Deleted User wrote: » Well... you're mixing migrants up here by your own phrasing. If they've come through boats, then they're most likely illegal, or under an Asylum process claim. So, comparing them to Irish people who have gone elsewhere under legal migrants as skilled labor doesn't really work. (yeah.. try going to the M.East illegally as a white person.. it won't work out well for you) Secondly, you introduced the tanned skin comment, which, in itself is quite racist, and ignorant of the situation. A large percentage of migrants who come to Ireland come from countries with various degrees of White skin. So.... Lastly, where is your evidence that the vast majority are hard working? Go on.. would love to see it. Actually, most economic migrants come from much poorer nations, with substandard education, and are often lacking in English language ability. Their contributions are usually on the bottom end of the workplaces... and that's if they are working. Many are on welfare, or are still within the asylum process receiving aid from the Irish State, so any such claims of contributions are suspect. Once again, you seem to be unsure of the origins of these migrants in Ireland. You call them economic migrants, but that's an extremely vague term.
onlinenerd wrote: » I don't see why people are so afraid of change.Cultures evolve and change over the years and so there's no point crying over the fact that my child is going to live in a different society than I did.Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits o the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.
Yurt! wrote: » I think the fundamental difference here is that the rights of movement are reciprocal between member states. I have the same right to access the labour market and to settle in Rome or Turin as an Italian does in Cork or Galway. We also pool sovereignty, share a supranational poltical system in the EU and are part of a transfer union. This is not true of non-EEA countries. I can't just roll-up in Tokyo or Cape-Town and access the labour market and the fruits of that society, and I won't be granted privileges to so unless it suits the host country. And that's probably how it should be.
onlinenerd wrote: » I don't see why people are so afraid of change.
onlinenerd wrote: » I don't see why people are so afraid of change.Cultures evolve and change over the years and so there's no point crying over the fact that my child is going to live in a different society than I did. Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits of the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.
onlinenerd wrote: » You are indeed free to access the labour market in Middle east or India or Thailand provided you're the suitable candidate but I don't think a lot of Irish would be up for it.
onlinenerd wrote: » Seem like the migrants you see and I see are totally different, I see hardworking nurses and IT professionals filling in a gap that exist in the Irish market. If these countries have sub standard education and training, why do we even hire them? Yes maybe they lack English because they speak a different language but most of these jobs have enough English that is comprehendable. Asylum seekers and lowly paid Eastern European workers is probably what you are referring to but I have seen some true hardworkers amongst the Eastern Europeans here even at their "menial" jobs.
onlinenerd wrote: » Also the hypocrisy is laughable at the fact that you were an immigrant in another EU country and reaped the benefits of the job but suddenly selfish when some foreigner is taking advantage of the same benefits in Ireland. Move along with the times.
Hamachi wrote: » Cultures evolve and change organically over time. There is nothing organic about the mass inward migration Ireland has experienced since the late 1990s. Can you not comprehend that a country transitioning from ~2% migrant background to >17% of the population within two decades, is almost unprecedented? Our nearest neighbor took almost 50 years to ‘achieve’ this state. The UK is not a society we should be seeking to emulate. Knife crime is out of control in London, accompanied by rampant white flight, with ~750,000 white Britons departing the capital throughout the last 15 years. I make no apology for not wishing that scenario upon my children. Perhaps when you have a family of your own, you’ll start to develop some understanding of the significance of social cohesion. There was nothing hypocritical about my decision to work in Germany. I was headhunted for role in the tech industry by my employer. Any German is equally free to move to Ireland under the reciprocal rights of movement. Surely you’ve heard of this rudimentary concept? Are you capable of distinguishing between high-skilled intra-EU migration and the waves of low skilled asylum seekers and language students who have washed up on our shores, who incidentally are not beneficiaries of the free movement of labor?
jmreire wrote: » And the same applies here,,if you fit the bill for what's needed, and can support yourself, Welcome. But try turning up in the Middle East, India or Thailand ( as quite a lot are doing here) without qualifications and uninvited, and see what will happen to you...you think that you will be welcomed with open arms and have access to their social welfare system ( if indeed they have a social welfare system as we would know it ) ???? I don't think so...... BTW, I worked in the Middle East for a nr of years, but never saw a welfare system as we have here,,,and furthermore, they keep a very close eye on foreigners, unlike here.
onlinenerd wrote: » I agree London and Sweden is not an ideal representation of migration and neither do I question your decision to work in Germany but have you ever thought that another German might have thought he deserved that job over you
Hamachi wrote: » Your lack of knowledge is astounding. The only way you or any other foreign national will be permitted access to the labor markets of the UAE, India, or Thailand is if you have a critical skill they are unable to source domestically. They treat inward migration as something that should be of benefit to the host society i.e. precisely the same logic Ireland should be implementing. You know nothing about what other Irish people are ‘up for’. Given the almost universally high level of education here, Irish people are amongst those most capable of fulfilling this criteria. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority opt to stay right here in Ireland, becoming stakeholders in their own society. The point that you, willfully continue to miss, is that they should only be joined here by high-skilled migrants who have legitimate skills to offer this country and do not become a financial burden on this state. Can you comprehend any of this?
