What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

onlinenerd

Deleted User wrote: »

Well... you're mixing migrants up here by your own phrasing. If they've come through boats, then they're most likely illegal, or under an Asylum process claim. So, comparing them to Irish people who have gone elsewhere under legal migrants as skilled labor doesn't really work. (yeah.. try going to the M.East illegally as a white person.. it won't work out well for you)

Secondly, you introduced the tanned skin comment, which, in itself is quite racist, and ignorant of the situation. A large percentage of migrants who come to Ireland come from countries with various degrees of White skin. So....

Lastly, where is your evidence that the vast majority are hard working? Go on.. would love to see it.


Actually, most economic migrants come from much poorer nations, with substandard education, and are often lacking in English language ability. Their contributions are usually on the bottom end of the workplaces... and that's if they are working. Many are on welfare, or are still within the asylum process receiving aid from the Irish State, so any such claims of contributions are suspect.

Once again, you seem to be unsure of the origins of these migrants in Ireland. You call them economic migrants, but that's an extremely vague term.

Seem like the migrants you see and I see are totally different, I see hardworking nurses and IT professionals filling in a gap that exist in the Irish market. If these countries have sub standard education and training, why do we even hire them? Yes maybe they lack English because they speak a different language but most of these jobs have enough English that is comprehendable.

Asylum seekers and lowly paid Eastern European workers is probably what you are referring to but I have seen some true hardworkers amongst the Eastern Europeans here even at their "menial" jobs.

Yurt2

onlinenerd wrote: »

I don't see why people are so afraid of change.Cultures evolve and change over the years and so there's no point crying over the fact that my child is going to live in a different society than I did.

Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits o the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.

I think the fundamental difference here is that the rights of movement are reciprocal between member states. I have the same right to access the labour market and to settle in Rome or Turin as an Italian does in Cork or Galway. We also pool sovereignty, share a supranational poltical system in the EU and are part of a transfer union. This is not true of non-EEA countries.

I can't just roll-up in Tokyo or Cape-Town and access the labour market and the fruits of that society, and I won't be granted privileges to so unless it suits the host country. And that's probably how it should be.

onlinenerd

Yurt! wrote: »

I think the fundamental difference here is that the rights of movement are reciprocal between member states. I have the same right to access the labour market and to settle in Rome or Turin as an Italian does in Cork or Galway. We also pool sovereignty, share a supranational poltical system in the EU and are part of a transfer union. This is not true of non-EEA countries.

I can't just roll-up in Tokyo or Cape-Town and access the labour market and the fruits of that society, and I won't be granted privileges to so unless it suits the host country. And that's probably how it should be.

You are indeed free to access the labour market in Middle east or India or Thailand provided you're the suitable candidate but I don't think a lot of Irish would be up for it.

Sand

onlinenerd wrote: »

I don't see why people are so afraid of change.

People aren't afraid of change. They're afraid of negative outcomes for their children, wider family and people. Anyone looking at whats happening in western Europe and is beginning to emerge in Ireland ought to be worried.

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

I don't see why people are so afraid of change.Cultures evolve and change over the years and so there's no point crying over the fact that my child is going to live in a different society than I did.

Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits of the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.

Cultures evolve and change organically over time. There is nothing organic about the mass inward migration Ireland has experienced since the late 1990s. Can you not comprehend that a country transitioning from ~2% migrant background to >17% of the population within two decades, is almost unprecedented?

Our nearest neighbor took almost 50 years to ‘achieve’ this state. The UK is not a society we should be seeking to emulate. Knife crime is out of control in London, accompanied by rampant white flight, with ~750,000 white Britons departing the capital throughout the last 15 years. I make no apology for not wishing that scenario upon my children. Perhaps when you have a family of your own, you’ll start to develop some understanding of the significance of social cohesion.

There was nothing hypocritical about my decision to work in Germany. I was headhunted for role in the tech industry by my employer. Any German is equally free to move to Ireland under the reciprocal rights of movement. Surely you’ve heard of this rudimentary concept? Are you capable of distinguishing between high-skilled intra-EU migration and the waves of low skilled asylum seekers and language students who have washed up on our shores, who incidentally are not beneficiaries of the free movement of labor?

