Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Jayesdiem

average_runner wrote: »

We need to monitor it so we don't make the same mistakes and we can continue to move forward. Also we need to monitor it as our hospitals can't handle a high R rate, that' s a pretty good reason also

We don’t need to monitor it one bit. But don’t worry, we will. And we’ll all pay for it

GocRh

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

All modern economies will be at 1 metre or 1.5 metre. It will just take our government couple of extra months to monitor this and get comfortable with following rest of developed world.

In Singapore distance is 1 metre, and Singapore is a very densely populated city state. They went into lockdown almost a month after we did, and last week have re-opened most businesses (including restaurants, bars and religious services).
Community transmission under 10 cases per day (excluding foreign worker dormitories which are all in partial lock down).
There's no reason to maintain the 2 metre rule in a sparsely populated country like Ireland. Even Dublin isn't particularly densely populated when compared to other capital cities in Europe.

Public transport is a complete mess because of the 2 metre rule, buses in Dublin are running at 25% capacity (2 metre rule + no standing passengers allowed).

SusieBlue

manniot2 wrote: »

If Germany's R level goes up - is that now the only measure of success in society? Does it count for more than cancer screenings and other health issues, mental health services, livelihoods, education? When are people going to start looking at this virus with a bit of balance - yes it is bad for older/vulnerable people but it is not the only threat to them or to society.

Unfortunately some people seem to think that the only thing you can die from is Coronavirus.

Many other people will lose their lives and have their futures taken away as a result of the long drawn out easing of restrictions. They matter too.
They are just as important and worthy of consideration and shouldn’t be sacrificed to ‘save one life’ from coronavirus.

acequion

People will be singing off a very different hymn sheet when Corona is just a bad memory and we're all dreading the 3rd austerity budget. Wondering what's for the chop this time. What cuts to SNAs in schools, what cuts to an already derisory home help service to the elderly. What further cuts in our dire health service. What new taxes, what pay cuts, how to pay the bills and the mortgage!!

These are the figures that will strike fear and preoccupy minds, not RO rates, not confirmed cases, they'll be well forgotten or a tag on at the end of the daily news.

manniot2

SusieBlue wrote: »

Unfortunately some people seem to think that the only thing you can die from is Coronavirus.

Many other people will lose their lives and have their futures taken away as a result of the long drawn out easing of restrictions. They matter too.
They are just as important and worthy of consideration and shouldn’t be sacrificed to ‘save one life’ from coronavirus.

The unjustified fear that has been put into people is just incredible. I see it in my own parents - both are mid 60s and healthy. They are basically afraid to leave the house, wont let us visit with grand kids, wont socialise or meet their friends. My Dad was driving a taxi as a retirement gig and he has given it up now and is saying he wont work again. The irony is, they have both put on weight and are probably less healthy (physically and mentally) and active then they were 4 months ago.

I really feel like the major turning point will come on 1st September. That is when the Covid payments will be gone. By then I also imagine banks will be demanding that people start paying back mortgages / loans. At that point landlords will have to demand rent from tenants again and evict if necessary.

This is when the narrative from media / government will start to move away from Covid and onto the recession.

The new government will likely have to introduce some very difficult measures on people in the budget. With all the extra people on social welfare, things like the xmas bonus will need to go.

Scary times ahead. But better to face reality now than spend another few months racking up 6 billion deficits.

acequion

manniot2 wrote: »

The unjustified fear that has been put into people is just incredible. I see it in my own parents - both are mid 60s and healthy. They are basically afraid to leave the house, wont let us visit with grand kids, wont socialise or meet their friends. My Dad was driving a taxi as a retirement gig and he has given it up now and is saying he wont work again. The irony is, they have both put on weight and are probably less healthy (physically and mentally) and active then they were 4 months ago.

This is it. It's the enormous collateral damage like the above which is starting to really worry me. Prolockdowners and scaremongerers, are so tunnel visioned they just can't or won't see the bigger picture and won't see the trouble they're causing. I'm all out of patience with them at this stage. The fact is that there are loads of people like this posters' parents and a lot younger. People terrified out of their wits and their fears only magnified by OTT restrictions, all sensationalised and exaggerated in the media.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s a load of rubbish. People like you have been terrified by the media into believing this nonsense. Not surprising when they keep giving air time to Gerry Killeen and his ilk. But you probably won’t die if you venture outside and live a little.

