Twitter removing "master", "slave", and "blacklist" to be more inclusi

ronivek

2u2me wrote: »

Can't say I've ever come across anyone, no. Have you? Could you post something up where someone is offended on their own behalf and not that of others? Remember that it's from mere words alone and not the context in which they are used.

Well the most relevant is the Twitter engineer who kicked it all off. But since you’ve already decided he’s lying I imagine you’ll make the same claim irrespective of whoever or whatever I post.

https://twitter.com/negroprogrammer/status/1278728953667022848?s=20

2u2me

ronivek wrote: »

But since you’ve already decided he’s lying

ronivek wrote: »

So you're saying nobody on the planet has ever or would ever be offended by 'mere words alone'?

Enough with the Cathy Newman references. It's so tiresome. If you listened carefully what I'm saying is all there. If you are still confused you can ask me without throwing an argument in my mouth.

4068ac1elhodqr

oyvey wrote: »

...yet.

Exactly, just to see how bizzare things have now become, take a look at the (unfunny) far-left comedian (Oliver) mocking Trump's predictions, back in 2017

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/john-oliver-mocked-trump-in-2017-for-predicting-removal-of-washington-jefferson-statues

“I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You really have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”
— President Trump, in 2017

And what do we have today.....?

ronivek

2u2me wrote: »

I'd say the only image invoked in his mind was one of public relations. He realized the potential to virtue-signal and began broadcasting.

2u2me wrote: »

Enough with the Cathy Newman references. It's so tiresome. If you listened carefully what I'm saying is all there. If you are still confused you can ask me without throwing an argument in my mouth.

Throwing an argument in your mouth? You implied he was lying earlier today; or are you now saying you believe he was offended?

2u2me

ronivek wrote: »

Throwing an argument in your mouth? You implied he was lying earlier today; or are you now saying you believe he was offended?

He said it made him 'angry'. I'd like to see what other words make that guy angry.

hetuzozaho

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Then it feels like attention-seeking because why would anyone need to know the jargon of the job other than those working in the field?

As an engineer I follow engineering twitter accounts. Good to know what's going on. This is quite common discussion around many projects at the moment. Some pull requests with the changes being denied and some not.

hetuzozaho

joseywhales wrote: »

So, it depends. When I review I take the stance of trying to be totally objective and logical. I am not going to allow even the perception of personal bias or feelings dictate how I review code.

You're a better man than me Jim annoys me and I'm going to town on this code review haha

hetuzozaho

RedXIV wrote: »

Imagine this goes a step further and some of these words become offensive:

public/private
int/char
def
class
package
bash/bat
bool

you'll have people trying to rewrite languages that have been around since the advent of computing. and it's theoretically do-able, but the effort is staggering and ultimately, if a few hearing impaired people are unhappy with "def" being in a codebase, are you going to migrate your entire codebase off python? Maybe if PETA get involved

Sounds like a fun project!

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Twitter engineers replacing racially loaded tech terms like 'master,' 'slave'

No.. Not from their site's content or tweets.. From its codebase.

Since when does a programming language need to be more inclusive? Last year apparently. Some worthless cúnt who works there took issue with it and decided to save the world from racism and slavery.

But more importantly, how on Earth are "master" or "slave" racially loaded terms when there are more slaves now than ever before, and they're not all black, and the majority of slaves are owned by people of their own race? Why is America trying to force this idea on us that only black people have ever been slaves and only white people have ever been slave owners?
...

What a fooking numpty.

Will he now lead a charge for email domains not to be blacklisted because of spam?
What about hard disks and master and slave?

Should I open up one of my old machines, take out the slave disk and apologise to it for any offense caused. :rolleyes:

The world, or more specifically the western world, is going full on retard.
Too many fooking numpties whims are being accommodated too readily.
And it starts off small, but before you know it some group or other are agitating for ever more restrictive measures, lest of course someone gets offended.

And the liberals will claim anyone that objects to this shytology is being triggered or some such shyte.

No it is fooking cop on that we are on a slippery slope to thought control.

hetuzozaho

jmayo wrote: »

What a fooking numpty.

Will he now lead a charge for email domains not to be blacklisted because of spam?
What about hard disks and master and slave?

No change to functionality planned so your email inbox will be safe from spam!

I'd whip out that Hard disk though, solid state is the job!

jmayo

Juts looked up that are*holes twitter and this is the shyte they are pushing.
And as far as I know the gobshyte is only 3/4 months in his first real job.
What a fooking gift to the engineering world.
Then again he is not real engineer, he works as coder.

2u2me

jmayo wrote: »

Juts looked up that are*holes twitter and this is the shyte they are pushing.

