What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

OK, but I then ask the question, if we have hundreds of thousands of unemployed people here, why aren't any of them developing the skills you need?

What is wrong with our skills base?

Is there a skills mis-match?

I'd also be interested in hearing about this.

Good call.

Scoondal

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

I like multi culturalism in Ireland. I married a Filipina 15 years younger than me.
It's brilliant !

Scoondal

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

I agree 100 %.

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

I like multi culturalism in Ireland. I married a Filipina 15 years younger than me.
It's brilliant !

That's not multiculturalism. That's you embracing some of Filipino culture. :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not multiculturalism.

Actually it is and sums up much of the eye wateringly simplistic "thinking" going on. And yet again and in this case too, the "positives" of multiculturalism come down to a hackneyed exoticism. If we could shoehorn in charity into it we'd have the full set, though I feel it would be unkind to try.

Bobblehats

Forced multiculturalism is unsolicited perversion of the state!

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

I like multi culturalism in Ireland. I married a Filipina 15 years younger than me.
It's brilliant !

Congratulations on your happy marriage.

Thats a far cry from some of the people who come here to take the piss and despise the natives.

biko

Nigeria enjoying multiculturalism.

Kano state bans alcohol, not just for Muslims but for Christians too.
http://saharareporters.com/2021/01/12/kano-sharia-law-against-sale-consumption-alcohol-binding-muslims-christians-%E2%80%93state-hisbah

The Kano government may be imposing Sharia law on non-Muslims and we’re worried
https://naija.yafri.ca/the-destruction-of-alcohol-in-kano-leaves-room-for-questions/

Mules

biko wrote: »

Nigeria enjoying multiculturalism.

Kano state bans alcohol, not just for Muslims but for Christians too.
http://saharareporters.com/2021/01/12/kano-sharia-law-against-sale-consumption-alcohol-binding-muslims-christians-%E2%80%93state-hisbah

The Kano government may be imposing Sharia law on non-Muslims and we’re worried
https://naija.yafri.ca/the-destruction-of-alcohol-in-kano-leaves-room-for-questions/

That won't end well

Mules

Mules wrote: »

That won't end well

For Europe.

Eric Cartman

Mules wrote: »

That won't end well

can't wait for the same people who've been shouting that we need to take more muslims want to shout to make us take refugees who suffer at the hands of muslims.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

can't wait for the same people who've been shouting that we need to take more muslims want to shout to make us take refugees who suffer at the hands of muslims.

I'd prefer to avoid it completely. Sharia law should not be allowed in western nations, in any form, regardless of whether it's "only" applied to Muslims, or to everyone.

Let's keep some distinctiveness and value what makes western nations differ from others.

If Muslims want to live under Sharia law, there are no shortage of countries, some of which are quite prosperous/successful, so they can have the opportunities they wish, without needing to live in a western nation. That is something that we need to remind people about. Western nations, with western laws/rights, consist of far less territory than others.

Muslims (including refugees) have other choices as to where to live... they don't need to be coming here, unless they're willing to live under western cultural laws forever..

Mules

The stats for immigration in Ireland are interesting...

The percentage of foreign born people in Ireland is 17.3%. Immigration has occured over the last 2 decades.

The percentage of foreign born people in the UK is 14%. They have had immigration since the 1950's. That's 7 decades to our 2 :eek:

The 2040 plan also includes a population increase of 1 million. Our birth rate is below replacement level so the population increase can only come from immigration.

It better work out because if we go the way of countries with racial tensions and the like, the numbers are so large we'll be fecked...

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd prefer to avoid it completely. Sharia law should not be allowed in western nations, in any form, regardless of whether it's "only" applied to Muslims, or to everyone.

Let's keep some distinctiveness and value what makes western nations differ from others.

If Muslims want to live under Sharia law, there are no shortage of countries, some of which are quite prosperous/successful, so they can have the opportunities they wish, without needing to live in a western nation. That is something that we need to remind people about. Western nations, with western laws/rights, consist of far less territory than others.

Muslims (including refugees) have other choices as to where to live... they don't need to be coming here, unless they're willing to live under western cultural laws forever..

And that the dilemma, isn't it? You can take the Muslim from an Islamic Country, but never take the Islam from the Muslim ...and one reason they like to come to western Countrys is ironically the freedom's we have here, as agsinst the conditions of their own Countrys. And as an added plus, since the 6th century, they have been continously expanding ( there were periods of pushback of course) but it has never stopped. So this is the paradox, they want to emigrate to the West, and change it to their life and customs, even if it means re-creating the same conditions that the have left behind...

rossie1977

Mules wrote: »

The stats for immigration in Ireland are interesting...

The percentage of foreign born people in Ireland is 17.3%. Immigration has occured over the last 2 decades.

The percentage of foreign born people in the UK is 14%. They have had immigration since the 1950's. That's 7 decades to our 2 :eek:

The 2040 plan also includes a population increase of 1 million. Our birth rate is below replacement level so the population increase can only come from immigration.

It better work out because if we go the way of countries with racial tensions and the like, the numbers are so large we'll be fecked...

There was ~225,000 immigrants living in Ireland in 1980 so it's definitely more than two decades..