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

You are indeed free to access the labour market in Middle east or India or Thailand provided you're the suitable candidate but I don't think a lot of Irish would be up for it.

Your lack of knowledge is astounding. The only way you or any other foreign national will be permitted access to the labor markets of the UAE, India, or Thailand is if you have a critical skill they are unable to source domestically. They treat inward migration as something that should be of benefit to the host society i.e. precisely the same logic Ireland should be implementing.

You know nothing about what other Irish people are ‘up for’. Given the almost universally high level of education here, Irish people are amongst those most capable of fulfilling this criteria. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority opt to stay right here in Ireland, becoming stakeholders in their own society. The point that you, willfully continue to miss, is that they should only be joined here by high-skilled migrants who have legitimate skills to offer this country and do not become a financial burden on this state. Can you comprehend any of this?

Yellow_Fern

onlinenerd wrote: »

Seem like the migrants you see and I see are totally different, I see hardworking nurses and IT professionals filling in a gap that exist in the Irish market. If these countries have sub standard education and training, why do we even hire them? Yes maybe they lack English because they speak a different language but most of these jobs have enough English that is comprehendable.

Asylum seekers and lowly paid Eastern European workers is probably what you are referring to but I have seen some true hardworkers amongst the Eastern Europeans here even at their "menial" jobs.

No one is saying that migrants are lazy. Being hardworking or lazy isnt the issue.

onlinenerd wrote: »

Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits of the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.

How many times does it have to be said that no one is arguing to ban all migration. Migration from different sources is treated differently. For example we have a open border with the North. We have another tier for the rest of Europe and we have other tiers for non European countries.

jmreire

onlinenerd wrote: »

You are indeed free to access the labour market in Middle east or India or Thailand provided you're the suitable candidate but I don't think a lot of Irish would be up for it.

And the same applies here,,if you fit the bill for what's needed, and can support yourself, Welcome. But try turning up in the Middle East, India or Thailand ( as quite a lot are doing here) without qualifications and uninvited, and see what will happen to you...you think that you will be welcomed with open arms and have access to their social welfare system ( if indeed they have a social welfare system as we would know it ) ???? I don't think so......
BTW, I worked in the Middle East for a nr of years, but never saw a welfare system as we have here,,,and furthermore, they keep a very close eye on foreigners, unlike here.

onlinenerd

Hamachi wrote: »

Cultures evolve and change organically over time. There is nothing organic about the mass inward migration Ireland has experienced since the late 1990s. Can you not comprehend that a country transitioning from ~2% migrant background to >17% of the population within two decades, is almost unprecedented?

Our nearest neighbor took almost 50 years to ‘achieve’ this state. The UK is not a society we should be seeking to emulate. Knife crime is out of control in London, accompanied by rampant white flight, with ~750,000 white Britons departing the capital throughout the last 15 years. I make no apology for not wishing that scenario upon my children. Perhaps when you have a family of your own, you’ll start to develop some understanding of the significance of social cohesion.

There was nothing hypocritical about my decision to work in Germany. I was headhunted for role in the tech industry by my employer. Any German is equally free to move to Ireland under the reciprocal rights of movement. Surely you’ve heard of this rudimentary concept? Are you capable of distinguishing between high-skilled intra-EU migration and the waves of low skilled asylum seekers and language students who have washed up on our shores, who incidentally are not beneficiaries of the free movement of labor?

I agree London and Sweden is not an ideal representation of migration and neither do I question your decision to work in Germany but have you ever thought that another German might have thought he deserved that job over you

onlinenerd

jmreire wrote: »

And the same applies here,,if you fit the bill for what's needed, and can support yourself, Welcome. But try turning up in the Middle East, India or Thailand ( as quite a lot are doing here) without qualifications and uninvited, and see what will happen to you...you think that you will be welcomed with open arms and have access to their social welfare system ( if indeed they have a social welfare system as we would know it ) ???? I don't think so......
BTW, I worked in the Middle East for a nr of years, but never saw a welfare system as we have here,,,and furthermore, they keep a very close eye on foreigners, unlike here.