The curve was flattened over a month ago now. We could have lifted every restriction back then and we’d be in the same position now.

We’re the only country in Europe that still has restrictions like this. Why? Is the virus worse in Ireland than everywhere else?

A poster wanted nightclubs closed until a vaccine is found. Other posters want Xmas cancelled. It’s incredible stuff.

Our own CMO says we won’t need lockdown again. It was a panic work around until we got prepared.

We need to end this nonsense soon while there is still an economy to salvage. The Covid payment is due to end at the end of August. Banks will eventually require people to pay their loans and mortgages again.

This will hopefully help to refocus the minds.

Multipass

manniot2 wrote: »

The unjustified fear that has been put into people is just incredible. I see it in my own parents - both are mid 60s and healthy. They are basically afraid to leave the house, wont let us visit with grand kids, wont socialise or meet their friends. My Dad was driving a taxi as a retirement gig and he has given it up now and is saying he wont work again. The irony is, they have both put on weight and are probably less healthy (physically and mentally) and active then they were 4 months ago.

Same as my parents, it feels like they’ve aged a lot during the lockdown, and I’m not sure they’ll ever drive again. They look like deer caught in headlights when they go out in public now, it’s really sad.

road_high

Deleted User wrote: »

I really feel like the major turning point will come on 1st September. That is when the Covid payments will be gone. By then I also imagine banks will be demanding that people start paying back mortgages / loans. At that point landlords will have to demand rent from tenants again and evict if necessary.

This is when the narrative from media / government will start to move away from Covid and onto the recession.

The new government will likely have to introduce some very difficult measures on people in the budget. With all the extra people on social welfare, things like the xmas bonus will need to go.

Scary times ahead. But better to face reality now than spend another few months racking up 6 billion deficits.

Should never have been paid anyhow, madness. But not a prayer of it being paid this year- there will be a big hullaballoo about it to.

Very likely cuts to the basic Jobseekers payments too. If more are claiming it then there's a much smaller pot to share in. It's easier to cut than all other welfare payments too.

road_high

Multipass wrote: »

Same as my parents, it feels like they’ve aged a lot during the lockdown, and I’m not sure they’ll ever drive again. They look like deer caught in headlights when they go out in public now, it’s really sad.

I'd try get them going again. Even small baby steps. Try to get them to watch less news too if at all possible. Has older people scared whitless.

acequion

road_high wrote: »

I'd try get them going again. Even small baby steps. Try to get them to watch less news too if at all possible. Has older people scared whitless.

@Multipass, I second that. My mum is in her 80's and I've got her back driving and doing her own shopping again. With difficulty as she was scared and had become more dependent and more feeble. So I went with her driving and shopping the first few times. And she's getting her confidence back now and as she's listening to me more than the scaremongerers she's a lot less afraid and recovering her love of life. Thank heavens. And before the scaremongerers come at me here, let me reassure them that mum is abiding by all restrictions. Always the mask on when she goes out, always distancing, always sanitising the hands and even has her own sanitiser in her bag. But she's getting out there again and that's hugely important.

Jayesdiem

To those with parents here who are reluctant to be in public, are there any comparisons you can make to show them how run of the mill this virus really is? I’m sure they were alive in 1968 for the flu pandemic that year? I wasn’t myself but I’ve heard reports that not only did the world not stop, some people can’t even remember it happening, yet it killed twice as many in the UK as Covid19. I can relate to this experience. Apparently, we had a sizeable flu pandemic in 2018, and also one around the turn of the millennium, with the dome in London a potential “superspreader”. I don’t speak for everyone but I have no recollection of these events and neither should your elderly parents if the Chinese and Italian governments hadn’t sh@t their beds. The rest is history, but perhaps a dive into history might help your parents over this hurdle.

A humorous point of comparison: when I heard about the supposed millennium epidemic, it reminded me of the hysteria of the millennium bug, another example of mass panic that had planes falling out of the sky and technology exploding everywhere. It may have been machine-based but the comparisons to the current hysteria are all too familiar.

Jayesdiem

Jayesdiem wrote: »

To those with parents here who are reluctant to be in public, are there any comparisons you can make to show them how run of the mill this virus really is? I’m sure they were alive in 1968 for the flu pandemic that year? I wasn’t myself but I’ve heard reports that not only did the world not stop, some people can’t even remember it happening, yet it killed twice as many in the UK as Covid19. I can relate to this experience. Apparently, we had a sizeable flu pandemic in 2018, and also one around the turn of the millennium, with the dome in London a potential “superspreader”. I don’t speak for everyone but I have no recollection of these events and neither should your elderly parents if the Chinese and Italian governments hadn’t sh@t their beds. The rest is history, but perhaps a dive into history might help your parents over this hurdle.