I wonder why he wants to remove 'sanity check' :pac:

Pythagorean

Went to a garage for a brake overhaul. The mechanic said the master cylinder was leaking, and the slave cylinder was needing replacement. So of course i went on social media straight away with a video of what he had said, poor chap was sacked immediately.
(Apocryphal story, but in todays world, maybe not too far fetched}

Tell me how

Pythagorean wrote: »

Went to a garage for a brake overhaul. The mechanic said the master cylinder was leaking, and the slave cylinder was needing replacement. So of course i went on social media straight away with a video of what he had said, poor chap was sacked immediately.
(Apocryphal story, but in todays world, maybe not too far fetched}

I'm guessing you are a Caucasian person who went to an Irish garage and dealt with another Caucasian person in the above interaction? Sounds pretty standard, and no specific reason to think about changing things.

Buy, say you were an African american who went to a garage in the southern US states region and was told the same as you by a Caucasian mechanic, but the terminology was repeated over and over and you felt they were getting a kick out of saying it. Or, even if this didn't happen, but you are the great grandchild of a person who was held as a slave and whose brother was beaten to death by their owner. Do you think they wouldn't feel uneasy about the use of the terms in this context?

And I know you might say that that probably doesn't happen that much or if it does, the modern day person should understand nothing is being said with the intention of hurting them, but, how do you know that? We are seeing that a large proportion of citizens in the US collectively feel that they are viewed as of lesser standing than others in their communities, what advantage does it serve to try to argue for holding on to terms to make them feel this way?

oyvey

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm guessing you are a Caucasian person who went to an Irish garage and dealt with another Caucasian person in the above interaction? Sounds pretty standard, and no specific reason to think about changing things.

Buy, say you were an African american who went to a garage in the southern US states region and was told the same as you by a Caucasian mechanic, but the terminology was repeated over and over and you felt they were getting a kick out of saying it. Or, even if this didn't happen, but you are the great grandchild of a person who was held as a slave and whose brother was beaten to death by their owner. Do you think they wouldn't feel uneasy about the use of the terms in this context?

And I know you might say that that probably doesn't happen that much or if it does, the modern day person should understand nothing is being said with the intention of hurting them, but, how do you know that? We are seeing that a large proportion of citizens in the US collectively feel that they are viewed as of lesser standing than others in their communities, what advantage does it serve to try to argue for holding on to terms to make them feel this way?

Slavery was abolished in 1865 in the USA wasn’t it? How could an African American be a grandchild of a former slave now?

Tell me how

oyvey wrote: »

Slavery was abolished in 1865 in the USA wasn’t it? How could an African American be a grandchild of a former slave now?

Matilda McCrear travelled to the US on a slave ship as a 2 year in 1860. Her granddaughter is still alive.
That aside, what I said was 'great grandchild'.

Not withstanding the above, do you feel only people who are recent descendants can feel aggrieved at what their ancestors suffered?

Cordell

They should leave the past in the past and they should go on with their lives, and stop being offended or aggrieved when there is absolutely no need to.

Tell me how

Cordell wrote: »

They should leave the past in the past and they should go on with their lives, and stop being offended or aggrieved when there is absolutely no need to.

Again, they feel that they are being treated unfairly right now in 2020 and in a way which is reminiscent of how their ancestors were treated.

In 500 years, the whole period from 1865 to 2065 or whenever will be summarized in to a few concise sentences, but we are living in a period of transition still. This whole conversation is part of it.

When does the past become the past?

joseywhales

hetuzozaho wrote: »

You're a better man than me Jim annoys me and I'm going to town on this code review haha

At the end of the day you are somewhat responsible for Jim's output too. The satisfaction of showing Jim might wear off when you find that now you have to do your and Jim's work going forward. And you will never move on because your bandwidth is consumed with the same work you have been doing for a decade. Best to be super nice to Jim, even if he is a moron.

Cordell

Tell me how wrote: »

Again, they feel that they are being treated unfairly right now in 2020 and in a way which is reminiscent of how their ancestors were treated.

That's their problem, these terms are completely unrelated to them and their ancestors.

Tell me how wrote: »

When does the past become the past?

When it's not applicable anymore. There are no former slaves and slave owners in the US today, no one to punish for it and no one to receive any sort of reparations for it.
Racism is still an issue, racism is a problem to be solved now, not slavery. Also, poverty, discrimination, sexism, and none of these problems will get fixed by renaming engineering terms.

RedXIV

oh I got a good one! anyone else heard the term "chaos monkey" , part of Netflix's simian army?

Well as a product of evolutionary struggle where we were all parts of the primate family, I also feel aggrieved. Please recompense me by re-naming the tool or giving me free Netflix

oyvey

Tell me how wrote: »

Matilda McCrear travelled to the US on a slave ship as a 2 year in 1860. Her granddaughter is still alive.
That aside, what I said was 'great grandchild'.

Not withstanding the above, do you feel only people who are recent descendants can feel aggrieved at what their ancestors suffered?

I can’t tell them not be aggrieved. But I would think someone should have the objectivity to realise that the situation above is not about them or slavery. I just think it’s a slippery slope. Anyone could be offended by anything. The term “miscarriage of justice” could be offensive to women who had miscarriages for example.

hetuzozaho

Cordell wrote: »

They should leave the past in the past and they should go on with their lives, and stop being offended or aggrieved when there is absolutely no need to.