A middle east person can turn up here but will he be able to practise his religion or culture here without the natives frowning upon him? I know I was in the Middle East for a while myself:D

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

I agree London and Sweden is not an ideal representation of migration and neither do I question your decision to work in Germany but have you ever thought that another German might have thought he deserved that job over you

Do you know what headhunted means? I was approached by a German employer for the role because I have a niche tech skill set. They had already exhausted recruitment options domestically. So no, I’ve never questioned if a German felt embittered, because they had first dibs on the role, as is the natural order.

To reiterate again, I paid 50% of my salary in taxes, never claimed welfare, and learned the language to near native level. You still haven’t answered my question. Are you capable of distinguishing between high skilled migration of this nature and the substantial influx of dubious asylum seekers and language students to Ireland? If you are able to make this differentiation, what kind of future migration should Ireland prioritize?

onlinenerd

Hamachi wrote: »

Your lack of knowledge is astounding. The only way you or any other foreign national will be permitted access to the labor markets of the UAE, India, or Thailand is if you have a critical skill they are unable to source domestically. They treat inward migration as something that should be of benefit to the host society i.e. precisely the same logic Ireland should be implementing.

You know nothing about what other Irish people are ‘up for’. Given the almost universally high level of education here, Irish people are amongst those most capable of fulfilling this criteria. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority opt to stay right here in Ireland, becoming stakeholders in their own society. The point that you, willfully continue to miss, is that they should only be joined here by high-skilled migrants who have legitimate skills to offer this country and do not become a financial burden on this state. Can you comprehend any of this?

I am not questioning what the Irish or up or not up for but since Ireland provides benefits and perks here that cannot be obtained there, most chose to work here and I would say anyday Irish beat any of the candidates at the job in Asia but most wouldnt take it uo due to the cultural differences, low wages etc.
I know if I was jobless and had an option to work in Asia for lower wages I would claim the dole instead.

onlinenerd

Hamachi wrote: »

Do you know what headhunted means? I was approached by a German employer for the role because I have a niche tech skill set. They had already exhausted recruitment options domestically. So no, I’ve never questioned if a German felt embittered, because they had first dibs on the role, as is the natural order.

To reiterate again, I paid 50% of my salary in taxes, never claimed welfare, and learned the language to near native level. You still haven’t answered my question. Are you capable of distinguishing between high skilled migration of this nature and the substantial influx of dubious asylum seekers and language students to Ireland? If you are able to make this differentiation, what kind of future migration should Ireland prioritize?

Thankfully I can differentiate between the two and while I agree we cant stop language students from coming here to learn English we could tighten up a bit on the asylum claims but then again I am not in these people shoes claiming asylum and fleeing from wars so I probably would understand and relate less to their life experiences.

onlinenerd

Hamachi wrote: »

Cultures evolve and change organically over time. There is nothing organic about the mass inward migration Ireland has experienced since the late 1990s. Can you not comprehend that a country transitioning from ~2% migrant background to >17% of the population within two decades, is almost unprecedented?

Our nearest neighbor took almost 50 years to ‘achieve’ this state. The UK is not a society we should be seeking to emulate. Knife crime is out of control in London, accompanied by rampant white flight, with ~750,000 white Britons departing the capital throughout the last 15 years. I make no apology for not wishing that scenario upon my children. Perhaps when you have a family of your own, you’ll start to develop some understanding of the significance of social cohesion.

There was nothing hypocritical about my decision to work in Germany. I was headhunted for role in the tech industry by my employer. Any German is equally free to move to Ireland under the reciprocal rights of movement. Surely you’ve heard of this rudimentary concept? Are you capable of distinguishing between high-skilled intra-EU migration and the waves of low skilled asylum seekers and language students who have washed up on our shores, who incidentally are not beneficiaries of the free movement of labor?

What is this social cohesion you rave about? Would you be afraid if your child had black friends or had Asian girlfriends? It seems from your comment you want to live in a whites only town and seemingly afraid when too many non-whites turn up around you. They have to integrate and we have to integrate with them as well in a multicultural society with less of your attitude.

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

I know if I was jobless and had an option to work in Asia for lower wages I would claim the dole instead.

