Ash Dieback

Treehelpplease

Am I imagining it or does this look like ash die back? Some leaves fell over the weekend which I assumed was because of the strong winds, however there seems to be a lot of empty top branches. There is also this discoloration on some of the younger branches. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Treehelpplease

Some more pictures

Treehelpplease

Any ideas? This will be my only bump of the thread, I'm just a bit desperate

New Home

I'm no expert, but this is my thinking. First of all, was it very very VERY windy where you are a few days ago? Did the leaves change around then, or were they like that before? If they were ok before, I would really think it's wind scorch (the trees and shrubs around here are similarly damaged), but then again the wind was more like gale. Secondly, I'd cut off a small branch/largish twig that looks like it's been affected and look at the wood - if it looks healthy with no brown discoloration inside the pulp, I would guess you're ok. But like I said, I'm no expert, I don't know whether damage to the wood would be immediately visible.

Ulmus

I'm afraid the thinning of the upper branches is most likely Ash Dieback.

Treehelpplease

New Home wrote: »

I'd cut off a small branch/largish twig that looks like it's been affected and look at the wood - if it looks healthy with no brown discoloration inside the pulp, I would guess you're ok. But like I said, I'm no expert, I don't know whether damage to the wood would be immediately visible.

I'll do this tonight and post a picture - other than the burning leaves and the marks on some of the younger branches, there seem to be no signs of ash dieback. Only one tree looks like it has a canker and that's been there for a few years. The tree its on is mostly full of leaves

New Home wrote: »

I'm no expert, but this is my thinking. First of all, was it very very VERY windy where you are a few days ago? Did the leaves change around then, or were they like that before? If they were ok before, I would really think it's wind scorch (the trees and shrubs around here are similarly damaged), but then again the wind was more like gale.

It was very windy, a lot of the trees around my area have the similar burned look on the leaves. One of our ferns does too and the tip of one has curled up and turned black like some of the upper leaves of the ash trees

Ulmus wrote: »

I'm afraid the thinning of the upper branches is most likely Ash Dieback.

There is a 250m long row of ash trees and only the trees by our house seem to be affected. They're also the tallest in the row and so have grown over the house. Whenever it gets windy, they seem to be most affected (in terms of blowing around) of all of the trees in the row. That's why I'm not sure if the thinning is from the wind or not as the trees that aren't as tall as the ones thinning (i.e. the ones not taller than the house so are more shielded) seem to be fine

New Home

Are there lots of leaves on the ground that may have been ripped off the trees by the wind?

New Home

These might be of help, op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuU8_e0Vw8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB1FezMffx8

https://ashdieback.co.uk/

Treehelpplease

Thank you, those were both useful videos. A lot of the trees seem to be growing at different stages - some are in full bloom while some only have tiny new leaves, as well as the keys hanging. The keys make it hard to tell if leaves have fallen off/died or not. There were a lot of leaves, yes, and I even found some branches that had snapped off (just the tops of them) with healthy looking leaves on them. One of the sycamore trees lost a lot of leaves too from the wind. The biggest problem for me is the trees are so tall, I can't get a look at most of them, even with a tall ladder. There are around 7, ranging in height from (guessing) 10 feet to 20-30 feet, all very old. I'm going to try and get some better pictures tonight of areas I think might be signs

From the site you listed, there is a canker but it doesn't look like any of the ones they listed - especially the diamond shape. None of the leaves are that black from I can see. No fungus, even on dead parts of trees/dead trees and no leaf necrosis or spotting. But that could just be me. We will see in the photos..

Treehelpplease

I was feeling hopefully as each branch I checked (dead ones that had fallen off and living ones that fell off in the storm) seemed okay. I decided to cut off one of the young branches that has blackening leaves and.. Is there anything else that could explain that?

New Home

The blackening might have been scorching, but I wouldn't be so confident about the wood.