Ireland's population is ageing rapidly. In a decade or two we won't be able to pay the pensions and health care that will be due among other things so we need huge injection in younger tax paying individuals.

The vast majority of people that come to Ireland are still European or Brazilian/US https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

1874

rossie1977 wrote: »

There was ~225,000 immigrants living in Ireland in 1980 so it's definitely more than two decades..

Ireland's population is ageing rapidly. In a decade or two we won't be able to pay the pensions and health care that will be due among other things so we need huge injection in younger tax paying individuals.

The vast majority of people that come to Ireland are still European or Brazilian/US https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

Right, so who is going to pay it? because a lot of people turning up arent paying their own way?

Mules

rossie1977 wrote: »

There was ~225,000 immigrants living in Ireland in 1980 so it's definitely more than two decades..

Ireland's population is ageing rapidly. In a decade or two we won't be able to pay the pensions and health care that will be due among other things so we need huge injection in younger tax paying individuals.

The vast majority of people that come to Ireland are still European or Brazilian/US https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

For the sake of social cohesion I think we would be better off trying to increase our own birth rate. There are policies that have been put in place in other countries, I dont know how successful they have been.

I think the fact that both parents are expected to work full time makes having kids difficult. Also, we are having kids much later so fertility problems are common. Maybe state subsidised or community run creche would also help.

It was affordable in the past for middle class families to live on one wage. I'm not sure if that's changed because buying a house is more expensive or because we spend our money on things we didn't before, so we dont save as much.
Things like food and clothes have become much cheaper though.

I think in general a smaller population is much better as we can have a better quality of life, but, as you said, we need to pay pensions.

However if our current type of immigration was purely to pay pensions, the government would stick with skilled immigrants. They want low wage labour too.

I believe that skilled immigrants are better because they cover their cost in taxes and don't rely heavily on public services. That would avoid the problem of low wage immigrants and locals competing for resources, which leads to resentment.

Kivaro

There is a serious Covid situation in Belgium, and in particular Brussels, so they have a night curfew in place. A black migrant who was arrested over the weekend for violating the curfew while with a group, lost consciousness at the police station and later died in hospital.
The result was a riot by 500 people last night where they torched a police station, vandalised local streets near the police station, and attacked King Philippe's car as it passed through the area. Maybe some of you saw the footage of this incident on television, or then again maybe you didn't, due to the context of whom the rioters were. I checked the RTE web site for any news on what is a big news event in the EU capital, but could not find any report.

While the death of the migrant was tragic, this riot occurred without the full facts of the cause of death been known. Why were 500 people allowed to gather in defiance of the Covid regulations in place? This event should surely be a warning to Ireland on the risk of rushing large scale migration and forced multiculturalism from non-EU countries.

WrenBoy

If you've learned anything from the last few weeks it should be that the political class in Ireland have nothing but disdain for the Irish people. If you are hoping for them to do the right thing and avoid the mistakes being visited upon other European countries you are living in a dream world.

doublejobbing 2

Kivaro wrote: »

While the death of the migrant was tragic, this riot occurred without the full facts of the cause of death been known. Why were 500 people allowed to gather in defiance of the Covid regulations in place? .

You're allowed to hold a public gathering of any size if it concerns the alleged mistreatment of a minority person.

The same wasters who were (rightly) aghast when Gemma O'Doherty was holding demos outside the courts with 50 people in attendance in April were supporting ones with 5000 in attendance outside the US Embassy by July. Most of these people are delighted Covid happened as they get to sit on their holes on enhanced welfare ranting on Twitter all day.

cgcsb

I think most people now view it as a failure. It was a way to get labour in France, the UK, Belgium and Germany, but the costs seem to have outweighed any potential benefits. Inter ethnic tensions and police time spent on 'culturally sensitive' crimes prove it doesn't work. People make a place and if everyone in some area is from the third world, it will look like the third world, that's why we have Balbriggan and much larger examples in countries that have gone down this rabbit hole before.

The thing is, it's not actually needed. If there is a labour shortage in Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Belgium etc. We have a common labour market with masses of unemployed in Portugal, the South of Spain, Italy and Eastern Europe. The problem is greed, you have hotel owners on RTÉ swearing blind they need visa applications simplified because they have to get a chef from Jordan who is a-ok with a bunkbed in a bedsit and a few quid to send home all because they just won't pay sufficient wages to attract labour from Europe, or even attract labour locally.

CruelCoin

I have to say it's a very positive thing for the country.

My own family is hugely varied.

Mother is half Dutch half-Chinese, dad is Dutch.
I'm married to a half Irish, half german.
One brother is married to a Ukrainian, and the other married a Vietnamese girl.

All of us are employers and/or professionally trained/educated.

The stereotype of immigrants as being minimum wage scroungers is pissy, whiney and frankly lazy.

biko

Don't lump all immigrants into one group.
Immigrants are a very diverse group with various backgrounds and skillsets.

TomTomTim

CruelCoin wrote: »

I have to say it's a very positive thing for the country.

My own family is hugely varied.

