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#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭showpony1


    They where trainees etc doing a job, not fair of you to say anything about them

    I am always fair.
    it was the crowd holding him up in stadium - it's printed on a T-shirt.
    Probably a lot of backtracking now from people saying they never liked him all along.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    Nonsense, I certainly will be the first to admit that the character and the entire angle between him, Walter, and Devlin was something I thought was fantastic - completely bought in to it throughout. But I'm not going to feel like I somehow am tainted by this, that me or anyone else should have known.

    It's a bit weird how much people are reveling in this, best case scenario this guys career is down the drain and he spent a lot of time being an horrendous partner, worst case scenario this guy has assaulted women and done serious damage to peoples lives. Both option are dreadful.

    So, I can only say that I think someone having a go at past fans who were fans of the character, angle, and/or even the person who he seemed to be is beyond petty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭showpony1


    mayordenis wrote: »
    Nonsense, I certainly will be the first to admit that the character and the entire angle between him, Walter, and Devlin was something I thought was fantastic - completely bought in to it throughout. But I'm not going to feel like I somehow am tainted by this, that me or anyone else should have known.


    that's a perfectly fine stance to take - what's interesting is certain media now putting on their twitter they knew something was up with Starr before this broke, but i heard nothing but praise for him & his OTT run previously.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭showpony1


    It is a pity for over the top rope wrestling as well as they've now lost that big match in Starr vs Moxley.
    They obviously can't do Devlin vs Moxley - so it'll be interesting to see which direction they go.

    First time in a while they are potentially short of star power at main event level? (i.e. a match that would generate interest from US journalists).
    If they could get Osprey in to go for the title at a stadium show that would be great.

    May be looking at all irish shows for a while though so could be Devlin(?), LJ Clearly, B Cool, Scott Davies, Martina (?) going for title.

    Would have been nice to see how David's run was intended to end also.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    showpony1 wrote: »
    that's a perfectly fine stance to take - what's interesting is certain media now putting on their twitter they knew something was up with Starr before this broke, but i heard nothing but praise for him & his OTT run previously.

    Let's think outside the wrestling box for a few moments. This is just the latest in a long line of situations involving the awful (and often criminal) behaviour of public figures. Sometimes great artists do questionable or awful things, or are awful people in their personal lives, Kevin Spacey, Michael Jackson, Roman Polanski, Chris Benoit, et cetera. Nobody knows where to draw the line between enjoying their art and admonishing the brutal things they've done. This is especially true when we're only used to seeing the good things they've produced, and not what they're like off-camera.


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    showpony1 wrote: »
    May be looking at all irish shows for a while though so could be Devlin(?), LJ Clearly, B Cool, Scott Davies, Martina (?) going for title.

    Wonder if anyone would notice if I Tweeted that I was coming for the title. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭showpony1


    Let's think outside the wrestling box for a few moments. This is just the latest in a long line of situations involving the awful (and often criminal) behaviour of public figures. Sometimes great artists do questionable or awful things, or are awful people in their personal lives, Kevin Spacey, Michael Jackson, Roman Polanski, Chris Benoit, et cetera. Nobody knows where to draw the line between enjoying their art and admonishing the brutal things they've done. This is especially true when we're only used to seeing the good things they've produced, and not what they're like off-camera.


    My post does not say that - I am agreeing that most were not aware of any of David's personal life. What i am mentioning is the twitter posters, who most will be familiar with here, retrospectively saying they always knew something was up with Starr after the fact, yet i saw no mention of that during his OTT run, praising him.

    I do appreciate that you referred to our business as "art" though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭showpony1


    Wonder if anyone would notice if I Tweeted that I was coming for the title. :pac:


    Are you a worker Insect?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    What do people want people to say though? I’ve been vocal about feeling uncomfortable about David Starr like there was a massive bang of hypocrisy off him pretty much since he started the ‘We The Independent’ stuff. My show was one of the only ones that covered the Seb accusations and Starr’s weirdly suspicious response. What more could I do? Seb put up about him DMing a Progress trainee, what more could he do there? Are people not more culpable if they saw/heard all of that and said nothing, if we’re going to randomly assign additional ‘blame’ for crimes that none of us are guilty of? How guilty are the people that attacked anyone who said anything not overwhelmingly positive about Starr (of which there were many)?

    But all of that is a witch hunt for the sake of a witch hunt. The only person who’s actually done wrong here is Starr. The rest of us are just human processing the news in different, but equally valid, human ways.

    Here’s what’s at play in the real world beyond random online narratives:

    - It’s possible to get bad vibes off people without knowing anything, but reckless to state they’re anything but that without evidence. I can only speak for myself but I feel uncomfortable and compelled to speak up if someone I get bad vibes off starts to get this overwhelming support like Starr does, like if I don’t say anything I’m just part of the mob if it turns out my suspicions were correct. I don’t expect to change others’ opinions but I can sleep better at night knowing I said something.

    - If people did hear stories, they may have heard them 2nd or 3rd hand and don’t have nearly enough info to make them public without risking getting it very wrong and damaging an innocent person’s reputation or facing a lawsuit even if they got it right because they can’t prove what they said.

    - Even if you hear stories directly from victims and have irrefutable proof, it’s not your story to tell! It’s not your decision to make their sex lives and history of abuse public!

    - Lastly, it IS valid to feel happy that a bad person got caught. Do you feel positive when you see the likes of Harvey Weinstein or bad politicians get their comeuppance? That’s literally one of the most natural feelings in the world. The entire premise of the thing we’re all here discussing is based on people wanting to see good guys get the better of bad guys!


