Is America losing its allure?

Risingshadoo

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, most Americans do take plenty of time off. The 10 days vacation thing that Irish like to point to is generally for entry level jobs or really ****ty jobs at ****ty companies.

I get 28 vacation days plus 2 floating holidays plus 12 regular "bank" holidays.
Most people I know get around the same. If you stay at the same company your loyalty is rewarded with increasing vacation time. If you move jobs you negotiate vacation time as part of your package.

My spouse, as a contractor, is paid quite enough more as a contractor to cover unpaid leave.

American?

The One Doctor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I agree. I cannot stand those people, the ones with the Hollister clothes and talking with an accent. I hear this kinda thing and I feel like reminding them that they are from Dunmanway….not San Francisco.

I think that the ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit - a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose fire sides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live.

Sounds like someone resurrected DeValera. Howrya Dev, I've always wanted to know if you considered yourself American, Spanish or just plain stupid?

CrankyHaus

Saying the whole place is a kip is just as stupid as saying the whole place is a utopia.

In a massive country spanning a continent you can find examples to prove anything you want to say about it.

The thing is that it wasn't that long ago that the US was way ahead of the rest of the world. It had riches, freedom and a vibrant culture when most of the world was poor, unfree and dreadfully boring.

The rest of the world has come on a lot since, while the engine of prosperity in the US has spluttered for many, freedom has been reduced steadily since the 90s and the culture is in decline.

It's like how you have yanks nostalgic for the 50s, could you imagine anyone nostalgic for 1950s Ireland?

iamstop

I lived in Chicago from 2000 to 2003. So I was there when the planes hit the Twin Towers. That was the beginning of the end IMHO.
Moved back to Ireland and got my edu-ma-ction.
I have lived in Canada since 2013 and the general feeling I get here is much more at ease than when I lived in Chicago. I'm in Winnipeg, which, even though it is often the winner of the murder per capita award in Canada, it's still more chill on the day to day than Chicago.
Don't get me wrong, I have an amazing experience in Chicago at the time, met some amazing people who I'm still in contact with and have visited recently, but I don't have any desire to live there again.
Yeah the winter sucks and is WAY too long here in Winnipeg but Canada suits me more than the US.

Edgware

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

But of course!

The kids in those areas think they are in the Irish equivalent of the OC.
Just without the weather.

So America would appeal to them.

Unlike the rural villages of Ireland where its popular to sleep with your cousin

Electric Sheep

Risingshadoo wrote: »

American?

Yes.

Padre_Pio

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Saying the whole place is a kip is just as stupid as saying the whole place is a utopia.

In a massive country spanning a continent you can find examples to prove anything you want to say about it.

You know how Americans say "oh you're from Europe?" and you inwardly laugh at such a vague understanding of Europe's scale and diversity, saying America, like it's one homogeneous mono cultural places is similar.

It's definitely more homogeneous and mono cultural than Europe, but New Yorkers, Texans, Californians and those from the Mid-West don't have a lot in common.

branie2

I hope not!

jrosen

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Devil's Advocate here.

If American's saw how much tax we paid here, but that we were still paying for private healthcare and still having to pay when we go to a GP, they'd ask.

"So why are you paying all this tax then?"

I doubt it. They may pay less tax but they pay through the absolute nose for healthcare.

Electric Sheep

jrosen wrote: »

I doubt it. They may pay less tax but they pay through the absolute nose for healthcare.

And, as with anything else, you get what you pay for.

Daisy78

iamstop wrote: »

I lived in Chicago from 2000 to 2003. So I was there when the planes hit the Twin Towers. That was the beginning of the end IMHO.
Moved back to Ireland and got my edu-ma-ction.
I have lived in Canada since 2013 and the general feeling I get here is much more at ease than when I lived in Chicago. I'm in Winnipeg, which, even though it is often the winner of the murder per capita award in Canada, it's still more chill on the day to day than Chicago.
Don't get me wrong, I have an amazing experience in Chicago at the time, met some amazing people who I'm still in contact with and have visited recently, but I don't have any desire to live there again.
Yeah the winter sucks and is WAY too long here in Winnipeg but Canada suits me more than the US.

What specifically did you not like?

trashcan

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Saying the whole place is a kip is just as stupid as saying the whole place is a utopia.

In a massive country spanning a continent you can find examples to prove anything you want to say about it.

That's probably it in a nutshell. I'm sure it very much depends on where you are, and how much money you have, like many places really. I've been once, on "vacation" to Florida, theme parks etc, about 20 years ago. It was grand for a holiday. Don't think I'd want to live there. My only other experience was transiting through JFK airport on the way to South America, where I found the airport staff very rude and unfriendly, borderline aggressive.

Strumms

Good jib! wrote: »

I think people are starting to realise that we actually have it quite good here in our neck of the woods. Decent healthcare, proper food standards, and none of that divisive Red vs Blue stuff.

