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#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Gonna have to update the thread title. Matt Riddle accused...

    https://twitter.com/CandyCartwright/status/1273896403941691392


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,534 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Gonna have to update the thread title. Matt Riddle accused...

    https://twitter.com/CandyCartwright/status/1273896403941691392

    floodgates could open now


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    floodgates could open now

    They aren't open, they've been blown completely off their hinges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,975 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    How often have WWE guys been accused before with nothing coming of it?
    Riddle is due on this week's Smackdown, isn't he?
    For Devlin, luckily for them they crowned a new champion.

    I'd say there are so many incidents that people are too scared to come forward about as they would likely just be referred to as "ring rats" and dismissed. This is why the more voices speaking up will get heard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Hard to be surprised when Teddy Hart still got booked


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,152 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Enzo was sacked stage at the allegation stage so I can't see it being any different for Riddle and Devlin.

    Although Enzo was ultimately proven innocent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭johnnyryan89


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Enzo was sacked stage at the allegation stage so I can't see it being any different for Riddle and Devlin.

    Although Enzo was ultimately proven innocent.

    Wasn't he more sacked for hiding the allegations and investigation from WWE before it became public knowledge.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Wasn't he more sacked for hiding the allegations and investigation from WWE before it became public knowledge.

    Strikes me that Enzo was a case of multiple issues, rather than one specific one. Reports were he was not particularly liked backstage, so when he hid the allegation from WWE, it was a "final straw" situation and they offloaded him.

    Compare it to Dream, who was accused and they stuck by him, to the point of him still being in the main event scene for NXT.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Amy Allonsy has posted a recap of her experiences with Scotty Davis. They're only 20 and 19 years old respectively. Kids, like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,761 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Hard to be surprised when Teddy Hart still got booked

    What have I missed about teddy hart outside of him being weird ?

    I wonder what entertainment industry is next ? I can see music being next.


    And just to be clear about my last post it's that there is so much info posted on twitter within the last 12-24 hours that I've learnt more from here and other websites as to who has been accused because it's standing out amongst the general noise of twitter and other places. That was my point in general and my fault is at times I don't word things in a way that is clear.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    What have I missed about teddy hart outside of him being weird ?

    I wonder what entertainment industry is next ? I can see music being next.


    And just to be clear about my last post it's that there is so much info posted on twitter within the last 12-24 hours that I've learnt more from here and other websites as to who has been accused because it's standing out amongst the general noise of twitter and other places. That was my point in general and my fault is at times I don't word things in a way that is clear.

    Accused of sexual assault, rape, domestic abuse and his ex vanished in suspicious circumstances


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Cornette fumbling already though. Says the fact the profile picture is his wife’s current one proves the pictures were photoshopped...which isn’t true at all if the person making the allegations still has the messages and took said screenshots recently.

    I do get the instinct to fight allegations but Starr has already shown that can make things significantly worse. If allegations are false (and, being cynical, if true as well), your best bet is probably to ignore the court of public opinion and lawyer up ASAP. Wading into a twitter spat is dangerous, innocent or not,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Cornette fumbling already though. Says the fact the profile picture is his wife’s current one proves the pictures were photoshopped...which isn’t true at all if the person making the allegations still has the messages and took said screenshots recently.

    I do get the instinct to fight allegations but Starr has already shown that can make things significantly worse. If allegations are false (and, being cynical, if true as well), your best bet is probably to ignore the court of public opinion and lawyer up ASAP. Wading into a twitter spat is dangerous, innocent or not,

    In fairness though, there is zero in the screenshots that implicates Jim. All it shows is that his wife is trying to cheat on him (it doesn't even imply Jim knows about it)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Jack Gallagher now being accused of getting a girl drunk and trying to assault her and of raping someone else

    Is Vince Russo booking 2020?

    Seriously though this is horrific stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    See here’s the thing: you’ve nothing to defend if you’ve done nothing to be ashamed of. So you can learn a lot about people by how they defend themselves, Starr being a MASSIVE example of that.

    I’ve thought before about, as I’m sure many of us have, what would happen if we randomly saw our name pop up with some mad, untrue allegations. And with me, because I know I’m safe from that happening because there’s nothing I’m looking to hide, I’d be like: who is this person and have I even met them? Do I remember specifics if I have or can I jog my memory somehow? The important bit: is there something that I’m forgetting that could’ve been misconstrued as something else? If it was a miscommunication, I’d be confident I could clear that up relatively quickly because I tend to have good habits anyway so the scope for what could be miscommunicated to begin with is pretty tiny. And if it was entirely false, then I’d be confident I could prove that and certain that they couldn’t prove the accusation were true (because it wouldn’t be). So while it’d be jarring to see, I’d file it under ‘a mad thing happened today’ and say I’d be able to move on confident that things will sort themselves out. If it was in court, I’d know I’d be fine because there’s nothing to prove. If it was on Twitter, I could prob use my phone to track exactly what I was doing that day and be like “uh that didn’t happen sorry, I’ll happily go along with a full investigation to prove as much if needed”. Story over.

