Ash Dieback

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

seeing what looks like dieback a hell of a lot around north county dublin today.

O Dear, I'm hoping not, this particular tree had no obv signs over the past 2 years and yet every younger Ash got decimated, albeit I've somehow managed (Maybe living in hope) rescued two as posted earlier.

rn

I took a picture of Ash in an adjoining field. These are doing poorly, but I'm putting this down to a challenging spring for native trees and these Ash are in very poor ground. It's the older trees that are going well. Will have to revisit later in August to see if it's dieback if following advice in the videos in earlier posts.

Dempo1

rn wrote: »

I took a picture of Ash in an adjoining field. These are doing poorly, but I'm putting this down to a challenging spring for native trees and these Ash are in very poor ground. It's the older trees that are going well. Will have to revisit later in August to see if it's dieback if following advice in the videos in earlier posts.

Almost looks like my site, are we neighbours

Only kidding, yes very similar to what I had albeit mine had no foliage at all and the black bud and dead stem tell tale signs. I'm hopeful it was the challenging spring too re my large Ash, its just a wait and see.

rn

We're neighbouring counties, I'm the other side of Shannon in South roscommon.

magicbastarder

i'm seeing a lot of that - some trees which have come into leaf right out to the end of the twigs, but some where the twigs extend a foot or two out past the canopy of the tree.

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/dan_pathfinder/status/1400116860922826754

AFAIK that chap is an NPWS ranger.

Dempo1

rn wrote: »

We're neighbouring counties, I'm the other side of Shannon in South roscommon.

Lovely neck of the woods ( no pun intended)

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dan_pathfinder/status/1400116860922826754

AFAIK that chap is an NPWS ranger.

Just on that, I noticed the opposite actually, what I mean is, it would seem the two trees I wanted to save, seemed only affected in certain areas, absolutely no growth, foliage on those stems at all, it actually helped me identify what to prune. I'm certainly no expert but just thought I'd point out there was no bloom on affected areas, that maybe because I hadn't perhaps spotted the disease until last summer.

Finally on one of the trees, I literally pruned it completely assuming it had died, now there is new shoots popping up everywhere, I thought once Die Back struck a tree it was curtains, no new growth possible.

bb12

i think it's been a harsh and cold spring which set the ash back a lot. we've a farm full of ash trees and they're only now just coming back into themselves. usually they're at full foliage by the end of may but it seems to be delayed a few weeks this year. some are now in full bloom with a few stragglers behind but they should catch up in the next few weeks

Dempo1

bb12 wrote: »

i think it's been a harsh and cold spring which set the ash back a lot. we've a farm full of ash trees and they're only now just coming back into themselves. usually they're at full foliage by the end of may but it seems to be delayed a few weeks this year. some are now in full bloom with a few stragglers behind but they should catch up in the next few weeks

I'm hoping this the case I certainly noticed some other trees I have, young oaks, Mountain Ash (not apparently affected as it from a different family of tree's) , magnolia etc were late blooming this year

magicbastarder

what i'm seeing is not ash coming late into leaf - it's ash coming into leaf in a different way. ash trees with a 'halo' of twigs and branches which are bare.

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what i'm seeing is not ash coming late into leaf - it's ash coming into leaf in a different way. ash trees with a 'halo' of twigs and branches which are bare.

I'm seeing that on my mature Ash but definitely not on the two younger ones I severely pruned, leaves actually looking excellent (so far)

magicbastarder

you may have pruned back past where the dieback would have occured?

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

you may have pruned back past where the dieback would have occured?

This quite possible, I was under the impression Die Back, once it got a hold of a tree, it was generally fatal and tree would eventually succumb and die. Its a pity I did not take pictures of the sorry state they were in last year. But I'm no expert, I'd given up on the two pruned trees, thinking what remains can stay as a feature as such.

The other younger ash's throughout additional site have little or no life, some as you described.

I'll be sure to post pictures later in the season but both seemed to have survived (for the time being)

biddyearley

It's ash dieback. Across Europe 2% of the ash are surviving. Cut it out and be done with it.

As a warning to people with ash trees, as the tree dies it will dry out and rapidly become brittle and begin to break up in strong winds. Best remove all while living.

I noticed last summer after a brief storm the roads cross country were littered with what was unusual branchlets and bits of twigs, I had a look and it was all ash. Checked with colleagues who noticed the same thing. The tree is on the way out unfortunately.

biddyearley

For your information, Phytopthera ramorum, or sudden-oak death is spreading rapidly in larch trees this year.

rn

I've a lot of Ash, wouldn't be able to cut it all out even if I have to. But am considering taking some of the ones closer to house and farm buildings. However after being on this thread I think I'll wait until it's obvious Ash dieback. Is it really just 2% survive. I still think/hope we've a few years of Ash left.

But you're right about a dead tree. My own experience of a huge Ash was it came down in a mild storm after 4-5 years. No clue what it died from, but it was pre Ash die back. Did cut up the timber, but it was pretty useless at burning.

So once it looks well into a tree, it is worth considering taking down for safety and salvaging decent firewood. By the time it naturally comes down, it's just lots of labour for no return.