Obviously given the size of the place there are still many great places to visit in the US, but apart from that I feel overall the average Irish person has a higher quality of life than the average American.

It’s not a divisive country here. Politics unless you are actively involved be it member, activist or employee is really only something that is discussed in depth around elections, scandals or a period of say, prolonged difficulty such as the recession or covid as we are seeing now.

Frontline healthcare is generally good as long as it’s not any sort of intensive and long term treatment or expertise that’s going to be required. Then you BETTER have either money or health insurance or a big slice of luck as in knowing someone..

jrosen

Electric Sheep wrote: »

And, as with anything else, you get what you pay for.

You would hope so, but not in my experience. Its all about the money and less about the care.

TuringBot47

mr_fegelien wrote: »

... has America became a first world nation relegated to third world status?

Has After Hours become a forum relegated to uneducated minds regurgitating media fed opinions but no real world experience ?

Any opinions you might have would be inadmissible in court as hearsay.
You hear all these things from the TV and internet only.

America is the leading example of unregulated capitalism.
Winners will succeed.
Losers will live in poverty, resent and lash out at the rest of society for their own failures.

Middle class American is just fine, people have jobs, nice houses and all the economies of scale that a larger country brings. Apart from being ripped off by mobile, cable and internet providers.

Brussels Sprout

I was a child in the 80's and 90's. Some people on here might not remember Ireland pre-boom but there was a massive inferiority complex. We'd been independent for 70 years and it was just rolling waves of recession and emigration. At the same time as a child anyway it seemed to be a given that the USA was the best place on earth. People would talk about how rich they were over there and their big cars, fancy gadgets and all the cool things that they had that you couldn't even buy over here etc etc.

At that time there was certainly an allure. Since then though I've grown up, Ireland has advanced and USA seems to be going in the opposite direction.

There is no allure anymore. Just some of the things that are messed up about it:

• Eye-watering cost of higher education
• Crippling cost of HealthCare
• 10 day holidays, no sick days, no maternity leave, terrible job security
• Dressing up selfishness by calling it liberty
• A federal political system that doesn't function in these partisan times unless one party controls the 3 branches of power
• A political system that allows unlimited donations via loopholes which, as a result gives the wealthy disproportionate clout
• Gun violence, school shootings, & the NRA
• People who watch Fox News and believe it to be true
• The fetishisation of the US military at sporting events
• How they treat those living in poverty

...and that's not even mentioning the topics that are to the fore this week over there which are totally messed up and have been for a long long time.

Edgware

jrosen wrote: »

I doubt it. They may pay less tax but they pay through the absolute nose for healthcare.

Depending on your employment you can get a health insurance package which will give good family cover. It is a massive country with immense differences in attitudes, polutical beliefs etc. Sparsely populated states like Montana, North Dakota, Wyoming wont have the issues that Alabama, Mississippi have.
Too many Irish have formed their opinions about the U.S. on T.V. shows.
Would you judge Ireland on what you see in Glenroe or Fair City?

Edgware

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Has After Hours become a forum relegated to uneducated minds regurgitating media fed opinions but no real world experience ?

Any opinions you might have would be inadmissible in court as hearsay.
You hear all these things from the TV and internet only.

America is the leading example of unregulated capitalism.
Winners will succeed.
Losers will live in poverty, resent and lash out at the rest of society for their own failures.

Middle class American is just fine, people have jobs, nice houses and all the economies of scale that a larger country brings. Apart from being ripped off by mobile, cable and internet providers.

Whereas in Ireland the worker subsidises the wasters on the dole and the rich who can use the system to evade tax.

jrosen

Edgware wrote: »

Depending on your employment you can get a health insurance package which will give good family cover. It is a massive country with immense differences in attitudes, polutical beliefs etc. Sparsely populated states like Montana, North Dakota, Wyoming wont have the issues that Alabama, Mississippi have.
Too many Irish have formed their opinions about the U.S. on T.V. shows.
Would you judge Ireland on what you see in Glenroe or Fair City?

Well I lived there so my opinion is based on actually living there and using their health system.

the14thwarrior

my personal experience was overall very good, until I got tired of the race and when things got better in Ireland, i moved back home. Don't regret a bit of it.
My experience of USA was from a student, and (legal) worker in a variety of jobs:
- mega bucks for a minor injury took me years to pay off
- excellent health care when i got quiet sick later on with great insurance
- great money, able to work three jobs to save tons money
- great summer, able to deal with winter with councils salting, road etc.
- great short hop breaks;
- great education with government funds and scholarships (but standard lower than here so easy for me to do)
- terrible culture of materialism, how much do you earn and what do you do?
- working long hours, 10 days holidays year, no entitlements, terrible job security
-working longer hours to earn more money to get kids to good school, then good university, big car, longer hours, better pension, 501k - where does it end? It doesn't, you are in the rat race
- move house to good neighbourhool to avoid murders, volence, etc.
- long, lonely nights and days, no easy chatting to anyone, no looking crooked at anyone, strange people, angry, hard to explain.
- the idea of going out for a quick pint or a walk at 9 o clock at night is unheard of. everyone is too afraid or in bed for work the next day.
- e.g. one of my college classess started at 7.30 in the morning. seriously.........

