Need some advice on my son

Mark Hamill

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the OP is long gone off this thread. I don't blame him. He got a lot of abuse

Criticism =/= abuse.
Criticism is exactly what the Op asked for.
Abuse is something that offending posters would have been reported and moderated for. I don't remember posters getting carded or banned, do you?

Mark Hamill

Homelander wrote: »

Jesus, he's 14, not 4, and a few hours work is certainly no harm. He's not being asked to go coal-mining 40 hours a week, some people really need to get a grip.

I'm in my 30's and almost all of my friends started working at 14/15. Most of us had to be "forced" but once we started earning our own money and understood what "working" was all about, you'd never go back.

One or two would've even been 13/14, with parents who ran their own business.

A lot of the posters criticising the OP aren't against the idea of the kid working (lockdown aside, 14 isn't that young for 2 days work). The issue is how the parent went about it (and the amount offered).

Homelander wrote: »

If you left it entirely up to the kid he'd probably be sitting at home in a dark room playing the Xbox until he was 20. The vast majority of kids need that first push and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that.

OP said that his son does well in school and is active in soccer and GAA. There is no evidence that this kid is unmotivated in general.

Homelander wrote: »

People arguing therapeutic approaches that "convince the teenager it was his idea" - eh, sorry, just no. How about "You're getting a job and that's that".

Because heaven forbid we treat teenagers like adults and discuss things with them. Treat them like infants, that's the way to make them mature!

beauf

Mark Hamill wrote: »

And then someone got more information and made a more informed argument....

No one needs need information from years ago to answer the OP question.

beauf

Mark Hamill wrote: »

...Because heaven forbid we treat teenagers like adults and discuss things with them. Treat them like infants, that's the way to make them mature!

You can't treat them like adults. Because they aren't adults. Which why they make stupid choices. Teenage brain isn't fully developed, which is why they often make poor risk decisions amongst other things. But you can't treat them like children either. Because they aren't children anymore.

Treppen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the OP is long gone off this thread. I don't blame him. He got a lot of abuse

Case in point, the post straight after yours

Homelander wrote: »

Jesus, he's 14, not 4, and a few hours work is certainly no harm. He's not being asked to go coal-mining 40 hours a week, some people really need to get a grip.

I'm in my 30's and almost all of my friends started working at 14/15.... [Cut].

Treppen

Mark Hamill wrote: »

And then someone got more information and made a more informed argument.


I was mixing you up with sweetmaggie.
I do agree that personal attacks are unnecessary. I don't believe looking at the OPs posting history was wrong (sweetmaggie's assertion).

When I used to be a mod it was generally considered a dick move, it creates bad feeling and generally scares off the op, not sure why it's allowed here.
Also it doesn't really help the OP to start bringing in other personal stuff they never mentioned in their op.

Then again it's not in their charter so I suppose there no rules broken.

Lefty Bicek

spurious wrote: »

Because that was a tremendous success.

Yet many of us love, respect, and cherish our parents decades on.

We experienced it, and we can see the ways in which it has stood to us.

Because we also see that we have better sense now than we had at fourteen. Something that not all of you can say for yourselves.

Mark Hamill

beauf wrote: »

No one needs need information from years ago to answer the OP question.

The OP was pretty reticent with details at first, and it's a thread about a disagreement between the OP and his son, so looking at other posts to see if they give an idea of what type of person and parent he is is perfectly reasonable to me.

beauf wrote: »

You can't treat them like adults. Because they aren't adults. Which why they make stupid choices. Teenage brain isn't fully developed, which is why they often make poor risk decisions amongst other things. But you can't treat them like children either. Because they aren't children anymore.

Yes, teenagers are poor at making decisions, which is why you need to teach them to become adults by allowing them to make (safe) adult choices.
The OP wants his son to definitely get a job and doesn't want to go back on that, that's fine. But the OP could have discussed this with his son, informed him of his son's burgeoning responsibility to financially support himself (at least his leisure activities) and pointed out the benefit of having his own money. He could have given his son options on the nature of the job, which days worked, allowed his son to negotiate his wages etc.

Not giving his son any choices in the matter and yet expecting him to develop into a mature adult capable of making mature adult choices would be like expecting his son pass his Junior Cert without attending classes or doing any study.

Mark Hamill

Treppen wrote: »

Case in point, the post straight after yours

Am I missing something? What part of Homelander's post is abusive to anyone, leats of all the OP (who he is agreeing with).

Treppen wrote: »

When I used to be a mod it was generally considered a dick move, it creates bad feeling and generally scares off the op, not sure why it's allowed here.
Also it doesn't really help the OP to start bringing in other personal stuff they never mentioned in their op.

