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Amazon discriminating Irish customers?

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    #182
    GinSoaked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭GinSoaked


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Interesting theory put forward in a similar post in the courier/Online buying forum: Are An Post requesting Amazon to slow down the dispatch into Ireland? otherwise they would be completely swamped.
    If you think about it, Amazon would probably be going mad at AN Post, but there isn't really an alternative. All the other couriers are also past capacity, so they wouldn't have an option.

    And if you think about it that would be a perfectly reasonable reason that Amazon could tell their Prime customers about through their online chat but they aren't.

    Amazon stuff from the market place coming by courier isn't any slower than usual neither is stuff from ebay sellers in the UK so I really don't buy this An Post or any couriers being swamped, busy and over worked maybe but no reason for stock to sit in an Amazon warehouse for a week.


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    #183
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    GinSoaked wrote: »
    There seems to be no logic to leaving stock for Irish customers sat in the warehouse for and extra 7 days?

    But they aren't doing that, the orders don't get processed for that period, it's not that they're getting picked and packaged and left there.

    So what's happening is that people are finding that by the time their order is processed, the item may be out of stock.


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    #184
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Interesting theory put forward in a similar post in the courier/Online buying forum: Are An Post requesting Amazon to slow down the dispatch into Ireland? otherwise they would be completely swamped.
    If you think about it, Amazon would probably be going mad at AN Post, but there isn't really an alternative. All the other couriers are also past capacity, so they wouldn't have an option.

    Amazon would be urgently spinning up Amazon Logistics here if that was the case. They aren't.

    That the delay is semi fixed means they're currently delivering a days orders every day perfectly well too. Three weekends of full delivery would clear the backlog entirely if they were the delay source; and Amazon are a major customer, one that you would go out of the way to mollify.


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    #185
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭OU812


    I have prime. Did a big order on Monday night/Tuesday morning, some items are resellers, mostly amazon. First reseller item arrived this morning, Another due Monday, Amazon is yet to dispatch. Think I'll be cancelling my prime


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    #186
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Interesting theory put forward in a similar post in the courier/Online buying forum: Are An Post requesting Amazon to slow down the dispatch into Ireland? otherwise they would be completely swamped.
    If you think about it, Amazon would probably be going mad at AN Post, but there isn't really an alternative. All the other couriers are also past capacity, so they wouldn't have an option.

    That theory holds no water as all they'd be doing is kicking the can down the road, and as that can has now been kicked there is currently zero difference for anpost whether the stuff is coming from amazon next day or 7 days later - they'd still be getting the exact same volume of items to sort.


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    #187
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    L1011 wrote: »
    Amazon would be urgently spinning up Amazon Logistics here if that was the case. They aren't.

    That the delay is semi fixed means they're currently delivering a days orders every day perfectly well too. Three weekends of full delivery would clear the backlog entirely if they were the delay source; and Amazon are a major customer, one that you would go out of the way to mollify.

    There is no way they would be able to put a delivery system in place that quickly. Until they are ready they need someone with the network already in place. It makes sense to strangle the orders to keep it just manageable for An Post.
    An Post have gone from the original next day delivery text to 2 days, and they are now at 3 days. They do tend to get it here on day 2, but you can see the leeway they are giving themselves.

    I don't think Amazon would hang out their delivery partner to dry either, I think the line they are taking is the lesser of 2 evils.


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    #188
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    pleasant Co. wrote: »
    That theory holds no water as all they'd be doing is kicking the can down the road, and as that can has now been kicked there is currently zero difference for anpost whether the stuff is coming from amazon next day or 7 days later - they'd still be getting the exact same volume of items to sort.

    Kicking the can do the road is what companies like An Post normally do best. Look at their policy with the goods from outside the EU.
    However, If they need breathing space of 8 days, and Amazon tell people 10 it gives them a couple of days all the time to readjust. If Amazon just piled 5 or 6 artics a day every day into Dublin it would just grind to a halt. I would see this as far more likely if they had the usual 2/3 day service into Ireland.

    I worked for years in the transport business and this would definitely be the way to approach it. Anyway, just a theory, as I said. It's the only one that makes sense to me so far.


