Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Cork Boy 53

road_high wrote: »

I’m FG and can conclude objectively he’s been a very disappointing Taoiseach. He’s not a natural leader, he hangs back all the time. Never nails his colours to the mast, always kite flying. I think a new person will bring fresh energy to the office, that’s likely Micheal Martin. I feel he has a more genuine empathy with the ordinary person

Would this be the same Micheal Martin that was a senior Cabinet minister during the credit and property bubble that when it burst resulted in hundreds of thousands of these "ordinary persons" losing their livelihoods and worse?

Jackman25

yawhat? wrote: »

There is logic to it. The fact that you are incapable of seeing it is not particularly surprising.

Enlighten us so?

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

My patience has run out because of what total bull**** it all is. You can lock yourself at home and tape up the doors window and chimney...

Listening to the constant media fear mongering with the largest leftist media on the planet, doesn't help...

They seem to have no intention of bringing dates forward. You can go and hide from the Mickey mouse virus, I'm not

You probably shouldn't have voted for FG in the last election then.

As for largest leftist media, that's the best laugh I've had all morning.

niallo27

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Now that the rate of infection has dropped so low, because of the tight restrictions, they can begin to accelerate the lifting of containment measures. But there will be surges, it's about balancing society and the economy with containing the virus to acceptable levels. It will need constant monitoring and quick, fluid responses. The very last thing Ireland needs is a re-introduction of severe containment measures and a spike that overwhelms the health service.

The rest of Europe is not being overwhelmed, Sweden was not overwhelmed despite having less icu beds than us. UK's health service was not overwhelmed. Why do you think ours would be out of interest.

dubdaymo

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

There is no logic to this whatsoever.

Don't forget that the decisions are being dictated by "medical experts" and/or "scientists". When I was a youngster we used to love seeing fillums with "mad scientists" - that's the overall title we lumped them all under. It was great fun but we knew they'd all meet their comeuppance in the end.

Sadly, these days, no matter what field we are talking about, the "mad scientists" have taken over and some have even become revered. The unfortunate part is that "mad scientists" don't do logic, they don't meet their comeuppance anymore and they all suffer from one terrible ailment. It's called Tunnel Vision.

road_high

road_high wrote: »

I’m FG and can conclude objectively he’s been a very disappointing Taoiseach. He’s not a natural leader, he hangs back all the time. Never nails his colours to the mast, always kite flying. I think a new person will bring fresh energy to the office, that’s likely Micheal Martin. I feel he has a more genuine empathy with the ordinary person

Martin is a fecking sleeveeyn git, even for a politician. If you think that the restrictions would be any different with them in power your having a pipe dream.

The only difference if FF were in power would be that the FG folks on here would have an additional twist in their knickers.

yawhat?

Jackman25 wrote: »

Enlighten us so?

Another live one.

It’s to dampen down the geographical spread of the virus.

It’s not saying a person from 2km away is less risk than a person from 7km away.

The logic is pretty simple. To say there is no logic is pretty stupid. If you can’t see the logic, then you are pretty simple.

You might not agree with the measure, but that’s a different argument.

Micky 32

To be honest i don’t agree with it being called a Mickey Mouse virus. For most people it probably will be but in my situation i have to be cautious..

Both my parents are in their 70’s. They are quite fit and active but both have heart conditions. Even with their conditions they still could get another good 10 years.

If they got this virus tomorrow it could take those potential 10 years away in a blink of an eye. As we all know 10 years in a short lifetime is a nice chunk out of anyone’s lifespan. You can do lots in 10 years.

However I’m all for easing restrictions in correlation to how bad it is. If it keeps improving the way it has been some phases should definitely be brought forward.

niallo27

yawhat? wrote: »

Another live one.

It’s to dampen down the geographical spread of the virus.

It’s not saying a person from 2km away is less risk than a person from 7km away.

The logic is pretty simple. To say there is no logic is pretty stupid. If you can’t see the logic, then you are pretty simple.

You might not agree with the measure, but that’s a different argument.

If it so effective, why are the rest of europe not doing it.

Professor Moriarty

niallo27 wrote: »

The rest of Europe is not being overwhelmed, Sweden was not overwhelmed despite having less icu beds than us. UK's health service was not overwhelmed. Why do you think ours would be out of interest.

Well, their death rates are much higher. Also, Spain and Italy were overwhelmed. A spike in cases, depending on its severity, will place pressure on the health service. Remember, cancer screening, elective surgery, etc. have been stopped. Talking to a GP recently, she said that they expected 10,000 extra cases of severe cancer in the UK next year as a result of people not being tested and screened.

faceman

Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

yawhat?

niallo27 wrote: »

If it so effective, why are the rest of europe not doing it.