That’s indicative of your lack of work ethic. Don’t assume your own low standards apply to all Irish people.

There are thousands of Irish gainfully employed in the UAE. Clearly, they have a skill set and drive you don’t possess.

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

Thankfully I can differentiate between the two and while I agree we cant stop language students from coming here to learn English we could tighten up a bit on the asylum claims but then again I am not in these people shoes claiming asylum and fleeing from wars so I probably would understand and relate less to their life experiences.

No you’re not capable of differentiating between migration streams. If you were, you’d understand that the overwhelming majority of language students originate outside the EU, primarily Brazil.

This is one of the substantive inward migration flows that is most easily regulated. Again, do you understand the concept of intra-EU freedom of migration? This does not apply to language students from Latin America. There is no inhibitor to curtailing this migration stream now that we are officially in recession.

Hamachi

onlinenerd wrote: »

What is this social cohesion you rave about? Would you be afraid if your child had black friends or had Asian girlfriends? It seems from your comment you want to live in a whites only town and seemingly afraid when too many non-whites turn up around you. They have to integrate and we have to integrate with them as well in a multicultural society with less of your attitude.

I’m not ‘raving’ about anything. I’m responding to your trite cliched thinking with logic.

If you want to understand the significance of social cohesion and the role of ‘diversity’ in undermining social capital, I suggest you read Robert Putnam’s research in ‘Bowling Alone’.

Naturally, you won’t take the time to dig into this research. Instead, you’ll salivate about opportunities to infer that posters who disagree with you are irredeemable racists. Carry on..

Sand

onlinenerd wrote: »

What is this social cohesion you rave about? Would you be afraid if your child had black friends or had Asian girlfriends? It seems from your comment you want to live in a whites only town and seemingly afraid when too many non-whites turn up around you. They have to integrate and we have to integrate with them as well in a multicultural society with less of your attitude.

Why? What is gained from going down that completely unnecessary path of hardship? It sounds more like a religious belief than anything thought out or considered.

You already acknowledge that London and Sweden aren't anything to emulate but they are exactly what is meant by a multicultural society.

Hamachi

Sand wrote: »

Why? What is gained from going down that completely unnecessary path of hardship? It sounds more like a religious belief than anything thought out or considered.

Indeed. When you ask posters of his ilk to quantify the rewards that multiculturalism bestow on the native population, they are never able to provide a solid answer.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. This is a doctrine to these people. They are the 21st century clerics preaching their gospel of multiculturalism. Any opinions expressed to the contrary are heretical.

Ironically, these folks are often the most vociferous in celebrating the fact that Ireland has freed itself from the shackles of Catholicism. Naturally, they’ll never acknowledge that it’s just one set of illogical beliefs replacing another.

onlinenerd

onlinenerd wrote: »

Seem like the migrants you see and I see are totally different, I see hardworking nurses and IT professionals filling in a gap that exist in the Irish market.

There is a theme with all of your posts so far. You mix terms without real consideration to their meaning. You take all types of migrants, and while you use various terms (economic, asylum, etc), you've shown you don't really consider the differences... even when they've been pointed out to you.

If these countries have sub standard education and training, why do we even hire them? Yes maybe they lack English because they speak a different language but most of these jobs have enough English that is comprehendable.

My point was in relation to asylum seekers, and economic migrants which tend to come from relatively economically poor regions, which have issues with the adequate funding of their universities. Degrees are easily achieved, due to the desire to meet labor needs, but also because of the corruption which is common among 3rd world nations.

Asylum seekers and lowly paid Eastern European workers is probably what you are referring to but I have seen some true hardworkers amongst the Eastern Europeans here even at their "menial" jobs.

That's great. However, such a statement does nothing to counteract what I said previously. You simply are not specific enough in your statements to display any serious knowledge of the topic at hand. This is seen by your repeated vague statements over the last page of the thread.

onlinenerd wrote: »

I am not questioning what the Irish or up or not up for but since Ireland provides benefits and perks here that cannot be obtained there, most chose to work here and I would say anyday Irish beat any of the candidates at the job in Asia but most wouldnt take it uo due to the cultural differences, low wages etc. I know if I was jobless and had an option to work in Asia for lower wages I would claim the dole instead.