Hearing about sudden oak disease is no consolation tonight. I've about 20 oak growing in pots that I grew from acorns my father in law gave me. They are on year 2 and most are flying it. The provisional plan was to try to put em in near Ash I plan to take down but will likely change that now.
I've about 10 beech and 10 horse chestnuts also growing too that I planted last year.

magicbastarder

biddyearley wrote: »

For your information, Phytopthera ramorum, or sudden-oak death is spreading rapidly in larch trees this year.

a pity it wouldn't kill all the ponticum.

biddyearley

British Forestry Commission.


https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/fthr/pest-and-disease-resources/ash-dieback-hymenoscyphus-fraxineus/Not all symptoms are as per photos. In younger branches you'll see a light brownish/orange discoloration of the bark. Also wilted rust colored leaves and shoots in the crown in June July.

biddyearley

Classic ash dieback

Dempo1

biddyearley wrote: »

Classic ash dieback

Veru useful, thanks. I've never seen any bark affected with the Die Back, my own experience has been primarily stems not developing and drying out without any foliage and others not affected at all. I noticed on my older Ash a slightly different effect, namely a twigish kind of growth at the end of stems and a big decline in foliage generally throughout. On the younger ones, the stems effects main the bud at the end and it just goes black.

It's just the most bizzare of diseases.

By brutal pruning seems to have rescued two younger ash's albeit early days

biddyearley

magicbastarder wrote: »

a pity it wouldn't kill all the ponticum.

It does affect it, but also a host of other plants as well.


https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/advice/forest-protection/phytophthora-ramorum/

Dempo1

Just a quick update, I'm not exaggerating when I say I left nothing on this Ash tree after pruning in February.

biddyearley

Dempo1 wrote: »

Just a quick update, I'm not exaggerating when I say I left nothing on this Ash tree after pruning in February.

Problem is that it is an airborne fungus and spores are in dead leaves and other matter on the ground.
There's the valid argument about leaving trees to see what shows resistance, but with a 98% mortality rate and the effects of a dead/drying/collapsing tree, I think where the trees pose a danger to people they should come down. I believe the NRA has tenders out for the removal of roadside trees.


If anyone cares, since 2000, over 20 tree diseases have entered this country because of free trade. It is vital for the single market that we all have the same plant diseases.

Dempo1

biddyearley wrote: »

Problem is that it is an airborne fungus and spores are in dead leaves and other matter on the ground.
There's the valid argument about leaving trees to see what shows resistance, but with a 98% mortality rate and the effects of a dead/drying/collapsing tree, I think where the trees pose a danger to people they should come down. I believe the NRA has tenders out for the removal of roadside trees.


If anyone cares, since 2000, over 20 tree diseases have entered this country because of free trade. It is vital for the single market that we all have the same plant diseases.

I just wondered given the mortality rate how mine seems to be coming back to life, particularly when it seemed to have died.

biddyearley

Dempo1 wrote: »

I just wondered given the mortality rate how mine seems to be coming back to life, particularly when it seemed to have died.

You probably cut out the infected parts. The tree dies in stages-infected areas first.
Teagasc has been doing great work on the subject.





https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/research/ash-resistance-to-ash-dieback/

Dempo1

biddyearley wrote: »

You probably cut out the infected parts. The tree dies in stages-infected areas first.
Teagasc has been doing great work on the subject.





https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/research/ash-resistance-to-ash-dieback/

Yes indeed, I actually had a visit from them before the pandemic and they said the Midlands very badly affected.

macraignil

biddyearley wrote: »

It's ash dieback. Across Europe 2% of the ash are surviving. Cut it out and be done with it.

As a warning to people with ash trees, as the tree dies it will dry out and rapidly become brittle and begin to break up in strong winds. Best remove all while living.

I noticed last summer after a brief storm the roads cross country were littered with what was unusual branchlets and bits of twigs, I had a look and it was all ash. Checked with colleagues who noticed the same thing. The tree is on the way out unfortunately.

biddyearley wrote: »

British Forestry Commission.


https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/fthr/pest-and-disease-resources/ash-dieback-hymenoscyphus-fraxineus/Not all symptoms are as per photos. In younger branches you'll see a light brownish/orange discoloration of the bark. Also wilted rust colored leaves and shoots in the crown in June July.

Thanks for the link to the British forestry research publication. I think it should be noted that their official stance is that ash trees should not be routinely removed because of the disease and this should only be done when diseased trees pose a danger if they were to fall and cause damage.


I am not sure where you have got the 2% survival figure but I have read elsewhere that there has seemed to be some tolerance to the disease in Irish ash trees. We also have some wildlife that depends entirely on ash so to exterminate the ash trees in the country would be very damaging environmentally. Even if it is just 2% of trees are tolerant of the disease I think there is some hope for the long term future of ash since one tree can produce so many offspring so the tolerant survivors should be able to bring tree numbers back up again as long as people don't intervene and try to eliminate them all. I am continuing to move most of the ash saplings I find to places they have space to grow to full size as it makes such good firewood and trees near here seem to be OK so far. I can understand if we are planting a tree and can choose our variety then other options may make more sense now when the life span of the ash is not as reliable as it would have been in the past.

magicbastarder

+1
there's a certain breed/generation of irish person who just loves the sound of a chainsaw; i'd hate to see this turn into open season on ash, dressed up as being helpful.

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

+1
there's a certain breed/generation of irish person who just loves the sound of a chainsaw; i'd hate to see this turn into open season on ash, dressed up as being helpful.

I promise I was gentle with mine, albeit mainly clipped damaged stems and might have rescued my treasured Ash's