The National Party

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183473#Comment_121183473

The "lack of choice" though also tends to be indicative of a lack of popularity. So the lack of a mainstream "conservative" party is probably more indicative of a lack of an opportunity for the far right than the existence of an opportunity. Indeed, FF have probably suffered from coming across less proactive about social progress than SF and FG — while Aontu have not made any serious dent in terms of stealing away conservative leaning people from the main parties.

Sometimes the choices (if by choices we mean parties with the capability to make a meaningful impact) available in a democracy are simply reflective of a lack of popularity. The other problem is that the right seems to perpetually plagued by rifts caused by one person failing the conservative purity test of another person.

Quin_Dub

The Electoral problem that parties like the National party face is their complete and utter inability to attract a 2nd preference vote from anyone , meaning that they are completely unelectable in Ireland.

Either you support them or you don't and frankly not many do - Their 1st preference vote share is no existent.

No-one giving a 1st preference vote to any of the mainstream parties would dream of giving the National party a 2nd preference vote.

FF/FG/SF/Lab/Greens will account for probably 80%+ of 1st preference votes across the country in any election and parties like the National party aren't getting anything from any of those voters.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183473#Comment_121183473

That would be illogical.

If people voted right of centre, they would be much more inclined to give to give their vote to centrist parties then they would to some far right fringe.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183473#Comment_121183473

What "Far Left" parties attract any sort of support in this country?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186053#Comment_121186053

Take from the General Election results from 2020;

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187636#Comment_121187636

I have a feeling the poster i responded to was referring to has a different interpretation of what constitutes "far left". The parties you highlighted are a tiny minority. still manage to get more votes that right wing parties mind.

Peregrinus

I presume the inclusion of the Social Democrats here is just an artefact of the screen capture. Nobody would class them as "far left".

PBP/Solidarity are further to the left but, between them, they only got 2.6% of the vote, as the screencap shows. The notion that there are "hundreds of thousands" of votes for " any party that is brave enough to push back" against them is not very plausible, since in fact the mainstream parties do push back against them; PBP/Solidarity have negligible achievements precisely because they are on the political margins.

Jackiebt's post only make sense in the context of their stated belief that "there is no conservative party any more here, the are no right of centre parties". Not only are there such parties in Ireland; they are, and always have been, the dominant parties.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187667#Comment_121187667

A tiny minority who are sitting TD's will tens of thousands of votes, the figures are there in the attached image they're not struggling for support.

The Far right parties are miles behind them in every conceivable way.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188268#Comment_121188268

I'm not disagreeing with you, i think. Left wing parties have always had minority support with a couple of TDs. Right wing parties have never had any kind of support and long may that continue. Being blasé about the possible threat they face is not the way to go though.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187671#Comment_121187671

I think 2.6% fpv is slightly underselling SPBP (although technically it is a correct figure). But firstly it hides that they didn't stand a candidate in many constituencies, and they have condensed support of 11->14% in many urban constituencies where they do stand enabling them to be competitive for lower seats especially as they are reasonably transfer friendly.

Condensed support is key (as we see in say GB elections over the years where 15% got UKIP no seats but 5% got the SNP 50 seats).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188386#Comment_121188386

If the threat was credible and had consistent, upward trending growing support, then you'd be right.

But there is no evidence that such a trend exists. And as long as that evidence doesn't exist, we can be comfortably blasé about it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188666#Comment_121188666

your attitude towards them is entirely down to you. i'm not trying to convince you otherwise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188690#Comment_121188690

Do you accept there is not widespread, growing, upward trending support for the National Party?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188723#Comment_121188723

certainly a lot more support than there was 5 years ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188742#Comment_121188742

So you agree with my contention then, that there isn't widespread, upward trending support for the NP.

But on what you did say, which wasn't what I asked, do you have any evidence to even back up that claim?

ancapailldorcha

I don't think the argument that we should ignore the far right and the National Party simply because they're not going to be highly represented in the Dáil is a good one. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and we should be constructively criticizing them and holding them to account as much as possible.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188742#Comment_121188742

What are you basing this on? I'm not aware of any indication of this from opinion polls (although I'm open to correction on this) and I don't know what o0ther 'hard' evidence there would be of a rise in support for a political party.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188797#Comment_121188797

I don't think anyone would even attempt to make that argument.

We need to be able to observe these cvnts and keep apprised of their actions.

Sadly we already have the other band of loonies in the Dail. My argument would be that any and all political extremists should be kept as far away from the Dail as possible.

A world, or in this case a country free of political extremism should be something everyone can agree on.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188868#Comment_121188868

They certainly seem to be a lot more publicly active.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188797#Comment_121188797

Nobody has suggested they should be totally ignored.

But their support should not be exaggerated, either.

It's possible to do both at the same time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188952#Comment_121188952

I'm going to take it from this response that you are not arguing in good faith; that your exaggerated claims about the National Party are as fictitious as I and others have pointed out, that you have no evidence to sustain your claims, and that - more than anything else - it seems that the NP are being elevated as a threat as a means simply to have a phantom bogeyman threat to attack.

It's a very good thing that this threat doesn't exist. The title of this thread is so far from the truth, only supporters of the NP would agree with it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188975#Comment_121188975

I haven't made any exaggerated claims. It isn't like I am comparing a premiership footballer to Jimmy Savile.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188386#Comment_121188386

It's my belief that no political extremists belong anywhere near the Dail.

I have serious problems with the mainstream political parties in this country like everyone else, but the solutions offered by the extremists already in the Dail are bananas and a reminder that these people are of no value to anyone but themselves.

The Far right aren't within an assess roar of the Dail, which is fantastic but at the same time far left nutters are already not only in there but quite comfortable thank you very much.

Let's get rid of these clowns and stop flirting with the type of nonsensical, made for opposition policies of Sinn Fein and try and improve our political system instead of running it into the ground out of protest.

pagan22

im considering a vote for them,

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188989#Comment_121188989

the only people who can get rid of these "clowns", as you call them, are the electorate. thankfully the "clowns" rarely have the power to actually do anything.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188947#Comment_121188947

Obviously they're trying to capitalise on the current hue and cry about immigration but trying doesn't automatically translate into succeeding. Even if most of the people involved in anti-refugee marches and other forms of 'direct action' went out and voted for the NP at the next GE, and that's a massive assumption, I don't think that would necessarily constitute a major increase in their vote, certainly by itself nowhere near enough to get anybody elected to the Dail.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189001#Comment_121189001

If we had a protest vote that resulted in gains for Sinn Fein at the next election the clowns could potentially be in coalition and hold some actual portfolios.

Paul Murphy, Minister for enterprise, trade and employment, should send a shiver down anyone's spine.

pixelburp

Are the National Party statistically relevant? No, not at the moment. But unless their credentials, beliefs and fascism is lampshaded at all opportunity we might accidentally allow their brand of hate to quietly "enter the mainstream". Not saying Boards is a kingmaker, but it's good to highlight just what cretinous Nazis they are, lest people get any ideas.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189116#Comment_121189116

Plus, if anyone has read their history, they'll know just how dangerous it is to either A. dismiss far right entities on a whim or B. believe that they can be controlled by more moderate factions.

Cancers always start off small.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189087#Comment_121189087

If you want to discuss the left wing loonies then by all means start a thread about them. This thread is about the National party.