Treehelpplease

I'm going to take more samples from a few more trees. The one I attached above was poorly pruned maybe 10 years ago and only recovered recently. Another tree I checked which was cut in half two years ago but has grown back great was fine. Either way, going to look into some new trees so they can start growing while the ash dies out in the hopes they replace eachother. I'm thinking lime, beech and oak would be the most similar. Some hawthorn too as that's already there

standardg60

I think you're worrying too much, there have been some very unusual weather patterns over the last few weeks, wait until next year.

Dr4gul4

Frost + wind burn effected everything a week or 3 ago, anything that was exposed. My laurel hedge had all it's new growth blackened. I've even seen the same on new Ivy shoots killed by it.

New Home

If you're really, really, really worried you could ask a tree surgeon to take a look.

Treehelpplease

Would frost and wind burn explain the darkening within the branch at #10? I really hope ye are right and part of me thinks ye are - I'm likely just overthinking this as I've got it in my head that all ash will be dead in two-three years. I'm going to do some pruning of big dead branches this weekend and see will that help the smaller ones growing develop further (plus if there is any infection in them, that might stop it spreading). One of the bigger dead branches (maybe 60/70cm long) fell off during the wind and when I checked the inside of that there didn't seem to be any infection signs. These trees are very old and they have a lot of sentimental value to me so I'm just struggling to accept they may be goners with ash dieback.

As for a tree surgeon, would to be able to diagnose ash dieback? I always thought tree surgeons were just fancy named tree fellers, especially since the ones that did my neighbours' a few years ago just cut things in half (which doesn't seem to be best practice at all)

New Home

Treehelpplease wrote: »

As for a tree surgeon, would to be able to diagnose ash dieback? I always thought tree surgeons were just fancy named tree fellers, especially since the ones that did my neighbours' a few years ago just cut things in half (which doesn't seem to be best practice at all)

No, proper tree surgeons are experts.

Treehelpplease

I'll have to look into getting one so. Thank you all for your help Just so I can confirm I am understanding wind scorch right, this is a new leaf I saw on the ground that had fallen off. Would this look like wind scorch?

New Home

Yes, or something else.

If you go by those videos, the leaves in ash dieback tend to wilt first while hanging on to the branch, then they turn brown and black but still hang onto the plant.

Try asking here, too. http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about416.html

Hillybilly4

All of our ash trees were scorched horrendously by the late frost we had this year. The leaves turned black and crispy and then fell off in the windy conditions a few days later. Never seen the like before. They are starting to produce some new greenery but they look very sad for themselves and it will be interesting to see if they ever fully recover.

Treehelpplease

New Home wrote: »

If you're really, really, really worried you could ask a tree surgeon to take a look.

Did just that as we got them pruned. A poor pruning job was done in the early 2000s and they had grown back poorly which may explain the thinning out. The tree surgeons said no sign of ash dieback and the insides of the trees they cut are all clean, no black ring. Thank God for that. They got quite a cut so will hopefully shoot out loads of new branches over the next few weeks.

rn

Ash die back is endemic in Ireland now though, so should people that have Ash and likely loads of Ash, be planning to take it down now while it's healthy and useful as fuel?

And replace it with other native trees, once the trees are down.

I've about 20 mature Ash, probably 80+years old. All over 30m high.

magicbastarder

rn wrote: »

take it down now while it's healthy and useful as fuel?

i wouldn't be so hasty; why would a tree showing the signs not also be useful as fuel?
regardless, and much more importantly; to cut a still healthy tree down to rescue it as fuel may also be cutting down a tree which is showing resistance to the disease, and it's those we need most. more than we need the fuel.

