How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

mehico wrote: »

In the short term TUV will gain support from DUP but will this translate into seats at the next election? Too far away to predict probably.

The newspaper post is interesting in that it shows that the dup have a sense of the anger towards them for being asleep at the wheel and allowing the Irish Sea border.
My problem with the TUV and DUP is their position on issues like equal marriage and general inability to embrace diversity. Very like SF in their detesting of everything about my culture and identity.
I would like to see the uup move more to the ground that NI21 were attempting to occupy. There is still no party there and there is a job to be done to build that ground. Pity they hadn’t spent the last 20 years doing that

I am not fearful of UI as I am confident that will not happen for generations. It’s the continued Sf agenda to green the north which is my concern.

FrancieBrady

People are angry with the DUP over supporting Brexit.

There is very little data on what the people feel about the sea border. This poll shows a majority have little issue with it.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-55-in-northern-ireland-prefer-brexit-border-in-irish-sea-39616850.html

The DUP have been accused of using the sea border to mask the anger over Brexiting in the first place.

Junkyard Tom

On the one hand...

downcow wrote: »

SF in their detesting of everything about my culture and identity.

and on the other...

It’s the continued Sf agenda to green the north which is my concern.

If your culture is all about preventing Irish people from being Irish in Ireland while living in Ireland yourself then it is you that detests our culture and identity.

This is why Unionism is in a death spiral.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

The newspaper post is interesting in that it shows that the dup have a sense of the anger towards them for being asleep at the wheel and allowing the Irish Sea border.
My problem with the TUV and DUP is their position on issues like equal marriage and general inability to embrace diversity. Very like SF in their detesting of everything about my culture and identity.
I would like to see the uup move more to the ground that NI21 were attempting to occupy. There is still no party there and there is a job to be done to build that ground. Pity they hadn’t spent the last 20 years doing that

I am not fearful of UI as I am confident that will not happen for generations. It’s the continued Sf agenda to green the north which is my concern.

If you're not fearful of a UI happening for generations, why the constant moaning about it? If everything is so rosey, why so insecure?

If I was in your position of great confidence, I'd be fully supporting SF's calls for a border poll, confident of an absolutely convincing victory that actually does take it off the table for a generation rather than telling everyone how confident I am while remaining completely unwilling to actually see what people have to say about the matter.

I say this as someone who doesn't think a border poll would go in favour of Unification tomorrow, thinks it is unlikely but possible it would pass in the event of a strong campaign in the lead up to a border poll, but with enough years left on me that I'm confident I'll be alive for the day it happens.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People are angry with the DUP over supporting Brexit.

There is very little data on what the people feel about the sea border. This poll shows a majority have little issue with it.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/poll-55-in-northern-ireland-prefer-brexit-border-in-irish-sea-39616850.html

The DUP have been accused of using the sea border to mask the anger over Brexiting in the first place.

Good to see you back Francie.

I disagree with you. I sense most annoyance was with them sleep walking into an Irish see border. People know that brexit was happening whether every yes voter in ni stayed at home. That’s the facts. The dup did not influence brexit happening. What they done was to allow the Roi government to drive a narrative of the risk of violence with a land border, unchallenged.

I can’t see the poll questions but I would be interested to see the outcome if there was a n option of sharing the border between Rosslare, Newry and Larne

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

On the one hand...



and on the other...



If your culture is all about preventing Irish people from being Irish in Ireland while living in Ireland yourself then it is you that detests our culture and identity.

This is why Unionism is in a death spiral.

That is simplistic dancing on head of pin. You know exactly what sf are doing in their greening of the north. If you don’t then I will post something later to let you see there agenda.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

If you're not fearful of a UI happening for generations, why the constant moaning about it? If everything is so rosey, why so insecure?

If I was in your position of great confidence, I'd be fully supporting SF's calls for a border poll, confident of an absolutely convincing victory that actually does take it off the table for a generation rather than telling everyone how confident I am while remaining completely unwilling to actually see what people have to say about the matter.