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    showpony1 wrote: »
    Are you a worker Insect?

    Not yet. I'm hoping to start training soon. Still, I was only half joking about Tweeting my intentions. :D

    That said, it'd probably be a lot safer to stay off Twitter altogether. It's mad seeing all the mistakes that people have been making on it, not least the guy who's "really good at Twitter"...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,188 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Not yet. I'm hoping to start training soon ...

    Sadly I fear you may be waiting a long time. Doesn't look like any of the schools are opening up soon.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Sadly I fear you may be waiting a long time. Doesn't look like any of the schools are opening up soon.

    I wonder if my brother still wants to practice sidewalk slams and Sharpshooters like we did in the 1990s. :pac:

    Sticking with more serious stuff, it looks like the David Starr revelations have opened the floodgates. A lot of allegations are starting to come out about a lot of people in British pro-wrestling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭brianblaze


    Debbie Keitel just posted somethin about another Irish wrestler on her Twitter. Fair play to her for being brave about it, sucks that another wrestler I like on the Irish scene turns out to be a complete bo***x. You can have a look for yourselves to see who it is, explains a lot.

    Man, wrestling is weird.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭undertaker fan 88


    Joe Coffey also being accused and a promotor in the uk. Also david Starr twitter is gone


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,084 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Just read a few stories about Marty Scurll. If there's any truth to them he's in deep sh1t.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    brianblaze wrote: »
    Debbie Keitel just posted somethin about another Irish wrestler on her Twitter. Fair play to her for being brave about it, sucks that another wrestler I like on the Irish scene turns out to be a complete bo***x. You can have a look for yourselves to see who it is, explains a lot.

    She says it's Alexander Dean.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Branching this off into its own thread, cause it feels as if this whole thing is developing rapidly now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭bot43


    So the accusation, effectively, is that he was an absolute prick to her? Am I reading it wrong or is there more too it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    The sheer amount of stories coming out is so shocking


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    bot43 wrote: »
    So the accusation, effectively, is that he was an absolute prick to her? Am I reading it wrong or is there more too it?

    Who, Starr?

    Starr has basically straight up admitted to raping her....

    Devlin getting accused now too.

    https://twitter.com/textbookglovers/status/1273731764222033924?s=21


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  • Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭bot43


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Who, Starr?

    No. Debbie > Alexander


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,768 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Jordan devlin ? I'll admit I don't follow the Irish and uk wrestling as closely as others do here, but honestly what the **** was going on in it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I don't know if this is unpopular or not but I don't feel very comfortable with people just being able to name people online like this? Once your name is out like that you're fighting an uphill battle trying to get the genie back into the bottle (if you're innocent, I mean!). It doesn't sit all that well with me, I dunno.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Stuff about Scrull and underage texting..

    Devlin doesn’t seem clean in all this either

    This is going to get much worse before it gets better


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭undertaker fan 88


    So many people being named now....this is turning my stomach if true


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I don't know if this is unpopular or not but I don't feel very comfortable with people just being able to name people online like this? Once your name is out like that you're fighting an uphill battle trying to get the genie back into the bottle (if you're innocent, I mean!). It doesn't sit all that well with me, I dunno.

    There aren’t many people who would want this attention on them if it wasn’t true(tthe accuser I mean)

    And the vast vast majority have some form of proof


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I don't know if this is unpopular or not but I don't feel very comfortable with people just being able to name people online like this? Once your name is out like that you're fighting an uphill battle trying to get the genie back into the bottle (if you're innocent, I mean!). It doesn't sit all that well with me, I dunno.

    I’d be a believer that accusations need to be heard, but not blindly believed.

    But a lot of these coming out are kind of backed up by a lot of people going “yeaaaah, that was an open secret”. Starr admitting to his accusations, all the **** with Osprey, Schurl, Ryan, etc.

    Generally when you see floodgates open against a person or a group, it’s because it’s exposing the culture in the scene.

    Don’t believe everything, but also don’t dismiss everything either. Don’t 100% declare someone guilty, but also accept that in these sorts of situations, it’s apoften near impossible to actually prove stuff without coming out with your story and seeing if there’s other victims willing to back your story up with ones of their own .


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    There aren’t many people who would want this attention on them if it wasn’t true

    You're correct there. And the ones speaking out do seem to have verifiable stories. I'd just be worried that someone with a grudge against a wrestler, real or imagined, could slap something up and people would call for their head. I've seen some of the toxic stuff online and the obsessive nature of some fans. Genuinely scary.

    Anybody who has abused anyone needs to be dealt with severely though. There's enough sh*t going on in the world without this apparent vile carry on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭undertaker fan 88


    Going insane wwe having emergency meeting


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,768 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Omackeral wrote: »
    You're correct there. And the ones speaking out do seem to have verifiable stories. I'd just be worried that someone with a grudge against a wrestler, real or imagined, could slap something up and people would call for their head. I've seen some of the toxic stuff online and the obsessive nature of some fans. Genuinely scary.

    Anybody who has abused anyone needs to be dealt with severely though. There's enough sh*t going on in the world without this apparent vile carry on.

    I'd be of a similiar opinion to yourself omackeral in that in an effort to rightly expose this vile **** and for people doing it to get called on it, that someone who is innocent will be named wrongly and that stain will stick.

    You're right about the fan stuff. There are some very weird and disturbing stuff happening including Alexa bliss and Sasha banks husband where one fan is convinced that her husband robbed her from this fan. The earth really has shifted off it's axis in 2020.


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