting from 410K with 425K for 112 sqm 3 bed house.

100 years from now, we’ll called as a generation which couldn’t afford a house.

A 3 bedroom of that size in San Franciso would cost you 2-3 times that. Same for many other cities around the world.

cubatahavana

cnocbui wrote: »

A 3 bedroom of that size in San Franciso would cost you 2-3 times that. Same for many other cities around the world.

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

brisan

Duke of Url wrote: »

I have bought a house in a new estate this year and at least 90% are privately owned.

Well then the Developer paid a fee to the Government to enable this to happen
Although I thought this practice was banned and the developer had to hand over 20% of the estate to the council
I am however open to correction on that

brisan

fliball123 wrote: »

So just out of curiosity I know we have had our differences but what would you do to solve it? NOt attacking you now or anything!

My idea would be to visit the magical money tree that FFG said did not exist when SF said it did
Lo and behold during the pandemic FFG found the tree
Borrow 5 billion
Build 25,000 3 bed 3 bath 99sq mt houses on state owned land at 200,000 each
Sell 20,000 at 250,000 each for 5 billion and keep 5000 for social housing
Rinse and repeat for a few years
Let the private developers build the dearer houses and scrap the HTB scheme altogether
If you sell one of the state built houses within 10 years you pay penal taxes on the profits on a gradually decreasing scale starting at year 5
Only owner occupiers allowed to buy

brisan

schmittel wrote: »

There is a huge range of measures which would make up quite a long post but in a nutshell it would involve 180 degree turn in change of focus and strategy to reallocate housing budgets and resources.

The short version:

Scrap all Help to Buy/Shared Equity etc etc measures designed to make housing more affordable to private buyers. Reallocate these funds to HAP/Social Housing budgets. Set a more modest limit on HAP rates than current market rates.

Scrap all rent controls. Let private landlords charge what they think the market will bear. Scrap all long term leases for social housing with landlords, offer them tax incentives to offer longer leases in private rental market. Generally improve tax risk/reward for landlords.

Although no rent controls keep designated RPZs as a marker of where problems are greatest.

Hammer any Airbnbs hard in current RPZs to get them either on market for sale or market for rent. Enforce it properly in the future.

Introduce vacant property register in RPZs. (Give the job to the CSO, not Fingal CC!)

Reduce CGT on sale of long term vacant property if sold within next 6 months.

Introduce some sort of planning permission type system for vacant property in RPZs - i.e no tax if you wish to keep a property vacant but you need to have a good reason. Enforce it properly. Monitor it. If a property is listed as a rental, check it regularly.

Increase CAT allowances within a near term timescale specifically for pensioners downsizing properties in RPZs.

Introduced government backed bridging loans for downsizers.

Do a deal with banks/vulture funds whereby the government pledges a change in policy and to promote change in public opinion on arrears - i.e if you are not paying your mortgage we will repossess you.

In exchange banks/vulture funds hand over the loan books of those who are genuinely the poorest in need of most help, and every property that is suitable for social housing.

So basically if Vultures Inc have an unemployed family of four living in a modest house, or modest buy to let, it becomes the governments problem.

And if they have a celebrity chef and model living in a 1m house in Clontarf they have the green light to fast track the repo and get it on the market.

Clear all this overhang and then scrap CB lending limits. Allow banks to lend as much as they wish based on their risk analysis of individual borrower BUT with non recourse loans and fast tracked repos after 6 months.

I could go on and on and on but you get the idea, basically the opposite of everything we are doing now!

And this government have the perfect excuse with which to protect themselves from some of the negative fall out from the above - they can blame covid impact on the economy.

No one could have a problem with that

cnocbui

cubatahavana wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

Yeah, one is in a nations capital city and the other isn't.

brisan

cubatahavana wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

Probably the truest post in the entire thread ,especially considering saying That Bayview is in Baldoyle is a stretch

Bubbaclaus

cubatahavana wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

Absolutely.

There is a massive homeless problem in San Fran. The real kind of homeless too.

brisan

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Absolutely.

There is a massive homeless problem in San Fran. The real kind of homeless too.

You think San Fran is bad ,check out san Diego
Local councils used to give their local homeless a free train ticket to San Diego to get them out of town
Best climate in the states ,rarely goes below zero degrees and very little rainfall
Although you do have June Gloom

Smouse156

cubatahavana wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

Come on?? Baldoyle has WAY more going on than SAN FRAN

cnocbui

cubatahavana wrote: »

Bit unfair to compare baldoyle to San Fran

Ok, how about Hilversum, Holland - https://www.funda.nl/en/koop/hilversum/huis-41048972-eikbosserweg-83/

A 97 sqm postage stamp for €485,000

And that Baldoyle house price wouldn't even get you the land to build a house on in much of Sydney.

merikahan

cnocbui wrote: »

A 3 bedroom of that size in San Franciso would cost you 2-3 times that. Same for many other cities around the world.

having lived & worked in SFO for sometime , this is hilarious post.. In SFO, they also pay 4-5 times of Dublin wages for IT workers.

cnocbui

merikahan wrote: »

having lived & worked in SFO for sometime , this is hilarious post.. In SFO, they also pay 4-5 times of Dublin wages for IT workers.

Next you will be telling me Sydney has 4 times as much sunshine as Dublin, so of course...