Then again it's not in their charter so I suppose there no rules broken.

If expecting people to have honest and consistent positions across different threads scares off posters then maybe those posters shouldn't be here? This isn't Facebook, it's not supposed to be an echo chamber, it's a discussion forum and sometimes people disagree with posters and those posters should be mature enough to deal with the "bad feelings" they might get from being disagreed with.
If something else an OP posted is relevant to what they are posting here, then reminding them will help if they are mature enough to accept they might be wrong.

Mark Hamill

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Yet many of us love, respect, and cherish our parents decades on.

We experienced it, and we can see the ways in which it has stood to us.

Because we also see that we have better sense now than we had at fourteen.

And some of us can admit that just because we survived something, survived it with some positive outcome even, that doesn't mean we can't do better for own kids.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Something that not all of you can say for yourselves.

That is very constructive and not at all completely insulting or condescending :rolleyes:

beauf

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The OP was pretty reticent with details at first, ...

The OP build have asked the same question in a single sentence and it wouldn't have changed the answer.

But people love a bit of tabloid digging.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Yes, teenagers are poor at making decisions, ....

Thanks for agreeing with me. Law treats them differently also.

Mark Hamill

beauf wrote: »

The OP build have asked the same question in a single sentence and it wouldn't have changed the answer.

It would have made the answer even less informed.

beauf wrote: »

Thanks for agreeing with me. Law treats them differently also.

Yes, teenagers are poor at making decisions, which is why you need to teach them to become adults by allowing them to make (safe) adult choices.
The OP wants his son to definitely get a job and doesn't want to go back on that, that's fine. But the OP could have discussed this with his son, informed him of his son's burgeoning responsibility to financially support himself (at least his leisure activities) and pointed out the benefit of having his own money. He could have given his son options on the nature of the job, which days worked, allowed his son to negotiate his wages etc.

Not giving his son any choices in the matter and yet expecting him to develop into a mature adult capable of making mature adult choices would be like expecting his son pass his Junior Cert without attending classes or doing any study.

beauf

Mark Hamill wrote: »

It would have made the answer even less informed.

... and yet we don't see everyone quoting all this "vital" information.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

...
would be like expecting his son pass his Junior Cert without attending classes or doing any study.

..and yet people seem happy for kids to get a job at the end of school and make career decision without having any experience of work.

KiKi III

Lads, you’ve both made your points at length.

Agree to disagree?

beauf

Certainly.

Lefty Bicek

Mark Hamill wrote: »

And some of us can admit that just because we survived something, survived it with some positive outcome even, that doesn't mean we can't do better for own kids.

Your bizarre use of language does a disservice to the children who really did overcome and survive dark times and places in this country.

Apart from that - basic manners dictates that you read the thread before you engage with someone. Therefore, I refer you to my previous post -

I did it, and a lot of my friends did it. We had a great time.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113593837&postcount=216


You survived a summer job.

Strumms

Homelander wrote: »

Jesus, he's 14, not 4, and a few hours work is certainly no harm. He's not being asked to go coal-mining 40 hours a week, some people really need to get a grip.

I'm in my 30's and almost all of my friends started working at 14/15. Most of us had to be "forced" but once we started earning our own money and understood what "working" was all about, you'd never go back.

One or two would've even been 13/14, with parents who ran their own business.

If you left it entirely up to the kid he'd probably be sitting at home in a dark room playing the Xbox until he was 20. The vast majority of kids need that first push and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that.

People arguing therapeutic approaches that "convince the teenager it was his idea" - eh, sorry, just no. How about "You're getting a job and that's that".

It’s harm, because its illegal.

So this ‘parent’ first of all wants to get their 14 year old child a job, whereby they would be breaking the law and so would the employer.

Then when the 14 year old child doesn’t want the job, whatever the motivations be it concern they are not ready, health situation, the law or whatever apprehension... the parent then in the midst of a serious health crisis takes away their games console and their phone. In the middle of a health and social crisis unseen in the history of the state, sorry PLANET and THATS the fûcking reaction of their parent ? Ridiculous, I feel sorry and some for the kid... I’m 40, been bored off my head and Netflix, PS4 and Facebook have been keeping me sane...

Parents need to parent, they need to listen, understand and realize the impacts of this situation, as they are manifesting themselves. The kid at home on their games console feels safe, busy, occupied, distracted, with their phone they feel connected to their peers...that rug has been well and truly yanked from underneath them.. sorry but it’s simply terrible, idiotic and thoughtless parenting.