Treehelpplease

Unless it has it and is at risking of spreading to healthy trees or collapsing, I dont see why it should be felled. Who is to say it will ever get it, let alone in our lifetimes? What we have done is pruned ours back due to poor pruning damage and planted some more trees near them. If they eventually die, the new trees should replace them overtime. If not, it will be a nice row of large trees.

rn

I guess "wait and see" is more prudent approach. I've tried to pop in a few oak and beech saplings I grew last year, near to the mature Ash trees to see if they can be a back up in future years. Most of my trees are doing well currently, but there's one of the younger ones that looks poor this year. However I feel it's not Ash die back that it has, but some other disease or infection it has. The oldest Ash I had, died about 10 years ago. It was very old and extremely large. Died over course of 2 years and stood barren for 3 years. Eventually toppled over in a storm as the root system had rotted in the ground. It was a big job chopping it up and the timber was useless.

Hence my thoughts to take down before Ash die back kills them and makes them a safety issue and waste issue.

New Home

Could it be armillaria?

Dempo1

So my Ash Back experience. I'm in the Midlands and this disease was rampant. I lost a few trees and saved some through pretty drastic pruning, honestly I thought I'd lost them all. The disease doesn't appear to affect older mature trees. The two I saved are approximately 15 years old and are quite important as they are in the centre of my garden. I've another massive one at entrance, certainly over a 100 years probably more and no issues at all, however the disease spread to an adjoining site I have, every Ash died.

The two I saved we're it seems not affected all over, one more affected than the other. Thinking I'd lost them I did pretty drastic pruning thinking ill maintain what's left as a kind of feature.

To my astonishment, both have come back to life, I can't explain it as I thought Ash Die back fatal. Such was the pruning on one it now resembles a palm tree or bamboo . I'll attach pictures of results. Apologies dull day today.

Dempo1

Apologies I posted same pic twice, this the second tree.

rn

Interesting what you are finding regarding the more mature trees. I'm also in the Midlands

Dempo1

rn wrote: »

Interesting what you are finding regarding the more mature trees. I'm also in the Midlands

Hi, I'm in the slieve blooms ,

I'm just amazed the two trees I took pics of came back, there was little or no growth last year, you could clearly see were the die back was attacking stems, buds etc.

Re the mature tree, I'd have to say not as much foliage as normal to be honest but no obvious signs of disease. I'm putting that down to cold spell in early May? In my adjoing site all younger Ash trees growing around boundaries succumbed, its extraordinary how this disease works.

I'll try attach pics of the mature Ash which must be 100 ft tall. If this gets diseased that's going to be a serious job.

magicbastarder

seeing what looks like dieback a hell of a lot around north county dublin today.

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

seeing what looks like dieback a hell of a lot around north county dublin today.

O Dear, I'm hoping not, this particular tree had no obv signs over the past 2 years and yet every younger Ash got decimated, albeit I've somehow managed (Maybe living in hope) rescued two as posted earlier.

rn

I took a picture of Ash in an adjoining field. These are doing poorly, but I'm putting this down to a challenging spring for native trees and these Ash are in very poor ground. It's the older trees that are going well. Will have to revisit later in August to see if it's dieback if following advice in the videos in earlier posts.

Dempo1

rn wrote: »

I took a picture of Ash in an adjoining field. These are doing poorly, but I'm putting this down to a challenging spring for native trees and these Ash are in very poor ground. It's the older trees that are going well. Will have to revisit later in August to see if it's dieback if following advice in the videos in earlier posts.

Almost looks like my site, are we neighbours

Only kidding, yes very similar to what I had albeit mine had no foliage at all and the black bud and dead stem tell tale signs. I'm hopeful it was the challenging spring too re my large Ash, its just a wait and see.

rn

We're neighbouring counties, I'm the other side of Shannon in South roscommon.

magicbastarder

i'm seeing a lot of that - some trees which have come into leaf right out to the end of the twigs, but some where the twigs extend a foot or two out past the canopy of the tree.

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/dan_pathfinder/status/1400116860922826754

AFAIK that chap is an NPWS ranger.

Dempo1

rn wrote: »

We're neighbouring counties, I'm the other side of Shannon in South roscommon.