Again, I’m not arguing about it’s effectiveness. I was responding to poster who said there was no logic to it. There is a logic to it.

MickeyLeari

faceman wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

That is the key question.

Micky 32

faceman wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the goals are here? We were told flatten the curve. Then r value less than 1 (currently 0.4). So what are our targets/goals/objectives?

If on this thread i think the goal for some of the posters is to get it down to zero cases. Then stay in lockdown further to keep it there just in case it comes back

niallo27

yawhat? wrote: »

Again, I’m not arguing about it’s effectiveness. I was responding to poster who said there was no logic to it. There is a logic to it.

Well if it is not effective then surely there is no logic to it.

MickeyLeari

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Would this be the same Micheal Martin that was a senior Cabinet minister during the credit and property bubble that when it burst resulted in hundreds of thousands of these "ordinary persons" losing their livelihoods and worse?

That Government did make a lot of mistakes (and avoidable ones) but they did build a lot of roads and invested in infrastructure plus Martin was responsible for the most important public health measure this country has ever introduced and we were a leader in that.

What we are facing now is far worse. We have no room to manoeuvre.

yawhat?

niallo27 wrote: »

Well if it is not effective then surely there is no logic to it.

You can explain it to them, but you can’t make them understand.

Thelonious Monk

My parents were having beers and food in a restaurant in Spain last night and sending me pictures, lucky gits. Now they live in the Communidad de Valencia, which wasn't affected badly by the disease, and the regions have their own autonomy on these rules, and tbf everyone sits outside in Spain, but if they're already up and running in Spain, surely we could do the same in Ireland, given our low transmission rate?
I live in Dublin but see no reason why restaurants and pubs can't be open in rural Ireland, for people who live in the area. If we stick to our travel restrictions (even though our lame police force don't seem to be enforcing any laws at all, covid related or not), how would this cause any issues?
I don't even want to go to pubs or restaurants myself, but it would help morale and the economy if this were to happen. The illness isn't going away, we need to just suck it up at this stage, and I was a staunch supporter of the measures for the first couple of months.

Cork Boy 53

MickeyLeari wrote: »

That Government did make a lot of mistakes (and avoidable ones) but they did build a lot of roads and invested in infrastructure plus Martin was responsible for the most important public health measure this country has ever introduced and we were a leader in that.

What we are facing now is far worse. We have no room to manoeuvre.

And who also was responsible for founding the HSE the organisation that has come under fire for many reasons a lot of them justifiable in fairness.

MickeyLeari

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And who also was responsible for founding the HSE the organisation that has come under fire for many reasons a lot of them justifiable in fairness.

Was it not Harney who pushed that? HSE is not as good as it could be but what was there before was no great shakes either.

Cork Boy 53

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Was it not Harney who pushed that? HSE is not as good as it could be but what was there before was no great shakes either.

Not really. Harney took over as Health Minister when it was up and running but Martin was responsible for dismantling the previous regional Health Boards and setting up the HSE.

fleet_admiral

DubInMeath wrote: »

You probably shouldn't have voted for FG in the last election then.

As for largest leftist media, that's the best laugh I've had all morning.

If you can't see that the Irish media is completely left then you've had youre head in the sand

MickeyLeari

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Not really. Harney took over as Health Minister when it was up and running but Martin was responsible for dismantling the previous regional Health Boards and setting up the HSE.

And FG came in and dismantled the Board. The previous health boards were sub-optimal as is the HSE - the idea itself was ok - the problem was vested interests and the unwillingness of successive governments to take them on.

Ginger n Lemon

The other side of lockdown Simon Harris never speaks about

Women report being strangled, raped and beaten as calls to helpline surge during lockdown

CALLS TO CHARITY Women’s Aid have risen by nearly 40% since the start of the Covid-19 restrictions.

New figures released today by the organisation show that it received over 4,000 calls to its 24-hour domestic abuse helpline since late March – a 39% increase on the same period last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/womens-aid-coronavius-covid-19-helpline-domestic-violence-5110363-May2020/

By removing most of these nonsense restrictions not only businesses will benefit but people too.

fleet_admiral

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The other side of lockdown Simon Harris never speaks about

Women report being strangled, raped and beaten as calls to helpline surge during lockdown

CALLS TO CHARITY Women’s Aid have risen by nearly 40% since the start of the Covid-19 restrictions.

New figures released today by the organisation show that it received over 4,000 calls to its 24-hour domestic abuse helpline since late March – a 39% increase on the same period last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/womens-aid-coronavius-covid-19-helpline-domestic-violence-5110363-May2020/

By removing most of these nonsense restrictions not only businesses will benefit but people too.

