Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

RobbieMD

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm honestly not sure if the limit you mention applies to cyclists. The bye-law linked to by others refer to vehicles, so that's obviously nothing to do with cyclists

Generally “vehicle” when used in the legal sense refers to all vehicles, which would include a pedal cycle. Certain offences i.e. speeding, drunken driving, drunk in charge, etc are not defined using “vehicle” but rather “mechanically propelled vehicle”.

For speeding the offence wording starts as follows-

A person shall not drive a mechanically propelled vehicle at a speed exceeding the speed limit —

Bye Law interpretations generally follow with statute interpretations and I would assume that is the case here also, and that any posted speed limit in a park can only refer to a mechanically propelled vehicle.

TaurenDruid

RobbieMD wrote: »

Generally “vehicle” when used in the legal sense refers to all vehicles, which would include a pedal cycle. Certain offences i.e. speeding, drunken driving, drunk in charge, etc are not defined using “vehicle” but rather “mechanically propelled vehicle”.

It's very clear it applies to bikes, and the big circled "10kmh" next to every stencil of a bike, on the cycle lane, is kind of a giveaway.

Nice of Andy to grant that cycling at speed in a park is not the best thing to do, I honestly wasn't expecting that!

RobbieMD

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It's very clear it applies to bikes, and the big circled "10kmh" next to every stencil of a bike, on the cycle lane, is kind of a giveaway.

Nice of Andy to grant that cycling at speed in a park is not the best thing to do, I honestly wasn't expecting that!

And yet it carries the same legal weight of a 5 kmph speed limit in my local shopping centre car park.

AndrewJRenko

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It's very clear it applies to bikes, and the big circled "10kmh" next to every stencil of a bike, on the cycle lane, is kind of a giveaway.

Do parks have cycle lanes?

TaurenDruid

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do parks have cycle lanes?

:rolleyes: Pedantry, meet Andy. Andy, pedantry. Oh, you already know each other?

TaurenDruid

RobbieMD wrote: »

And yet it carries the same legal weight of a 5 kmph speed limit in my local shopping centre car park.

Does it? IANAL. There are Dublin City Council bye-laws. I assume they're able to enforce them and there are penalties for not doing so.

magicbastarder

i can't believe i'm engaging in this trivial sideshow about parks, but the speed limit is 10km/h and the maximum penalty for violating a bye-law in a public park is €1,200.
for people having such an extended argument about it, you sure are slow about educating yourself on what you're arguing about. this took about 60s to find.

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/Documents/ParksBye-Laws2D.pdf

AndrewJRenko

TaurenDruid wrote: »

:rolleyes: Pedantry, meet Andy. Andy, pedantry. Oh, you already know each other?

It's all just a bit confusing to be honest. I don't think parks have cycle lanes. Therefore I'm not sure that speed limit signs would be intended for cyclists in the first place?

In the DLR parks, they generally have 'no cycling' rules, so I'm struggling to see where these speed limits fit.

Pinch Flat

Sorry haven't checked in the thread to a while. See we've moved onto speed limits for cyclists in DCC parks. Is there a link to this by law?

RobbieMD

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Does it? IANAL. There are Dublin City Council bye-laws. I assume they're able to enforce them and there are penalties for not doing so.

But the offence for speeding can only be committed by mechanically propelled vehicles. You or I won’t find any cases of someone prosecuted for this offence when in a Dublin City Park.

magicbastarder

check out 4.6(g) in the pdf i linked a few posts above - that seems to apply to all vehicles.

Duckjob

magicbastarder wrote: »

check out 4.6(g) in the pdf i linked a few posts above - that seems to apply to all vehicles.

Hard to see though how it could be applied in court of law, given that there would likely be no evidence other than the opinion of a park official that someone was travelling in excess of the speed limit.

07Lapierre

Another "Perfectly Fine/Safe" bike lane!

https://twitter.com/pward82/status/1278673471439081474?s=20

meeeeh

What's the obsession with court of law? What about just doing the decent thing. I have no issues with cyclists in the park but does it really have to be enforced in the court of law to not be ignorant and slow down in places where there are a lot of people especially kids. The same attitude is around littering or a lot of other activities that require a bit of personal responsibility and not being a complete selfish prick.

Edit: I was replying to Duckjob

Duckjob

meeeeh wrote: »

What's the obsession with court of law? What about just doing the decent thing. I have no issues with cyclists in the park but does it really have to be enforced in the court of law to not be ignorant and slow down in places where there are a lot of people especially kids. The same attitude is around littering or a lot of other activities that require a bit of personal responsibility and not being a complete selfish prick.