This! People getting offended over what twitter are doing must have little to be doing!

Cordell

I'm just baffled, and a bit concerned about how fast this kind of superficiality creeps deeper and deeper, but not in any way offended.

But also I would love to see this being thrown at any project maintained by Linus

Overheal

Cordell wrote: »

They should leave the past in the past and they should go on with their lives, and stop being offended or aggrieved when there is absolutely no need to.

How do you reckon?

You know your Irish. They don’t know if they’re Zimbabwean or Somali or Swahili. Their ancestors didn’t know. The damage is irreparable.

Tell me how

Cordell wrote: »

That's their problem, these terms are completely unrelated to them and their ancestors.


When it's not applicable anymore. There are no former slaves and slave owners in the US today, no one to punish for it and no one to receive any sort of reparations for it.
Racism is still an issue, racism is a problem to be solved now, not slavery. Also, poverty, discrimination, sexism, and none of these problems will get fixed by renaming engineering terms.

How can you say that these terms are completely unrelated to the descendants of slavery?

And, on the renaming of engineering terms, you are right, that in itself will not change core problems, but it might help demonstrate a broader acceptance of what other cultures have suffered. To fight to retain the usage of the words could be construed as a dismissal of that.

Also, what problem will it create by using different phrases?

Cordell

Overheal wrote: »

How do you reckon?

You know your Irish. They don’t know if they’re Zimbabwean or Somali or Swahili. Their ancestors didn’t know. The damage is irreparable.

I'm not Irish and your assumption that I am deeply offends me
They are all Americans, aren't they? And a white american may not know if their ancestors came from England or Germany, but for them there is no damage, right?

Cordell

Tell me how wrote: »

How can you say that these terms are completely unrelated to the descendants of slavery?

Because they aren't, when they were introduced no one was thinking about social implications, they did it so as to accurately describe what is going on.

Tell me how wrote: »

And, on the renaming of engineering terms, you are right, that in itself will not change core problems, but it might help demonstrate a broader acceptance of what other cultures have suffered. To fight to retain the usage of the words could be construed as a dismissal of that.

That is virtue signaling to be concise - the art of pretending to do something about some social issue while actually doing nothing at all.
There are real things to be done here to improve inclusiveness, and I'm not talking about diversity quotas, but actually helping underprivileged communities to have more success into STEM fields.

Tell me how wrote: »

Also, what problem will it create by using different phrases?

Wasted time and effort and potential technical issues when renaming stuff - this was discussed earlier in the thread.

jmayo

Overheal wrote: »

How do you reckon?

You know your Irish. They don’t know if they’re Zimbabwean or Somali or Swahili. Their ancestors didn’t know. The damage is irreparable.

Are you for real or has modding the conspiracy theories forum finally melted your brain.

The Portuguese, British, French, Spanish, Americans weren't in the habit of collecting slaves from Zimbabwe or Somalia to send to the new world.
First off it would not make any economic sense.
Secondly by the time places like modern Zimbabwe were explored and opened up to Europeans US slavery had ended.
So had British slavery, but not British colonisation (just in case your frazzelled brain can't distinguish those things either).
And Swahili is a language of the Great Lakes region meaning Central and Eastern Africa, not West Africa where most of the New World slaves originated.

Most of the New Worlds slaves would have originated around what is today Senegal, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau and Mali; and west-central Africa, including what is now Angola and Congo.
Thank the likes of the Portuguese for some of that.

And if you want to talk about Somalians maybe you should look at the history of slavery in the Islamic world and not to Europeans.
But of course one can't dare talk about that.
Only Europeans were slavers. :rolleyes:

4068ac1elhodqr

Surely subtle-slavery is now a modern (non-white) concern, perhaps more than the past, from a total numbers point of view.

You only have to look at at the uk's covid crisis to highlight this:

Leicester city had something like double the cases compared to anywhere else.
The main factor in this is sweatshop factories (Asian owned e.g. BooHoo's textiles suppliers)
that flout working conditions, and often even pay way less that minimum wages, and operated at 100% capacity.

Suppliment his with reports of 20 or so of these workers often occupying small 3bed houses (the only way to get by, on slave wages).

Coronavirus: Leicester sweatshops face criminal inquiry on ‘slaves’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boohoo-leicester-factories-modern-slavery-boohoo-leicester-factories-modern-slavery-investigation-a9602086.html

Boohoo ‘facing modern slavery investigation’ after report finds Leicester workers paid as little as £3.50 an hour
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/03/leicester-coronavirus-lockdown-is-no-surprise-to-its-garment-factory-workers

Coronavirus: Leicester sweatshops face criminal inquiry on ‘slaves’
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leicester-sweatshops-face-criminal-inquiry-on-slaves-ltmncts9z

Why are the far-left not calling out this.
There is now a record level of 10,000 modern day slaves in the uk (mostly non-white 'masters').

Another area is the Mid-East & China (non-white areas).
Both enjoy slave workers whenever possible.