    Also I don’t think there’s this slew of insane women out there looking to make false accusations against men, particularly people like me who aren’t rich or famous or have anything of value to offer, so it’s not something worth fearing in your day to day life if you’ve a bit of cop on.

    Going on the assault against an accuser, being overly-desperate to clear your name, over-explaining or trying to twist/control the narrative like Starr, blanket denial...all of these are weird ways to act if you put yourself in people’s shoes and assume their version of events that it’s not true. So yeah, you can tell a lot by how someone responds, and also how they respond to the stories to begin with: Progress’ ‘The Darkest Timeline’ statement they put out being one such alarm bell there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Alex Shane!! What the actual **** allegedly got 15yo drunk and raped her and took pictures for a "wall of shame" and did the same to other girls too. This particular girl in question later committed suicide

    https://twitter.com/SarahCoomber2/status/1273868418182270976?s=20


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭showpony1


    What is the irish scenes thoughts of Scott Davies and Jordan Devlin?
    From what i see the OTT hardcore haven't been as quick to condemn those lads on twitter as they were David Starr yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭SketchyPrince


    showpony1 wrote: »
    What is the irish scenes thoughts of Scott Davies and Jordan Devlin?
    From what i see the OTT hardcore haven't been as quick to condemn those lads on twitter as they were David Starr yesterday.
    They're set to release a statement retracting anytime they slapped the mat for them. A huge move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭showpony1


    They're set to release a statement retracting anytime they slapped the mat for them. A huge move.


    simpler times when the twitter controversy was lads having meltdowns over being called "mat slappers".


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Jack Gallagher now being accused of getting a girl drunk and trying to assault her and of raping someone else

    Is Vince Russo booking 2020?

    Seriously though this is horrific stuff

    https://twitter.com/jaynebkyboo/status/1273894427975716865?s=21

    https://twitter.com/slaymysterio/status/1273901470044303361?s=20


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    leggo wrote: »
    I’ve thought before about, as I’m sure many of us have, what would happen if we randomly saw our name pop up with some mad, untrue allegations. And with me, because I know I’m safe from that happening because there’s nothing I’m looking to hide, I’d be like: who is this person and have I even met them? Do I remember specifics if I have or can I jog my memory somehow? The important bit: is there something that I’m forgetting that could’ve been misconstrued as something else? If it was a miscommunication, I’d be confident I could clear that up relatively quickly because I tend to have good habits anyway so the scope for what could be miscommunicated to begin with is pretty tiny. And if it was entirely false, then I’d be confident I could prove that and certain that they couldn’t prove the accusation were true (because it wouldn’t be). So while it’d be jarring to see, I’d file it under ‘a mad thing happened today’ and say I’d be able to move on confident that things will sort themselves out. If it was in court, I’d know I’d be fine because there’s nothing to prove. If it was on Twitter, I could prob use my phone to track exactly what I was doing that day and be like “uh that didn’t happen sorry, I’ll happily go along with a full investigation to prove as much if needed”. Story over.

    That all sounds wonderfully simple in theory, but based on what I've seen on Twitter over the last 24 hours I'd suggest you are underestimating just how dangerous it could be.

    There are genuine wrestling fans sharing lists of names, despite not knowing why some of those people are on the lists in the first place. There are wrestlers and fans accused of many different crimes all thrown in together, from rape and statutory rape and grooming to dick-pics, physical bullying in gyms, or just plain old being bad boyfriends.

    There are disillusioned "stans" (who display worrying/problematic/obsessive behaviour at the best of times) leaving brutal abuse under Tweets, Instagram posts, YouTube videos. They're contacting other companies and businesses and imploring them to fire and blacklist anyone who's been accused.

    There are brand new accounts sharing libelous anecdotes about performers, and these are being re-Tweeted by other sock-puppet accounts to get them into the "Top" tab in the Trending section.

    You might well be able to clear things up and prove your innocence if it ever came to a Garda interview, but in the eyes of the Internet "there's no smoke without fire" and you'd have that cloud over you for a long, long time to come.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,975 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    And proving where you were at a certain point wouldn't be much help if your accuser was someone who was all over you on a night out then you turned down or even someone you spent the night with consensually only for her to turn against you, maybe after you not calling her.