Edit: I was replying to Duckjob

I would have thought my expression was clear enough, but maybe not. So-

I wasn't saying I thought it was OK to speed though parks. Personally I find it ignorant when people do so when other people are around. I was simply pointing out that the law as it stands is probably legally useless and as such simply relies on peoples sense of decency (which is often lacking) to conduct themselves properly.

TaurenDruid

magicbastarder wrote: »

i can't believe i'm engaging in this trivial sideshow about parks, but the speed limit is 10km/h and the maximum penalty for violating a bye-law in a public park is €1,200.
for people having such an extended argument about it, you sure are slow about educating yourself on what you're arguing about. this took about 60s to find.

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/Documents/ParksBye-Laws2D.pdf

Yeah, I found it the other day when someone doubted the existence of speed limits. Someone else linked it then, too.

TaurenDruid

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's all just a bit confusing to be honest. I don't think parks have cycle lanes. Therefore I'm not sure that speed limit signs would be intended for cyclists in the first place?

In the DLR parks, they generally have 'no cycling' rules, so I'm struggling to see where these speed limits fit.

Some DCC parks (not all) have paths divided down the middle by a white line, one half for pedestrians, one half for cyclists.

The speed limit signs are intended for cyclists.

Hurrache

Just the 2 hit and runs during this evening's rush hour, that we know of.

https://twitter.com/unapower/status/1278737530624630786?s=19

https://twitter.com/Aidan_Regan/status/1278745163133865991?s=19

micar

Driving back from a run with the dogs and going downhill here

Rathmullan Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XroHKKZ1BtyR39me6

A cyclists is going uphill and as I am approaching 3 cars overtake him. I end up having to go on the brakes and move to the left as the cars are encroaching on my side of the road....cyclist basically says "fu€k this sh1t" and hops onto footpath where it drops down at a driveway.

AndrewJRenko

Here's today's exceedingly rare event. He waited for an entire cycle of the pedestrian lights, at least 20 seconds if not 30 seconds - and then blew through the red light

https://streamable.com/p19vmo

It's amazing how rare these late RLJs are.

Casey78

This thread is

meeeeh

A quick question. Do people actually watch linked videos? EspeciallyTwitter links. If I wanted to follow tweets I would on Twitter. (I might be weird I even find 'funny' WhatsApp videos tedious. At some stage it's just video pollution.)

07Lapierre

07Lapierre wrote: »

Another "Perfectly Fine/Safe" bike lane!

https://twitter.com/pward82/status/1278673471439081474?s=20

I must have missed something, what's the issue here?

AndrewJRenko

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I must have missed something, what's the issue here?

Did you not notice all the cars parked on the bike lane? Maybe they should have had hi-vis stripes?

Casey78

meeeeh wrote: »

A quick question. Do people actually watch linked videos? EspeciallyTwitter links. If I wanted to follow tweets I would on Twitter. (I might be weird I even find 'funny' WhatsApp videos tedious. At some stage it's just video pollution.)

On this thread,nope very rarely look at any of the video links.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did you not notice all the cars parked on the bike lane? Maybe they should have had hi-vis stripes?

Are we watching the same clip? He didn't encounter a single parked car. Encountered a dozen entrances but that's normal.

Hurrache

meeeeh wrote: »

A quick question. Do people actually watch linked videos? EspeciallyTwitter links. If I wanted to follow tweets I would on Twitter. (I might be weird I even find 'funny' WhatsApp videos tedious. At some stage it's just video pollution.)

No, we just guess what's in them and seem to get it right every time.

Our talents are wasted, maybe it's more constructive if we get together and try win the lotto instead.

07Lapierre

07Lapierre wrote: »

Santry to Dublin Airport.
Glasnevin to Finglas

Both of these routes have to be the most pathetic attempts at cycle lane design ever! Both are a total waste of time and money.
Bad cycle lane infrastructure is worse than no cycle lane infrastructure ... because people who know feck all about commuting by bike can’t understand why cyclists do t use these lanes!

There's a very nice Lane going up the side of the airport from old airport road to the first entrance to the airport. The lane between that and the main entrance is not perfect but I cycle it every day without issue.

They lane between the airport and the cloghran roundabout is a joke in fairness and yes, the santry area is a disgrace.

meeeeh

Casey78 wrote: »

On this thread,nope very rarely look at any of the video links.

I think sooner or later someone tells us what's in them anyway. In fairness I don't watch what Gemma O'Doherty and her friends are producing either. They seem to be equally dedicated.

Casey78

meeeeh wrote: »

I think sooner or later someone tells us what's in them anyway. In fairness I don't watch what Gemma O'Doherty and her friends are producing either. They seem to be equally dedicated.

And as easily triggered.....