no point in saying all above in ireland. not the same. never will be.
i came home and just enjoy the easiness of the people - we are not perfect
but we still have the ability to nod hello, bit of a joke with perfect strangers, nicer, polite way about us, respect each other better in ireland, can't get away with the bull****.....
-
but i still like USA for a holiday!!!

helimachoptor

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

In the past, I thought it might be cool to live in the US for a few years. Now, I don't feel so inclined at all. No interest.

Yeah I was the same. Now I'd be very disinclined to move there.

TuringBot47

Edgware wrote: »

Whereas in Ireland the worker subsidises the wasters on the dole and the rich who can use the system to evade tax.

Which rich are you talking about?
From your attitude I doubt you actually know any rich people.

"Artists" are given a tax cut to stay in the country and be taxed, as opposed to feck off to California or the like and pay zero tax.

Entrepreneurs are taxed on their salary, but most make their money when they vest their shares which are also taxed.

The One Doctor

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes.

I suppose it could be worse, you could be from North Korea.

Electric Sheep

the14thwarrior wrote: »

my
- the idea of going out for a quick pint or a walk at 9 o clock at night is unheard of. everyone is too afraid or in bed for work the next day.
- e.g. one of my college classess started at 7.30 in the morning. seriously.........

Where the hell were you living? When I lived in NY we usually didn't even go out until 11m and had no issues with walking or taking the subway at 4am. I've walked one alone here in Boston at 2am with no fear or issues.

mr_fegelien

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Where the hell were you living? When I lived in NY we usually didn't even go out until 11m and had no issues with walking or taking the subway at 4am. I've walked one alone here in Boston at 2am with no fear or issues.

But you're most likely a woman. I've heard it's more dangerous for men to be walking by themselves late at night compared to women.

riclad

America is run on crony capitalism, big corporations get tax breaks depending on who they donate to. Yes it may work if you have a good job and good health care. The government pays for drug research then some private Company gets to patent that drug, one year the drug is ten dollars, the next year it's a 1000 dollars. There's 1000,s of people in prison for minor drug crimes most of them Latina or black. There's one Law for the rich one law for the poor see Epstein and o j Simpson. If you can afford to
to pay expensive lawyers you, ll probably stay out of prison or get a minimal sentence. Theres more equality in Ireland. People in Ireland don, t have to worry about some weirdo shooting up the school
See the protests going on now protesting against police
treatment of minoritys. We don't have racist politicians
who support extremists who hate minority groups
Theres a big gap between the republicans vs democrats
Some states may have to go bankrupt due to the lockdown loss in tax revenues they may have to lay off teachers doctors nurses essential workers. This makes no sense. The local economy in the states cannot recover with financial aid bills passed by Congress. It seems no longer to be united as in united states. America is no longer a world leader. It spends billions on weapons and the military but it seems ready to allow Russia and China to gain more influence in world affairs help from Congress. And most places have one or two broadband providers so fast Internet is expensive
more expensive than Ireland. Many rural area, s have no fast Internet available at all even though comcast and Att got billions in tax breaks to provide more broadband outside urban area, s. In most states unions are only for the civil service. Nurses teachers. Workers work for a very low wage with little acess to health care. The middle class in good jobs still have to pay a lot to have good private
health care. The cost of health care is the no 1cost of people going bankrupt in America. The cost of health care and education has increased in the last ten years the average wage has not kept up with the cost of getting a degree in a good university
Unless you have a very good qualification, Eg programmer, doctor, nurse I cannot see why any Irish person would want to live in America

Electric Sheep

The One Doctor wrote: »

I suppose it could be worse, you could be from North Korea.

Or living in Ireland :pac:

iamstop

Daisy78 wrote: »

What specifically did you not like?

A few incidents I was in the vicinity of that involved guns being fired, for one. There was just an overall sense that you had to constantly be on guard. Kinda like the feeling you might get walking through some parts of Dublin at night, but pretty much everywhere and all the time. It's not 100% amped up heighten awareness as paranoia level but it's a constant low level hum. It wears on you over time.
As I said, I've been back to visit and hopefully will again but just not to live. The allure is gone. I can do just as well in Canada and live a lot more stress free.

Ubbquittious

Never had much allure. Something very bland and devoid of culture and community about the place.

Still wouldn't mind going to college there for a year to hang out on a lovely leafy campus all day

TuringBot47

mr_fegelien wrote: »

But you're most likely a woman. I've heard it's more dangerous for men to be walking by themselves late at night compared to women.

Then you better bring your rape whistle there in case you get attacked.
Try not to dress provocatively, that's just asking for it.