I know men who have rang women's aid because the helpline for male abuse victims isn't 24hr

Doctor Jimbob

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My parents were having beers and food in a restaurant in Spain last night and sending me pictures, lucky gits. Now they live in the Communidad de Valencia, which wasn't affected badly by the disease, and the regions have their own autonomy on these rules, and tbf everyone sits outside in Spain, but if they're already up and running in Spain, surely we could do the same in Ireland, given our low transmission rate?
I live in Dublin but see no reason why restaurants and pubs can't be open in rural Ireland, for people who live in the area. If we stick to our travel restrictions (even though our lame police force don't seem to be enforcing any laws at all, covid related or not), how would this cause any issues?
I don't even want to go to pubs or restaurants myself, but it would help morale and the economy if this were to happen. The illness isn't going away, we need to just suck it up at this stage, and I was a staunch supporter of the measures for the first couple of months.

I can't see a rational reason to not go for a regional approach at this stage. There are plenty of counties that have had no new cases or near enough to it for days now.

I'd say the main reason against it is fear of people kicking up a fuss in areas that have a high number of cases.

the kelt

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My parents were having beers and food in a restaurant in Spain last night and sending me pictures, lucky gits. Now they live in the Communidad de Valencia, which wasn't affected badly by the disease, and the regions have their own autonomy on these rules, and tbf everyone sits outside in Spain, but if they're already up and running in Spain, surely we could do the same in Ireland, given our low transmission rate?
I live in Dublin but see no reason why restaurants and pubs can't be open in rural Ireland, for people who live in the area. If we stick to our travel restrictions (even though our lame police force don't seem to be enforcing any laws at all, covid related or not), how would this cause any issues?
I don't even want to go to pubs or restaurants myself, but it would help morale and the economy if this were to happen. The illness isn't going away, we need to just suck it up at this stage, and I was a staunch supporter of the measures for the first couple of months.

Because apparently it’s completely impossible and unfair to treat rural Ireland any differently by all accounts.

That is of course until it comes to infrastructure, investment, jobs etc then it’s perfectly acceptable to treat rural Ireland differently

Tenzor07

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Now that the rate of infection has dropped so low, because of the tight restrictions, they can begin to accelerate the lifting of containment measures. But there will be surges, it's about balancing society and the economy with containing the virus to acceptable levels. It will need constant monitoring and quick, fluid responses. The very last thing Ireland needs is a re-introduction of severe containment measures and a spike that overwhelms the health service.

I'd like to see the direct facts/figures which says that Tight Restrictions was the reason the R0 rate dropped down?
Or was it the case that the virus was spread by larger numbers of asymptomatic carriers to those with pre-existing conditions such as weakened immune systems and may have died due to complications and comorbidity who were the most likely to die when the virus first arrived in Ireland?

If the initial high rate of deaths were due to the most vulnerable groups passing away first, and taking into account that we look at the new cases per day as say 50 but in reality could be 500 or 5000 as we've no mass-testing going on, then what's your evidence of these "Spikes that will overwhelm the health service" when it hasn't been overwhelmed already, what will make any future spikes worse than when we carried on as if there was no virus? After all, we're all better at hygiene awareness and physical distancing now...

fret_wimp2

Deleted User wrote: »

Phoenix Park is more than 5km from Stephens Green. Unless you literally went in the gate at the courts and stopped.

And that’s assuming you live on Stephens Green.

You practically admitted to breaking the rules.

the rules are a 5k radius.
Radius is a straight line from the perimeter of a circle to the center of the same circle.
There are tools to even show you what that is.

Here is a circle of 5 k radius encompassing the entire phoenix park & stephens green.
In case its not clear, someone can go from one side of the circle to the other.

I guess its no wonder you break the rules, you dont even understand them.
There could be a plus, you may not have been actually breaking them even though you were trying!

polesheep

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No problem, I'll explain. The government and its advisors had this pandemic dumped on them suddenly. As did every other government in the world. They're not particularly evil or stupid people so they did what they thought was the right thing based on advice (often conflicting) from WHO, other governments, HSE etc. The decisions they made, based on scant data, were literally life or death. I feel sorry for them having to do this. I find people who attack them and their advisors, and dismiss their pressure and stress, to be shallow, pampered and self-entitled fools who are lashing out blindly. They're usually the perfect fodder for political manipulation. Useful idiots.

So anyone who criticises the government and its advisors is "pampered and self-entitled fools who are lashing out blindly. They're usually the perfect fodder for political manipulation. Useful idiots." That still makes no sense to any intelligent person.