Mother is half Dutch half-Chinese, dad is Dutch.
I'm married to a half Irish, half german.
One brother is married to a Ukrainian, and the other married a Vietnamese girl.

All of us are employers and/or professionally trained/educated.

The stereotype of immigrants as being minimum wage scroungers is pissy, whiney and frankly lazy.

You're arguing against a position no one holds here, which is very common on this thread. Asian immigrants have been praised on here many times, and most of us think European immigration works well, as we have similar cultures for the most part.

biko

biko wrote: »

Don't lump all immigrants into one group.
Immigrants are a very diverse group with various backgrounds and skillsets.

Oddly enough, I find the people/posters who are most willing to consider the different groups/categories of migrants, and make distinctions between them, tend to be those against unskilled immigration/multiculturalism..

CruelCoin wrote: »

The stereotype of immigrants as being minimum wage scroungers is pissy, whiney and frankly lazy.

Sure it is.. and it would be untrue. Many migrants are very productive, and provide genuinely positive contributions to the nation.

The problem, though, is that general stereotypes arise over time, because a sizable percentage of the migrant population does end up on welfare, needing government supplements for extended periods, ends up on low skilled/low income employment, etc. That's even more of a concern with certain national/cultural groups, whose race is then reflected on others like them.

And while that's unfair, it's also human nature, and is something to be found worldwide. Associations are often made based on race, gender, nationality, etc.

Arthur Daley

rossie1977 wrote: »

Ireland's population is ageing rapidly. In a decade or two we won't be able to pay the pensions and health care that will be due among other things so we need huge injection in younger tax paying individuals.

Youth unemployment in the massive job market that Ireland is already part of is running at over 30% in places. With 16m people unemployed in the EU and hundreds of thousands unemployed throughout Ireland.

To 'pay for your pensions' migrants into the EU will need to be higher rate taxpayers. As a pensioner myself I appreciate this.

There are a limited number of these jobs, they are not the majority of the workforce, and competition is fierce for a well paying job in an expensive country.

So without so much as a vote the model you seem to be advocating is a brain drain from all corners of the planet to the highest paying jobs in Ireland, to (quite cynically one could say) extract tax from these migrants, while the native population have a street fight over whatever is left. All to pay the pensions.

This policy then leaves the source country without it's brightest minds, with families and local communities split asunder and the domestic economies of these countries are destined to remain wastelands.

cgcsb

CruelCoin wrote: »

I have to say it's a very positive thing for the country.

My own family is hugely varied.

Mother is half Dutch half-Chinese, dad is Dutch.
I'm married to a half Irish, half german.
One brother is married to a Ukrainian, and the other married a Vietnamese girl.

All of us are employers and/or professionally trained/educated.

The stereotype of immigrants as being minimum wage scroungers is pissy, whiney and frankly lazy.

People living in different European countries isn't what 'multi-culturalism' is about though. And East Asian migrants, although quite culturally distinct from Europeans, are not the group of people about whom there is controversy, as you well know.

Wibbs

CruelCoin wrote: »

I have to say it's a very positive thing for the country.

My own family is hugely varied.

Mother is half Dutch half-Chinese, dad is Dutch.
I'm married to a half Irish, half german.
One brother is married to a Ukrainian, and the other married a Vietnamese girl.

All of us are employers and/or professionally trained/educated.

The stereotype of immigrants as being minimum wage scroungers is pissy, whiney and frankly lazy.

Those of European and East Asian origin(and Indians) are less likely to be on social welfare than the background native Irish population. Those of Middle Eastern and African origin who didn't enter the country through legal employment channels are significantly more likely to be not working and in receipt of social welfare and social housing and are a drain on our tax base and services. I can post links to Irish government and academic sources to prove this. It's not conjecture or scaremongering, it's demonstrable if uncomfortable fact and is repeated with remarkable consistency throughout western Europe and the western world for that matter.

I'd bet the farm that all those folks in your family came here legally and through the proper channels. And fair enough. You say that it's a positive for the country because your family contains positives. I have friends and exes that fit a simialr pattern to your own and they were indeed positives. However that does not mean multiculturalism is a positive overall, unless we heavily restrict entrance into this country and strongly select for those who will be a positive. Birthright citizenship certainly didn't do that, neither does much of the asylum process and handing out 1000's of residency papers to the "undocumented" migrants as the justice minister is currently pushing isn't either. The latter are people living here illegally, not paying income and other taxes and for quite a while.

CruelCoin

Wibbs wrote: »

However that does not mean multiculturalism is a positive overall, unless we heavily restrict entrance into this country and strongly select for those who will be a positive.

I'm all in favour of a points based system if that's what you're hinting at.
Something like whats in place in Australia and is (or will be)in the UK.

Arthur Daley

CruelCoin wrote: »

I'm all in favour of a points based system if that's what you're hinting at.
Something like whats in place in Australia and is (or will be)in the UK.

You know, we all seem to see the need for a points based system of some sort. But we've gone 20 years into this and don't have it. Which is a phenomenal oversight really considering the numbers involved, the cost and the debt the country is in. And from what we can see there is nobody proposing one and in some circles (RTE etc) the topic is verboten.

Some democracy at work there.