I say this as someone who doesn't think a border poll would go in favour of Unification tomorrow, thinks it is unlikely but possible it would pass in the event of a strong campaign in the lead up to a border poll, but with enough years left on me that I'm confident I'll be alive for the day it happens.

I was clear. My moaning is about sf agenda to green the north.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Good to see you back Francie.

I disagree with you. I sense most annoyance was with them sleep walking into an Irish see border. People know that brexit was happening whether every yes voter in ni stayed at home. That’s the facts. The dup did not influence brexit happening. What they done was to allow the Roi government to drive a narrative of the risk of violence with a land border, unchallenged.

I can’t see the poll questions but I would be interested to see the outcome if there was a n option of sharing the border between Rosslare, Newry and Larne

How did they sleep walk into it?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I was clear. My moaning is about sf agenda to green the north.

I meant in general rather than that specific post.

'Agenda to green the North' is quite a weird phrase. Do the mainstream Unionist parties have an agenda to keep the North orange by opposing them?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

What they done was to allow the Roi government to drive a narrative of the risk of violence with a land border, unchallenged.

The so-called land border is unworkable as a solution to the Tory/DUP Brexit and the people who live there shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of DUP stupidity.

I would be interested to see the outcome if there was a n option of sharing the border between Rosslare, Newry and Larne

See above. The complete arrogance of trying to get all of Ireland to pay for a mess created by the Tories/DUP. No chance that's happening without some sort of massive gesture by Britain on future Irish unification.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Happy St Patrick’s Day by the way, Downcow.

Thank you for the personal message.

Hope you have a good one and down a few pints of the old ‘Protestant Porter’

“The Guinness family were always very strong unionists and had a strong association with Dublin since Arthur Guinness started his 9000 year lease at St James Gate in 1759. The money from the Guinness family supported many buildings around Dublin, in particular, the Church of Ireland. Though the Guinness family would keep a low key profile in recent times, this wasn’t always the case. Arthur was strongly against the 1798 rebellion, so much so, that his renamed his drink ‘Protestant Porter’. The Guinness family also played a crucial role in the forming of the Orange Order in Dublin.

On the Monday the 9th April 1798 the first Grand Lodge of Ireland was established; the first meeting took place in the home of Thomas Verner on Dawson Street Dublin. After the meeting closed the brethren moved downstairs and toasted the “Glorious and Immortal Memory” with whiskey, wine and porter. The porter was a gift from Arthur Guinness, a Kildare man who 20 years earlier established a brewery at St. James Gate Dublin for the production of the dark beer known as “Guinness, black protestant Porter”.

Arthur's successors in St James's Gate were definitely steadfast in their loyalty to the British crown. His descendants donated £100,000 to the UVF arms fund in 1913.

Edward Guinness, who was in charge of PR for Guinness, was strong in his view that the IRA campaign brought into question the value of Irish branding. It seems ironic that the IRA, who proclaim to be fighting for Ireland and its people, nearly cost Ireland it’s biggest brand and export.”

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Thank you for the personal message.

Hope you have a good one and down a few pints of the old ‘Protestant Porter’

“The Guinness family were always very strong unionists and had a strong association with Dublin since Arthur Guinness started his 9000 year lease at St James Gate in 1759. The money from the Guinness family supported many buildings around Dublin, in particular, the Church of Ireland. Though the Guinness family would keep a low key profile in recent times, this wasn’t always the case. Arthur was strongly against the 1798 rebellion, so much so, that his renamed his drink ‘Protestant Porter’. The Guinness family also played a crucial role in the forming of the Orange Order in Dublin.

On the Monday the 9th April 1798 the first Grand Lodge of Ireland was established; the first meeting took place in the home of Thomas Verner on Dawson Street Dublin. After the meeting closed the brethren moved downstairs and toasted the “Glorious and Immortal Memory” with whiskey, wine and porter. The porter was a gift from Arthur Guinness, a Kildare man who 20 years earlier established a brewery at St. James Gate Dublin for the production of the dark beer known as “Guinness, black protestant Porter”.