Hamachi wrote: » Do you know what headhunted means? I was approached by a German employer for the role because I have a niche tech skill set. They had already exhausted recruitment options domestically. So no, I’ve never questioned if a German felt embittered, because they had first dibs on the role, as is the natural order. To reiterate again, I paid 50% of my salary in taxes, never claimed welfare, and learned the language to near native level. You still haven’t answered my question. Are you capable of distinguishing between high skilled migration of this nature and the substantial influx of dubious asylum seekers and language students to Ireland? If you are able to make this differentiation, what kind of future migration should Ireland prioritize?
onlinenerd wrote: » I know if I was jobless and had an option to work in Asia for lower wages I would claim the dole instead.
onlinenerd wrote: » Thankfully I can differentiate between the two and while I agree we cant stop language students from coming here to learn English we could tighten up a bit on the asylum claims but then again I am not in these people shoes claiming asylum and fleeing from wars so I probably would understand and relate less to their life experiences.
onlinenerd wrote: » What is this social cohesion you rave about? Would you be afraid if your child had black friends or had Asian girlfriends? It seems from your comment you want to live in a whites only town and seemingly afraid when too many non-whites turn up around you. They have to integrate and we have to integrate with them as well in a multicultural society with less of your attitude.
Sand wrote: » Why? What is gained from going down that completely unnecessary path of hardship? It sounds more like a religious belief than anything thought out or considered.
onlinenerd wrote: » Seem like the migrants you see and I see are totally different, I see hardworking nurses and IT professionals filling in a gap that exist in the Irish market.
If these countries have sub standard education and training, why do we even hire them? Yes maybe they lack English because they speak a different language but most of these jobs have enough English that is comprehendable.
Asylum seekers and lowly paid Eastern European workers is probably what you are referring to but I have seen some true hardworkers amongst the Eastern Europeans here even at their "menial" jobs.
onlinenerd wrote: » I am not questioning what the Irish or up or not up for but since Ireland provides benefits and perks here that cannot be obtained there, most chose to work here and I would say anyday Irish beat any of the candidates at the job in Asia but most wouldnt take it uo due to the cultural differences, low wages etc. I know if I was jobless and had an option to work in Asia for lower wages I would claim the dole instead.
Sand wrote: » People aren't afraid of change. They're afraid of negative outcomes for their children, wider family and people. Anyone looking at whats happening in western Europe and is beginning to emerge in Ireland ought to be worried.
Cork_Guest wrote: » These are one and the same thing, the ‘change’ is what you are saying is happening in Western Europe because of a huge influx of migrants, that is what people are saying they are afraid of happening here so therefore they are scared of change.
The fact is, after Brexit, not only will we become a much higher net contributor to the EU than we have before, we’ll also become a bigger net receiver or migrants to make up for the quota lost from the U.K.
Yurt! wrote: » No we're not (save if you're a dual citizen a ME country / India). We have no particular right to access the labour market there, and it's completely at the option of the host country.
Hamachi wrote: » 100%. I’d love to see the poster rock up in the Middle East or India with his CV in hand. The reception he receives might open his eyes a little to how the world truly operates. I hope these types of thought processes are just student naïveté. What I find infuriating, is how confident some posters are in pushing the multicultural narrative, despite being spectacularly ignorant.
Deleted User wrote: » Reciprocity is a load of manure... It's all one way! "We have to integrate with the foreign migratory masses".. lol Strange how there never seems to be an expectation from an African or Asian in their own Countries to integrate with 'Westerners' :rolleyes: We'll never hear this line of logic coming from the mouthboxes - there's a tacit acceptance/acknowledgement (from the do-gooders) that these are backward thinking savages that don't know any better, ergo one should keep their head down and not try to 'rock any boats' when abroad in these Afro/Asian Countries. But don't dare point this level of behaviour/lifestyle (and the attendant hypocrisy) out, and call it for what it is, without being called a 'WAAYcissst'. So, if that is the case, why then are their rituals/practices not cut out, curbed, or curtailed; or at least expected to, when they land in a 'Western' Country. There's definitely something not right here A couple of Scandinavians found out only too well that 'Multiculturalism' is not 'reciprocated' in other Countries...
jmreire wrote: » A lot of the pro-multiculturalists posting here are atin the best case, basing their opinion on having worked with "foreigners" ( for want of a better description ) or live beside them. But they have never actually worked or lived abroad in the Countries these people came from. And if they had then they would not be so quick to champion "Multiculturalism", and that's for sure, even if they are doing it with the best of intentions. We need to hold on to the Irish society we know and have grown up in, warts and all. Once you start bowing down to people who are easily "offended" and changing things to suit them, thats the thin end of the wedge...just try living in their Countries and being "offended" and see where that gets you...and you will see lots of things that will offend you.
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