In which case, you would be wrong, since many Asian universities are equally as good as any Irish institution, and many Asians have an amazingly strong work ethic, running from education through to success in professional level positions.

As for being jobless, why work for less? I've worked in Japan, S.Korea, China, and Thailand. I've worked as a lecturer and also as a management consultant. In both roles, I got paid as much as I would in Europe. You're showing a remarkable lack of knowledge about the world throughout this thread...

Cork_Guest

Sand wrote: »

People aren't afraid of change. They're afraid of negative outcomes for their children, wider family and people. Anyone looking at whats happening in western Europe and is beginning to emerge in Ireland ought to be worried.

These are one and the same thing, the ‘change’ is what you are saying is happening in Western Europe because of a huge influx of migrants, that is what people are saying they are afraid of happening here so therefore they are scared of change.

The fact is, after Brexit, not only will we become a much higher net contributor to the EU than we have before, we’ll also become a bigger net receiver or migrants to make up for the quota lost from the U.K.

Cork_Guest

Cork_Guest wrote: »

These are one and the same thing, the ‘change’ is what you are saying is happening in Western Europe because of a huge influx of migrants, that is what people are saying they are afraid of happening here so therefore they are scared of change.

There's a fallacy with regards to your logic... because we've experienced different kinds of migration into Ireland and other European countries, and seen the effects of that migration over time. Ireland is starting the see the effects of second generation migrants, but Europe has had that experience for some time already, with very mixed results.

There are different kinds of change in question. The first, is through passive exposure, with people being given the choice as to whether the deal with these foreign cultures or not. The second is far more active, and pushes to change the existing host culture to make migrants more "comfortable.

Take Eastern Europeans for example, excluding the Balkan cultures, since they're obviously very different due to history, religion, and cultural values. However, with Eastern groups, such as the Polish or the Latvians, we saw a significant rise in migration over the last two decades. They were welcomed into Ireland, for the most part, and didn't seek any benefits beyond the needs of EU citizens. They took up jobs in construction, many professional areas, such as office work, and mostly, integrated well into Irish society, by mixing at the bars, playing sports etc. They opened shops to sell the products they missed, and most Irish people I've known, can't stop singing the praises of the Polish, with the Latvians coming a close second. Sure, there was some initial problems with crime, especially with criminal gangs, but the average person stayed well away from trouble. Due to a similar background with the RCC, they shared many of our cultural values, and enjoyed a very community driven experience which was quite welcoming. So... a positive experience with migration, with people who integrate extremely easily, and don't expect our society to change to their needs.

Or we could look at Asian migration, which has been happening steadily for the last four decades, increasing within the last two. We see a lot of Chinese, Malaysians, and others coming into the country. They keep to themselves, don't seek to cause any waves, and tend to excel in western nations. Rather than do the jobs nobody else wants, they tend to create small businesses to cover needs in the local economy, from restaurants through to dry cleaning. Chinese and other racial/cultural groups tend to be very family centered with a strong work ethic, along with very high expectations for their children. And again, we see shops opening with their goods, and celebrations held with a very low key to them, where Irish people are welcome to share, but there's no expectation that Ireland/European nations should alter their culture to accommodate them.

However, we could jump to the migration from the Balkans, such as Romanians, who have probably one of the worst reputations throughout Europe, for trickery, thieving and general poverty. Criminal gangs are common throughout Europe coming from the Balkans, and low level individual crime is also quite common, along with the begging which is also organised along criminal lines. Or we could talk about migration from the M.East, where we have seen a migration of young males, with very strong traditional religious beliefs which are the complete opposite of western values of freedom for women, and all manner of other expressions. There is no shortage of conflict to chose from when talking about M.Eastern migrants coming into Europe, and we're also starting to see some it happen in Ireland too. We're also seeing demands from religious leaders, activists, and NGO's expecting special treatment for these minorities, and claims of racism, where there is little reason for it to exist. I always find it interesting that there is a not a similar movement for Asians, or White migrants from Europe, who need special treatment, and support from the NGOs.