Not often a thread or post leaves me angry but...

Mark Hamill

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Your bizarre use of language does a disservice to the children who really did overcome and survive dark times and places in this country.

Apart from that - basic manners dictates that you read the thread before you engage with someone. Therefore, I refer you to my previous post -



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113593837&postcount=216


You survived a summer job.

Some jobs I had when I was young I enjoyed, some were just fine, some I merely survived. I don't assume that anyone else would feel the same way about them that I did.
I also don't assume that the things I did as a kid are necessarily the best things kids nowadays should do. Even if something benefited me, it's possible that there is still something even better, I am open to that possibility.

ExMachina1000

I think if you can convince him to do the two days that once he physically the money into his hand and realizes he can buy himself xbox games or things he wants his attitude will quickly change. Make sure his boss gets him to put in a fair days work for his payment.

It will stick with him for good and he will probably always have a side job after this first one.
At fourteen that will surely be a solid start for him.

KiKi III

Maybe he’ll decide he likes earning money more than the OP thinks, lose interest in school and drop out after Junior Cert for a job with few long-term prospects.

Happened a lot of guys I went to school with. Thought they were on the pigs back with their own cars at 17 in low-skill construction jobs (not trades) and they were f**ked when the recession came along without even a Leaving Cert behind them.

Lots of ways this can turn out.

Lefty Bicek

KiKi III wrote: »

Maybe he’ll decide he likes earning money more than the OP thinks, lose interest in school and drop out after Junior Cert for a job with few long-term prospects.

Happened a lot of guys I went to school with. Thought they were on the pigs back with their own cars at 17 in low-skill construction jobs (not trades) and they were f**ked when the recession came along without even a Leaving Cert behind them.

Lots of ways this can turn out.

Lots of ways it could turn out, so you went with one that -

a) is fair depressing
b) reflects poorly on the parent

Solli

Best thing you can possibly do for your son. All my kids worked from age 14, one even younger and they loved the money and the independence it gave them to buy their own things. Also they learnt to deal with people and be punctual and polite. Looks great on their cv too. Only thing is, kids usually would find the work with our help. Normally you could ask him what ideas he has himself and work from there, but these are not normal times. Best of luck

KiKi III

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Lots of ways it could turn out, so you went with one that -

a) is fair depressing
b) reflects poorly on the parent

And you chose the one where there are absolutely no downsides?

Lefty Bicek

KiKi III wrote: »

And you chose the one where there are absolutely no downsides?

Only one of us was scaremongering, and it wasn't me.

GarIT

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Make sure his boss gets him to put in a fair days work for his payment.

Fair as in half assed as he is getting paid half of what he is entitled to?

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

Fair as in half assed as he is getting paid half of what he is entitled to?

Who says he's entitled to half ?

Link, please.

Lefty Bicek

From citizensinformation.ie

'... most employees are entitled to a minimum wage under the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. Sub-minimum rates apply to some people, such as those aged under 20 (See the ‘Rates’ section below).

You are not entitled to receive the national minimum wage if you are:

Under 20

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

The Protection of Young Persons (Employment) Act 1996 is designed to protect the health of young workers and ensure that work carried out during school years does not put young people's education at risk.

Children aged 14 and 15 may be employed as follows:

Doing light work during the school holidays – they must have at least 21 days off work during this time

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html

How much of the above has been superceded ?

skooterblue2

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s €5 an hour , for an 8 hour day.
I think that’s too much work every day for a 14 year old.

I think he could get away from the XBox and restriction of that is good , but this seems to be one extreme to the other. 3 days a week would be good though.

At the same age 30 years ago approx, I had no xbox (or sega/nintendo). I was picking potatoes and parsnips (got an allergic rash) before they had wanderly wagons. I was sun burn worked with rougher kids, toughened me up and I learned that if I didnt get a good education I would be picking potatoes for the rest of my days.

challengemaster

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

From citizensinformation.ie

Nobody said he's entitled to the full minimum wage of €10.10. For his age he's entitled to €7.07/ph. Not the illegal suggestion of €5/ph.

riclad

I don't think employers give a damn if someone worked a few weeks as a child aged 14
When he leaves school they will be looking at his leaving cert results.Does he have experience using certain apps, Ms office, spreadsheets excel etc from the age of 14 to 18 his brain is developing . You cannot expect a 14 year old to make adult decisions . It's not a good idea to force a child to do something , if he decides I need a bit extra money I'll work for a few weeks
That's a different manner
By the time he's 18 or leaving school the world will be a different place , he may decide to
go to university its too early to tell