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    #189
    GinSoaked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭GinSoaked


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Kicking the can do the road is what companies like An Post normally do best. Look at their policy with the goods from outside the EU.
    However, If they need breathing space of 8 days, and Amazon tell people 10 it gives them a couple of days all the time to readjust. If Amazon just piled 5 or 6 artics a day every day into Dublin it would just grind to a halt. I would see this as far more likely if they had the usual 2/3 day service into Ireland.

    I worked for years in the transport business and this would definitely be the way to approach it. Anyway, just a theory, as I said. It's the only one that makes sense to me so far.

    But that only gives An Post breathing space for 8 days then all the stuff thats been sitting for 8 days hits them at exactly the same rate as before.


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    #190
    jonnny68
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Buy as little as you can from Amazon. Give your business to other companies.

    why?im using Amazon 15 years and i can count on one hand the amount of issues ive had and even when i did they were sorted out very quickly, in short ive never had any real issues with Amazon, it's a great website.


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    #191
    Mav11
    Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭Mav11


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    why?im using Amazon 15 years and i can count on one hand the amount of issues ive had and even when i did they were sorted out very quickly, in short ive never had any real issues with Amazon, it's a great website.

    Completely agree with that, using them almost 20 years myself. Plus when others ran for the hills they were one of the few to supply needed items at reasonable prices.

    Plus plus, you also get Prime video for your membership, which I think is great value.


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    #192
    TimHorton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Mav11 wrote: »
    Completely agree with that, using them almost 20 years myself. Plus when others ran for the hills they were one of the few to supply needed items at reasonable prices.

    Plus plus, you also get Prime video for your membership, which I think is great value.

    Customer since 1998, 198 Orders via Prime last year , Very Happy Customer but the last couple of months delays have been a pain.


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    #193
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    whiterebel wrote: »
    If Amazon just piled 5 or 6 artics a day every day into Dublin it would just grind to a halt.

    I believe the Amazon volume is already far in excess of 5 or 6 artics a day...

    As goes swapping to Logistics; they have already been doing this is entire areas of England. Rent a yard, get a container transporter in and hire every unemployed van driver in the area. Lot easier than a full delivery firm to spin up when you only have one customer.


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    #194
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    GinSoaked wrote: »
    But that only gives An Post breathing space for 8 days then all the stuff thats been sitting for 8 days hits them at exactly the same rate as before.

    There is a gap that I'm putting in between the 8 days for An Post and 10 day that Amazon tell their customer. Its hard to explain, I know from staggering huge amounts of trailer movements before, that it works. You constantly have a (theoretical) 2 days to keep rejigging and reorganising staff, warehouse space, vehicles etc. It will catch up in the end, but that's the joy of kicking the can down the road. You can start narrowing the time delays when things start to slacken off and there is more capacity

    Probably 80-90% of their customers will accept the "prioritising" story, without finding out the differences to the UK. That is business that they probably won't lose when this is over.


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    #195
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    donnyvegas wrote: »
    I will shop local if possible and safe to do so. Places like Boots (not technically local but employing people locally) charge to get delivery to store (!!!!) and only allow 4 people in at a time.

    Amazon employs 2,500 people in Ireland.

    Boots employs 2,000 people in Ireland.


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    #196
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    L1011 wrote: »
    I believe the Amazon volume is already far in excess of 5 or 6 artics a day...

    As goes swapping to Logistics; they have already been doing this is entire areas of England. Rent a yard, get a container transporter in and hire every unemployed van driver in the area. Lot easier than a full delivery firm to spin up when you only have one customer.

    I was talking about an extra 5/6, I don't know what the actual figures would be. I've seen a very good courier company have difficulties with one 45' trailer of tiny deliveries from a Black Friday sale from one company, who aren't notorious for bargains.

    For the last 2 years drivers in Ireland have been much in demand. If there are a lot sitting around not working, it would suggest that they aren't very good. Stobart thought they were going to come in and clean up the Irish market, but that didn't work out, so UK examples don't work here all the time. Amazon's choice of couriers at times is bad anyway, Hermes and iParcel being good (bad) examples. In Amazon's favour for Logistics, they know exactly how many deliveries, how big and to where over the last number of years, there is no guesswork. To get the drivers, though, they would have to pay good money, and I don't see that happening.


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    #197
    corsav6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    Went looking for a carburetor for a small quad the other day on Amazon. Spotted the correct type for £20 but can't be delivered to Ireland. Spotted the exact same carburetor for £45 with delivery to Ireland.