Arthur's successors in St James's Gate were definitely steadfast in their loyalty to the British crown. His descendants donated £100,000 to the UVF arms fund in 1913.

Edward Guinness, who was in charge of PR for Guinness, was strong in his view that the IRA campaign brought into question the value of Irish branding. It seems ironic that the IRA, who proclaim to be fighting for Ireland and its people, nearly cost Ireland it’s biggest brand and export.”

I certainly will......do you think anyone doesn't know Arthur Guinness was a staunch Unionist?

I've posted about it before myself, along with the fact that the style of beer which made his fortune was known a London Porter. So what?

You'll have yourself worked up something shocking when you see where St Patrick himself was from.

Christ knows what you'll think if I have a wee drop of Black Bush this evening.

BonnieSituation

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I certainly will......do you think anyone doesn't know Arthur Guinness was a staunch Unionist?

I've posted about it before myself, along with the fact that the style of beer which made his fortune was known a London Porter. So what?

You'll have yourself worked up something shocking when you see where St Patrick himself was from.

Christ knows what you'll think if I have a wee drop of Black Bush this evening.

Jesus. Don't be doing that.

I'll try not to have any Jameson products myself later.

I'm sure someone will tell us how the poor unionists aren't being given due respect now though... Bizarre.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I certainly will......do you think anyone doesn't know Arthur Guinness was a staunch Unionist?

I've posted about it before myself, along with the fact that the style of beer which made his fortune was known a London Porter. So what?

You'll have yourself worked up something shocking when you see where St Patrick himself was from.

Christ knows what you'll think if I have a wee drop of Black Bush this evening.

I didn’t know. I just received that on what’s app and passed it on. You know you prods better than me.

Oh I know fine well that at Patrick was part of the Irish slave trade, which few want to mention.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t know. I just received that on what’s app and passed it on. You know you prods better than me.

Oh I know fine well that at Patrick was part of the Irish slave trade, which few want to mention.

Few want to mention? It is taught to every primary school child in Ireland, apart from perhaps those who try and avoid discussing anything to do with the history of the island they were born on.

Amazing that you can attempt to be snide about something the Irish did fifteen hundred years ago, but then attempt to justify the injustices of NI with, 'it was a different time'....

downcow

I just caught national news headlines there. Did I hear correctly that Eu are going to prevent exportation of vaccines? And that they would use every tool to prevent them?
Oh I so hope Boris has the balls to bring them in through NI.
Will the Eu prevent exports to NI? and how? Article 16? I don’t think there is any other way.
What was that Churchill said about Ulster rising to the call in the time of need. lol

Junkyard Tom

Arthur was a Prod, (you thick Paddies didn't know that did ye!).
St Patrick was a slave, (ha! gotcha dumbos!)
EU will try to prevent tens of millions of vaccines leaving Europe? Boris will smash Brussels.

He's in really angry form today, because it's St Patrick's Day?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I just caught national news headlines there. Did I hear correctly that Eu are going to prevent exportation of vaccines? And that they would use every tool to prevent them?
Oh I so hope Boris has the balls to bring them in through NI.
Will the Eu prevent exports to NI? and how? Article 16? I don’t think there is any other way.
What was that Churchill said about Ulster rising to the call in the time of need. lol

Every time something looks like it might even possibly happen, we can trust you to come along flag waving and claiming victory.....only to hastily change the subject when absolutely nothing comes from it once again.

As with every other time you've proclaimed your Three Lions with come forth roaring for God and Ulster, I won't hold my breath.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Arthur was a Prod, (you thick Paddies didn't know that did ye!).
St Patrick was a slave, (ha! gotcha dumbos!)
EU will try to prevent tens of millions of vaccines leaving Europe? Boris will smash Brussels.

He's in really angry form today, because it's St Patrick's Day?

Calm yourself Tom.
Nothing like quoting exactly the opposite of what I said.