People are uncomfortable with the migration that's occurring because there's no definite plan in place to integrate and process migrants in a way which would benefit the nation the most. It's a reactive process of accepting and then just letting them loose into our society with little real consideration of their backgrounds, whether that's individual or cultural.

I'm not going to write more about it because we've spoken about it, at length, throughout this thread. I'd suggest taking the last twenty pages of the thread, and read through it.... IF you are seriously interested, and not just fluttering around seeking to press buttons.

The fact is, after Brexit, not only will we become a much higher net contributor to the EU than we have before, we’ll also become a bigger net receiver or migrants to make up for the quota lost from the U.K.

It's not Brexit... we would have become a major target since Germany is restricting a lot of it's previous policies towards migrants. Anyway, Northern Europe is typically the richest part of Europe with the highest standards of living, so people will want to come here regardless.

Again, it's been said before. Just read back a bit and you'll see a variety of posters cover the topic.

Yurt2

onlinenerd wrote: »

You are indeed free to access the labour market in Middle east or India or Thailand provided you're the suitable candidate but I don't think a lot of Irish would be up for it.

No we're not (save if you're a dual citizen a ME country / India). We have no particular right to access the labour market there, and it's completely at the option of the host country.

Hamachi

Yurt! wrote: »

No we're not (save if you're a dual citizen a ME country / India). We have no particular right to access the labour market there, and it's completely at the option of the host country.

100%. I’d love to see the poster rock up in the Middle East or India with his CV in hand. The reception he receives might open his eyes a little to how the world truly operates.

I hope these types of thought processes are just student naïveté. What I find infuriating, is how confident some posters are in pushing the multicultural narrative, despite being spectacularly ignorant.

WrenBoy

onlinenerd wrote: »

What is this social cohesion you rave about? Would you be afraid if your child had black friends or had Asian girlfriends? It seems from your comment you want to live in a whites only town and seemingly afraid when too many non-whites turn up around you. They have to integrate and we have to integrate with them as well in a multicultural society with less of your attitude.

Controlled Immigration that benefits us is something Im in favour of but this concerns me.
What specific elements of our culture/customs/societal expectations should we compromise on or abandon altogether to allow us to integrate with people coming from other (quite different) cultures ?

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

100%. I’d love to see the poster rock up in the Middle East or India with his CV in hand. The reception he receives might open his eyes a little to how the world truly operates.

I hope these types of thought processes are just student naïveté. What I find infuriating, is how confident some posters are in pushing the multicultural narrative, despite being spectacularly ignorant.

I'd agree with you about the ignorance. The problem is that few of them have ever spent any significant portion of time living among these other cultural groups in their original country. They don't know the customs, attitudes and value systems at play, instead, relying on generalizations gleamed from online articles, written by people with an active stake in presenting the positives (NGO's, activists, etc)

IMHO They seem to think that simply by arriving in the West, these migrant groups will automatically absorb all the positives of western culture, and leave behind all the negatives of their own cultural backgrounds. Or they'll point to aspects of western culture they don't like, and assume that other cultural behaviors will be better... ignoring that Western nations are, by far, a fairer and more stable set of societies than almost any other nations outside.. (and those who are stable and fair, we don't see much in the way of migration from them). Instead, we're seeing mostly migration from nations which have managed to fail dramatically in preventing civil war, religious turmoil, genocide, rampant corruption, etc.

I enjoyed living in other countries with very different cultural groups, because I knew it wasn't forever. They were places where I lived a year or two, and would move on... so I didn't need to live the way they did, and compromise the way they did. Even with China, after a decade, I never had to live as a Chinese person would have, conforming to the national culture. I seriously do not want to see those aspects of other cultures become entrenched in Western nations. The corruption, not just at governmental levels, but throughout society (which is very common throughout Africa, Asia, etc). The lower expectations about values regarding freedoms, or the values about honesty, or compassion towards the weakest members of society. Or the friction that occurs between different cultural/religious groups within these foreign cultures based on centuries of distrust, and violence, combined with actual racial/tribal/cultural superiority.