    I find that a lot on Amazon. Product can't be shipped to Ireland for some unknown reason but exact same product with a higher price tag can be.


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    #198
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    GinSoaked wrote: »
    But that only gives An Post breathing space for 8 days then all the stuff thats been sitting for 8 days hits them at exactly the same rate as before.

    Exactly this, so those 8 days of breathing space have long, long expired.

    whiterebel wrote: »
    I worked for years in the transport business and this would definitely be the way to approach it. Anyway, just a theory, as I said. It's the only one that makes sense to me so far.

    That may be the approach to solve a short term issue, but for a known and expected long term disruption it is entirely ineffective - it would have bought 1 week of breathing room and then all those deliveries landed and continued daily.


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    #199
    Mav11
    Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭Mav11


    corsav6 wrote: »
    Went looking for a carburetor for a small quad the other day on Amazon. Spotted the correct type for £20 but can't be delivered to Ireland. Spotted the exact same carburetor for £45 with delivery to Ireland.

    I find that a lot on Amazon. Product can't be shipped to Ireland for some unknown reason but exact same product with a higher price tag can be.

    Use Parcel Motel or Address Pal.


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    #200
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    pleasant Co. wrote: »
    Exactly this, so those 8 days of breathing space have long, long expired.




    That may be the approach to solve a short term issue, but for a known and expected long term disruption it is entirely ineffective - it would have bought 1 week of breathing room and then all those deliveries landed and continued daily.

    It's not one week, it's rolling, the same as Amazon are rolling 10 days every day. They can't put in a long term solution, due to the lack of capacity in the market. An Post can't magic up hundreds of extra workers and warehouses, and nobody else such as DPD, Nightline etc can do it.


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    #201
    VG31
    Registered Users Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭VG31


    richardw001 wrote: »
    As an example In the past month - order from Amazon.de - I can see the dispatch time was 2 days.

    The delivery times to Ireland are exactly the same for me on Amazon.de. It seems to be an Amazon thing not just an Amazon.co.uk thing.
    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Then again, it might just be a royal ef-up, or even a strategy to try and discourage Irish customers from ordering via Amazon.co.uk in preparation for Brexit, but usually the easiest scenario turns out to be the correct one.

    That doesn't make sense considering Amazon.de has the same dispatch delays to Ireland.


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    #202
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    whiterebel wrote: »
    It's not one week, it's rolling, the same as Amazon are rolling 10 days every day. They can't put in a long term solution, due to the lack of capacity in the market. An Post can't magic up hundreds of extra workers and warehouses, and nobody else such as DPD, Nightline etc can do it.

    That it's rolling makes it even less likely its anything done to reduce load on An Post as it shows they are delivering the daily load daily without issue.

    Think which of these scenarios is realistically more likely:

    1: Postal service who are coping fine, actually, with the demand changes (heavily helped by being able to switch an old depot back on) ask/tell a major customer to delay a large volume of products by a fixed amount, giving them no real advantage; but putting the entire contract at major risk in to the future

    2: Large firm that has never really cared about Ireland as a sales destination (no Euro pricing, delaying Prime for years, not offering many services) doesn't want to pay for more than their contracted capacity to get stuff in to Ireland. Its Amazon who get the product to An Post.


    If 1: was the case they would be doing weekend deliveries to clear the backlog. They are only doing the basic Saturday morning service they've done for years.


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    #203
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    I certainly wouldn't agree that An Post are handling the load without issue. Seeing first postal deliveries in the afternoon after some years of early morning deliveries, postal workers using their own cars, and hire vans. Telling me the they are flat out all day every day. It seems to be the experience for a lot of people looking at the An Post delays threads in the other forum. I had an import from the US recently and it took 5 days for the customs letter from Dublin to me. Do an Post not practice rolling delays already with the post from China? They give themselves up to 4 weeks to deliver parcels from outside the EU. I know cheap postage is the cause there.

    Anyway, I've got to do some proper work, so I'll leave this for a while.


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    #204
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    whiterebel wrote: »
    It's not one week, it's rolling, the same as Amazon are rolling 10 days every day. They can't put in a long term solution, due to the lack of capacity in the market. An Post can't magic up hundreds of extra workers and warehouses, and nobody else such as DPD, Nightline etc can do it.

    My apologies if I hadn't made it clear enough, I took that that 1 week breathing room theory being rolling was a given - otherwise we'd be back to the regular dispatch rota - as this has been going on for months now.