A humorous point of comparison: when I heard about the supposed millennium epidemic, it reminded me of the hysteria of the millennium bug, another example of mass panic that had planes falling out of the sky and technology exploding everywhere. It may have been machine-based but the comparisons to the current hysteria are all too familiar.

The have been 4 declared flu pandemics since 1900, 1918-20, 57-58, 68-69 and 2009-10

Smegging hell

Deleted User wrote: »

The have been 4 declared flu pandemics since 1900, 1918-20, 57-58, 68-69 and 2009-10

My grandfather was hospitalised during the 57-58 flu pandemic and my father and his siblings got severe doses of it as young children at the time. My father recollects it vividly and I don't think the experience has mitigated his concerns about covid-19, rather the opposite.

plodder

Jayesdiem wrote: »

A humorous point of comparison: when I heard about the supposed millennium epidemic, it reminded me of the hysteria of the millennium bug, another example of mass panic that had planes falling out of the sky and technology exploding everywhere. It may have been machine-based but the comparisons to the current hysteria are all too familiar.

I take it you didn't work in IT back around that time, because there was an enormous investment going back several years leading up to 2000 to prevent all that from happening, and which was successful.

Icantthinkof1

I remember being pregnant in 2009 during the swine flu epidemic and can remember not feeling any fear around this.
I know Covid isn’t a flu but what causes me massive anxiety is a whole Country or essentially the whole world would not have shut down unless this was really serious
I think that’s what’s caused so much concern even in the elderly for those who have lived through previous epidemics- those epidemics didn’t cause the world to literally stop but this one has

Hurrache

plodder wrote: »

I take it you didn't work in IT back around that time, because there was an enormous investment going back several years leading up to 2000 to prevent all that from happening, and which was successful.

Yip. The poster you responding to is just throwing out the oft repeated ignorant point that nothing happened without having any sort of insight or thought of the amount of work in the years of the lead up.

It's bizarre that people think like this, but then again it's in the same school of thought that we shouldn't have had a lock down because we didn't get a massive unmanageable number of cases of Covid-19.

Eod100

See with phase 3 you can travel outside your county and anywhere in Ireland but public transport is still for essential journeys only. Do you think that will change? I'm not sure telling someone to walk or cycle works if they don't drive or have access to a car.. !

plodder

plodder wrote: »

I take it you didn't work in IT back around that time, because there was an enormous investment going back several years leading up to 2000 to prevent all that from happening, and which was successful.

No, it didn't happen so it was all hysteria. That the wisdom of this thread

Jayesdiem

Jayesdiem wrote: »

To those with parents here who are reluctant to be in public, are there any comparisons you can make to show them how run of the mill this virus really is? I’m sure they were alive in 1968 for the flu pandemic that year? I wasn’t myself but I’ve heard reports that not only did the world not stop, some people can’t even remember it happening, yet it killed twice as many in the UK as Covid19. I can relate to this experience. Apparently, we had a sizeable flu pandemic in 2018, and also one around the turn of the millennium, with the dome in London a potential “superspreader”. I don’t speak for everyone but I have no recollection of these events and neither should your elderly parents if the Chinese and Italian governments hadn’t sh@t their beds. The rest is history, but perhaps a dive into history might help your parents over this hurdle.

A humorous point of comparison: when I heard about the supposed millennium epidemic, it reminded me of the hysteria of the millennium bug, another example of mass panic that had planes falling out of the sky and technology exploding everywhere. It may have been machine-based but the comparisons to the current hysteria are all too familiar.

Interesting that you use the millennium bug as a comparison. That was a real thing that was mostly avoided with foresight, not too dissimilar to our current situation.

Ginger n Lemon

Below is what the spokeswoman is spewing out

"Changes to the Government’s roadmap to exiting lockdown will not mean “a return to life as we knew it”, a senior official has warned.

At the Government’s morning Covid-19 briefing on Monday, assistant secretary general at the Department of Taoiseach Liz Canavan said the Cabinet will meet later this week to decide whether the country can safely enter phase three which will see the vast majority of the economy reopen from June 29th.