When people talk about us integrating with foreign cultures, I wonder do they have a realistic understanding of the core elements of these cultures from a practical sense. Do they understand that in most cases, gender equality is a face saving exercise rather than anything remotely close to a reality. Or the hierarchies that are at play based on ethnic, or social lines, with very little in the way of social mobility. I rarely see people talk about what it is we're supposed to accept about foreign culture, and when I do, they've cherrypicked aspects without consideration to what's directly connected to it.

There's a lot of ignorance and wishful thinking going on.

Reciprocity is a load of manure...

It's all one way!

"We have to integrate with the foreign migratory masses".. lol

Strange how there never seems to be an expectation from an African or Asian in their own Countries to integrate with 'Westerners' :rolleyes:

We'll never hear this line of logic coming from the mouthboxes - there's a tacit acceptance/acknowledgement (from the do-gooders) that these are backward thinking savages that don't know any better, ergo one should keep their head down and not try to 'rock any boats' when abroad in these Afro/Asian Countries. But don't dare point this level of behaviour/lifestyle (and the attendant hypocrisy) out, and call it for what it is, without being called a 'WAAYcissst'.

So, if that is the case, why then are their rituals/practices not cut out, curbed, or curtailed; or at least expected to, when they land in a 'Western' Country. There's definitely something not right here

A couple of Scandinavians found out only too well that 'Multiculturalism' is not 'reciprocated' in other Countries...

jmreire

A lot of the pro-multiculturalists posting here are atin the best case, basing their opinion on having worked with "foreigners" ( for want of a better description ) or live beside them. But they have never actually worked or lived abroad in the Countries these people came from. And if they had then they would not be so quick to champion "Multiculturalism", and that's for sure, even if they are doing it with the best of intentions. We need to hold on to the Irish society we know and have grown up in, warts and all. Once you start bowing down to people who are easily "offended" and changing things to suit them, thats the thin end of the wedge...just try living in their Countries and being "offended" and see where that gets you...and you will see lots of things that will offend you.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Reciprocity is a load of manure...

It's all one way!

"We have to integrate with the foreign migratory masses".. lol

Strange how there never seems to be an expectation from an African or Asian in their own Countries to integrate with 'Westerners' :rolleyes:

We'll never hear this line of logic coming from the mouthboxes - there's a tacit acceptance/acknowledgement (from the do-gooders) that these are backward thinking savages that don't know any better, ergo one should keep their head down and not try to 'rock any boats' when abroad in these Afro/Asian Countries. But don't dare point this level of behaviour/lifestyle (and the attendant hypocrisy) out, and call it for what it is, without being called a 'WAAYcissst'.

So, if that is the case, why then are their rituals/practices not cut out, curbed, or curtailed; or at least expected to, when they land in a 'Western' Country. There's definitely something not right here

A couple of Scandinavians found out only too well that 'Multiculturalism' is not 'reciprocated' in other Countries...

It's a bit like globalism in general. I've read many papers by left wing academics decrying globalism being forced on developing countries, and how it is oppressive to their cultural values, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Yet these same types, have no issue with globalism being forced on westerners. We're not even allowed to complain without having some negative label attached to us.

TomTomTim

jmreire wrote: »

A lot of the pro-multiculturalists posting here are atin the best case, basing their opinion on having worked with "foreigners" ( for want of a better description ) or live beside them. But they have never actually worked or lived abroad in the Countries these people came from. And if they had then they would not be so quick to champion "Multiculturalism", and that's for sure, even if they are doing it with the best of intentions. We need to hold on to the Irish society we know and have grown up in, warts and all. Once you start bowing down to people who are easily "offended" and changing things to suit them, thats the thin end of the wedge...just try living in their Countries and being "offended" and see where that gets you...and you will see lots of things that will offend you.

The foreigners are great stuff that these types push, is based on the flawed theory that assumes that anyone who opposes multiculturalism in any form is someone who hates foreigners, which is nonsense. I'm no wishy washy humanitarian, but I take everyone as I find them. I don't hate someone until I've been given a reason to hate someone. You can easily love foreign individuals, while holding the position that too many of them would simply erode our cultural values. You simply can't replace one group with another group and expect the ship to continue sailing in the same direction.