    I'm quite unsure how, from reading your very own posts, you believe that 'breathing room' could have been a viable theory - or the only one that makes sense - as just about every new post you make seems to point to it being incredibly unlikely to be what's happened/happening.

    Anyway, like you, I've work to do. Later.


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    #205
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    An Post delay Chinese post cause it doesn't pay.

    Amazon pay enough to get the superior service - Saturday deliveries etc.


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    #206
    richardw001
    Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭richardw001


    VG31 wrote: »
    The delivery times to Ireland are exactly the same for me on Amazon.de. It seems to be an Amazon thing not just an Amazon.co.uk thing.



    That doesn't make sense considering Amazon.de has the same dispatch delays to Ireland.

    Amazon.de do not have the same dispatch delays as Amazon.co.uk in my experience:

    Heres a concrete example:

    Item A:

    I ordered this not Prime(and its huge!) https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00EAMEF78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Ordered on 16 May 2020

    It was shipped 2 days later (took a while to get here but thats a separate thing)

    Monday, 18 May
    1:51 PM
    Parcel left the carrier facility
    Rüdersdorf, DE

    Item B

    I ordered something with Prime from Amazon.co.uk On the 19th of May

    It shipped on the 29th of May (10 days later), Was delivered on the 2nd of June

    If I look at that same Item B Amazon.co.uk Prime item with a UK address - it will be delivered by Saturday. Before with Prime things used to ship out within a day sometimes to Irish addresses now it never happens.

    I'm not going to theorise here on why this is happening - however what I see is An Post and all the courier companies working harder and harder - whether its with Amazon orders or other things - and then we have Amazon.co.uk who don't even dispatch to us for 10 days. Whether its something that people would deem essential or otherwise.


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    #207
    VG31
    Registered Users Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭VG31


    richardw001 wrote: »
    Amazon.de do not have the same dispatch delays as Amazon.co.uk in my experience:

    Heres a concrete example:

    Item A:

    I ordered this not Prime(and its huge!) https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00EAMEF78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Ordered on 16 May 2020

    It was shipped 2 days later (took a while to get here but thats a separate thing)

    Monday, 18 May
    1:51 PM
    Parcel left the carrier facility
    Rüdersdorf, DE

    That's not sold or fulfilled by Amazon though. Private sellers on Amazon UK don't tend to have dispatch delays either.


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    #208
    richardw001
    Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭richardw001


    VG31 wrote: »
    That's not sold or fulfilled by Amazon though. Private sellers on Amazon UK don't tend to have dispatch delays either.

    Fair point - I'll check some of the other orders I made


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    #209
    Flickerfusion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 242 ✭✭Flickerfusion


    I’ve done a fair bit of shopping from retailers other than amazon and I haven’t had any issues with An Post. Once things hit one of their parcel hubs in tracking, they deliver the next business day.

    Items on Amazon have gone into limbo after the label has been generated but before they hit any An Post depot.

    I’ve found the same with a few recent Amazon items that have gone via other couriers and one where they generated a label in March and it just never shipped. They eventually refunded it, but then managed to process it as a return rather than a refund, so I keep getting alerts that I haven’t returned an item that they never sent.

    I think the issue is at Amazon, not the post office or couriers.

    On Chinese incoming small packages topic:

    Incoming small packet mail from China Post is an issue globally because of how it is being billed.

    The international setup is ridiculous. Effectively the national postal services were carrying it at no charge once it arrives into their systems and because the volumes of mail are hugely asymmetric, they were making no money out of it. That’s why the delays are happening. It’s just not being prioritised.

    https://www.cargoforwarder.eu/2019/10/20/upu-decision-means-china-s-postal-fees-to-triple-through-2025/

    The USPS had a big argument over it.


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    #210
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    I ordered from Amazon yesterday. Ihave Prime.

    23rd June was the delivery date to my home address. Next day delivery to Parcel Motel in the North.


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    #211
    TimHorton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Wheety wrote: »
    I ordered from Amazon yesterday. Ihave Prime.

    23rd June was the delivery date to my home address. Next day delivery to Parcel Motel in the North.

    Same here , 12 day lead time , Only plausible reason is AnPost are taking 8 to 10 days to pick up Irish Shipments , It been getting gradually worse since Covid started.


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