Ms Canavan said that that while the accelerated measures announced last week are welcome “we are not there yet.”

“Everything we heard on Friday is very welcome news but it doesn’t mean that the virus has gone away. And these changes do not signal or return to life as we knew it. The issue is that this disease is highly infectious.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/accelerated-roadmap-will-not-mean-a-return-to-life-as-we-knew-it-1.4285304

Why is this individual talking about virus going away? Is the IQ really that low in our govt? Covid will develop legs and walk away?

Most worrying thing is - why such a big fear of going back to normality? :rolleyes:

PS - absolute morons. Should reintroduce tomorrow onward. 6 bloody new f cases....

Ms Canavan also said the Government is expecting to begin a phased reintroduction of the national screening service programs by the end of the summer and screening invitations will also be issued on a phased basis according to clinical prioritisation.

growleaves

There's no comparison between Y2K and lockdown. You could in theory keep a record of every computer timeclock that had been fixed so as to prevent breaking down on midnight new years 2000, mapping the process completely as a tangible phenomenon. Whereas with lockdown Andrew Cuomo thinks it might have led to more infections in NYC, the modelled predictions were grossly inaccurate, non-locked-down countries have had mixed results with some coming out very well (Japan, Taiwan). The actual results of this theoretical gamble are all over the place.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

There's no comparison between Y2K and lockdown. You could in theory keep a record of every computer timeclock that had been fixed so as to prevent breaking down on midnight new years 2000, mapping the process completely as a tangible phenomenon. Whereas with lockdown Andrew Cuomo thinks it might have led to more infections in NYC, the modelled predictions were grossly inaccurate, non-locked-down countries have had mixed results with some coming out very well (Japan, Taiwan). The actual results of this theoretical gamble are all over the place.

Once out of control, Lockdown has been the only proven method of getting the genie back in the bottle. Japan and Taiwan have experience from SARS so reacted early enough to prevent out of control spread. I dare say New Zealand would likely have achieved the same results, a bit slower perhaps, without lockdown. And continuing good track trace and isolate policies we should be able to do the same going forward without the need to go back to anything more than focused, localised, temporary lockdowns for track and trace on particular households, businesses/ workplaces, and maybe areas.

MickeyLeari

Eod100 wrote: »

See with phase 3 you can travel outside your county and anywhere in Ireland but public transport is still for essential journeys only. Do you think that will change? I'm not sure telling someone to walk or cycle works if they don't drive or have access to a car.. !

Are we in phase 3 or 4 now? I must say I am lost with all these announcements and counter announcements. Last Friday there was an address to the nation saying things will move quicker and then today we have an official telling us that is not confirmed.

road_high

Smegging hell wrote: »

My grandfather was hospitalised during the 57-58 flu pandemic and my father and his siblings got severe doses of it as young children at the time. My father recollects it vividly and I don't think the experience has mitigated his concerns about covid-19, rather the opposite.

He understandably has very difficult memories of that time- as a child your father going into hospital is deeply traumatic and scary. It likely had a big impact on him. Imagine back then, there'd be no communication and even less information on what was going on. Especially for children. Covid 19 probably brought all the trauma back to him.

road_high

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Are we in phase 3 or 4 now? I must say I am lost with all these announcements and counter announcements. Last Friday there was an address to the nation saying things will move quicker and then today we have an office telling us that is not confirmed.

We are in Phase 3 I think still? Which they brought forward if i recall correctly.

Benimar

road_high wrote: »

We are in Phase 3 I think still? Which they brought forward if i recall correctly.

We are in Phase 2. Phase 3 starts on June 29th

Jayesdiem

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting that you use the millennium bug as a comparison. That was a real thing that was mostly avoided with foresight, not too dissimilar to our current situation.

Whatever about the millennium bug which I seem to be ignorant on. Saying that we’ve had foresight on this attention must be some form of joke however.

Jayesdiem

growleaves wrote: »

There's no comparison between Y2K and lockdown. You could in theory keep a record of every computer timeclock that had been fixed so as to prevent breaking down on midnight new years 2000, mapping the process completely as a tangible phenomenon. Whereas with lockdown Andrew Cuomo thinks it might have led to more infections in NYC, the modelled predictions were grossly inaccurate, non-locked-down countries have had mixed results with some coming out very well (Japan, Taiwan). The actual results of this theoretical gamble are all over the place.

Jaysus. The comparison was related to the hysteria, not the bloody virus itself. Crikey.