    And how often do we see news making headlines and then they're proven false only for a small buried quarter column in the paper apologising for the false news? Take the recent rugby players case. It made the news daily, constantly in the cycle, then when they were found not guilty, it might have lasted 1 news cycle and that was it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,558 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Nah, not having the Jim Cornette stuff. Doesn't add up. Cornette has made dozens of enemies over the years to where it would certainly have emerged by now. The person alleging it said it was, quote: "EXTREMELY common knowledge among OVW alumni". Okay, then why didn't it emerge before now? I'm to believe no one said anything to Cornette's many enemies outside of OVW?

    Santino, for example, was willing to try and fight him in a public place, but wouldn't it have been easier to just reveal this info? Am I supposed to believe a chap that was responsible for making the phone call that helped bring Cornette's tenure at OVW to an end, and later tried to start a physical altercation years afterwards, didn't learn of this "EXTREMELY common knowledge" in all the years subsequently? Besides, anyone that listens to Cornette knows he has huge respect for his OVW partner Danny Davis, and it's inconceivable to me that he would abuse his position like was claimed for what that fallout would mean to Davis, or is well respected Danny Davis in on the scandal too?

    Just hope the chap has a good lawyer. "Call...Stephen...P....New,...if you need to sue..."


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    showpony1 wrote: »
    What is the irish scenes thoughts of Scott Davies and Jordan Devlin?.

    It must be mental for Session Moth today. It always seemed from Instagram that Devlin and Jimmy Havoc were two of her favourite people in the world, and I think she was in Japan with Scotty Davis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    That all sounds wonderfully simple in theory, but based on what I've seen on Twitter over the last 24 hours I'd suggest you are underestimating just how dangerous it could be.

    There are genuine wrestling fans sharing lists of names, despite not knowing why some of those people are on the lists in the first place. There are wrestlers and fans accused of many different crimes all thrown in together, from rape and statutory rape and grooming to dick-pics, physical bullying in gyms, or just plain old being bad boyfriends.

    There are disillusioned "stans" (who display worrying/problematic/obsessive behaviour at the best of times) leaving brutal abuse under Tweets, Instagram posts, YouTube videos. They're contacting other companies and businesses and imploring them to fire and blacklist anyone who's been accused.

    There are brand new accounts sharing libelous anecdotes about performers, and these are being re-Tweeted by other sock-puppet accounts to get them into the "Top" tab in the Trending section.

    You might well be able to clear things up and prove your innocence if it ever came to a Garda interview, but in the eyes of the Internet "there's no smoke without fire" and you'd have that cloud over you for a long, long time to come.

    Okay so let's take that at face value: can you prove that this is a thing that actually happens to a harmful degree and that it has a detrimental effect on people's careers?

    You may decide to point to Enzo, which from my memory is the only account that's proven false (an easy thing to do in false cases because the law both here and elsewhere is setup to protect innocence, therefore the accuser must prove the accusation rather than the accused prove their innocence). Well in that case:

    a) That actually proves my point that it is possible to prove false allegations as such and,
    b) It was harmful to his career because he chose not to disclose an ongoing police investigation to his employer as agreed he would in his contract. That's what he did wrong. If he'd have followed the process, WWE would have been powerless to release him because they can't weigh in on these things until there's a legal ruling either way. He didn't, and that fact also made him look guilty, which made his release a no-brainer. The fact that he did that AND was innocent just shows spectacular levels of poor judgement from Enzo.

    Again, the paranoia people feel towards this is understandable since it IS theoretically possible that this could happen. But the negating factors in the situation also make it extremely unlikely to the point that you'd need to actually prove it's a thing that does happen rather than a thing that can happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Re Session Moth, slut shaming is a world apart from all this other stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    And proving where you were at a certain point wouldn't be much help if your accuser was someone who was all over you on a night out then you turned down or even someone you spent the night with consensually only for her to turn against you, maybe after you not calling her.

    And how often do we see news making headlines and then they're proven false only for a small buried quarter column in the paper apologising for the false news? Take the recent rugby players case. It made the news daily, constantly in the cycle, then when they were found not guilty, it might have lasted 1 news cycle and that was it.

    We must be reading different newspapers. That case was one of the biggest news stories of the year, it only blew up for me AFTER the ruling, and their 'innocence' is still something that can be contested because even what they admit to and the way they carried on around it is shady as ****.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,188 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Alex Shane has accordingly been added to the list.


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