I said I didn’t know Arthur was a unionist or a prod.
I asked if it was correct that Eu had announced that they will use all tools available to them to stop vaccines exporting ie entering UK That’s very interesting if they are considering stopping vaccines entering ni. I hope they try.

I am certainly not angry today. Actually I’m chilled out. Lovely weather, had the afternoon off. Yeah things are ok today.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Every time something looks like it might even possibly happen, we can trust you to come along flag waving and claiming victory.....only to hastily change the subject when absolutely nothing comes from it once again.

As with every other time you've proclaimed your Three Lions with come forth roaring for God and Ulster, I won't hold my breath.

Folks. I was asking you guys about it. Why are you so sensitive? I have no idea if the news is hyping it. May never happen. I was very surprised by what the Eu are saying.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Folks. I was asking you guys about it. Why are you so sensitive? I have no idea if the news is hyping it. May never happen. I was very surprised by what the Eu are saying.

You mentioned a news report, made some suppositions and then peppered it with the following;

"Oh I so hope Boris has the balls to bring them in through NI."

"What was that Churchill said about Ulster rising to the call in the time of need."

Maybe you were asking, maybe you were trying to deflect from being informed that your, 'few want to mention' comment on St Patrick is actually taught to literally every primary school child from no age at all. Perhaps due to embarrassment at this being relatively new information to you due to your educational blind spot, perhaps because of the hypocrisy pointed out therein.

Either way, it doesn't seem very much like, 'just asking you guys about it', seems much more like you're tearing the aul Rule Britannia sweets clean off yourself prematurely again.

I just don't know you have the stamina to be disappointed again.....and again.....and again, yet still come back with your chest puffed out, proclaiming that THIS time, the Three Lions will roar in the defense of Glorious Ulster (cadged with a, 'might' to weasel out of it when it inevitably doesn't happen again).....never losing any enthusiasm no matter how many times you're left disappointed.

Christ, the Boy who Cried Wolf would be the octogenarian who cried wolf before anyone thought to show a modicum of disbelief in your world (so long as he was British).

ulster

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/shared-island-unionist-5381747-Mar2021/

Some interesting reading there.

jmlad2020

Even Arlene is wearing Green today. Not long now lads.

Junkyard Tom

ulster wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/shared-island-unionist-5381747-Mar2021/

Some interesting reading there.

The thing is we have a 17% population who weren't born here who are happy to be here. Unionists seem to have developed a transactional relationship with citizenship as in 'what can you do for us?'.

They forget that when there is a pro-UI vote they will be a minority in the north who did not want the outcome so suddenly demanding to tear down the house and have it rebuilt simply won't wash. We will not be recreating their vetos and privileges in a United Ireland, plain old equality will have to do them

downcow

ulster wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/shared-island-unionist-5381747-Mar2021/

Some interesting reading there.

Very interesting reading and interesting responses

king_gizzard

Fionn1952 wrote: »

you're tearing the aul Rule Britannia sweets clean off yourself prematurely again.

Haha. Absolute gold.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

Folks. I was asking you guys about it. Why are you so sensitive? I have no idea if the news is hyping it. May never happen. I was very surprised by what the Eu are saying.

The reaction of our resident disgruntled republicans to any criticism of brussels is puzzling,you'd think they are involved in making the decisions instead of just doing as they're told.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

The reaction of our resident disgruntled republicans to any criticism of brussels is puzzling,you'd think they are involved in making the decisions instead of just doing as they're told.

Rob, you used to seem like quite a reasonable contributor but now it's as if you're just resorting to drive-by Daily Mail-derived slurs.

Fionn1952

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Rob, you used to seem like quite a reasonable contributor but now it's as if you're just resorting to drive-by Daily Mail-derived slurs.

His feelings got hurt when he got banned from all those other threads, poor guy.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Rob, you used to seem like quite a reasonable contributor but now it's as if you're just resorting to drive-by Daily Mail-derived slurs.

Constantly gloating when brussels pulls another arrogant stunt,usually in an attempt to cover for their own ineptitude is nothing to be proud of Tom.They're just using Ireland as a pawn but you can't see it.