Lovely neck of the woods ( no pun intended)

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dan_pathfinder/status/1400116860922826754

AFAIK that chap is an NPWS ranger.

Just on that, I noticed the opposite actually, what I mean is, it would seem the two trees I wanted to save, seemed only affected in certain areas, absolutely no growth, foliage on those stems at all, it actually helped me identify what to prune. I'm certainly no expert but just thought I'd point out there was no bloom on affected areas, that maybe because I hadn't perhaps spotted the disease until last summer.

Finally on one of the trees, I literally pruned it completely assuming it had died, now there is new shoots popping up everywhere, I thought once Die Back struck a tree it was curtains, no new growth possible.

bb12

i think it's been a harsh and cold spring which set the ash back a lot. we've a farm full of ash trees and they're only now just coming back into themselves. usually they're at full foliage by the end of may but it seems to be delayed a few weeks this year. some are now in full bloom with a few stragglers behind but they should catch up in the next few weeks

Dempo1

bb12 wrote: »

i think it's been a harsh and cold spring which set the ash back a lot. we've a farm full of ash trees and they're only now just coming back into themselves. usually they're at full foliage by the end of may but it seems to be delayed a few weeks this year. some are now in full bloom with a few stragglers behind but they should catch up in the next few weeks

I'm hoping this the case I certainly noticed some other trees I have, young oaks, Mountain Ash (not apparently affected as it from a different family of tree's) , magnolia etc were late blooming this year

magicbastarder

what i'm seeing is not ash coming late into leaf - it's ash coming into leaf in a different way. ash trees with a 'halo' of twigs and branches which are bare.

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what i'm seeing is not ash coming late into leaf - it's ash coming into leaf in a different way. ash trees with a 'halo' of twigs and branches which are bare.

I'm seeing that on my mature Ash but definitely not on the two younger ones I severely pruned, leaves actually looking excellent (so far)

magicbastarder

you may have pruned back past where the dieback would have occured?

Dempo1

magicbastarder wrote: »

you may have pruned back past where the dieback would have occured?

This quite possible, I was under the impression Die Back, once it got a hold of a tree, it was generally fatal and tree would eventually succumb and die. Its a pity I did not take pictures of the sorry state they were in last year. But I'm no expert, I'd given up on the two pruned trees, thinking what remains can stay as a feature as such.

The other younger ash's throughout additional site have little or no life, some as you described.

I'll be sure to post pictures later in the season but both seemed to have survived (for the time being)

biddyearley

It's ash dieback. Across Europe 2% of the ash are surviving. Cut it out and be done with it.

As a warning to people with ash trees, as the tree dies it will dry out and rapidly become brittle and begin to break up in strong winds. Best remove all while living.

I noticed last summer after a brief storm the roads cross country were littered with what was unusual branchlets and bits of twigs, I had a look and it was all ash. Checked with colleagues who noticed the same thing. The tree is on the way out unfortunately.

biddyearley

For your information, Phytopthera ramorum, or sudden-oak death is spreading rapidly in larch trees this year.

rn

I've a lot of Ash, wouldn't be able to cut it all out even if I have to. But am considering taking some of the ones closer to house and farm buildings. However after being on this thread I think I'll wait until it's obvious Ash dieback. Is it really just 2% survive. I still think/hope we've a few years of Ash left.

But you're right about a dead tree. My own experience of a huge Ash was it came down in a mild storm after 4-5 years. No clue what it died from, but it was pre Ash die back. Did cut up the timber, but it was pretty useless at burning.

So once it looks well into a tree, it is worth considering taking down for safety and salvaging decent firewood. By the time it naturally comes down, it's just lots of labour for no return.

Hearing about sudden oak disease is no consolation tonight. I've about 20 oak growing in pots that I grew from acorns my father in law gave me. They are on year 2 and most are flying it. The provisional plan was to try to put em in near Ash I plan to take down but will likely change that now.
I've about 10 beech and 10 horse chestnuts also growing too that I planted last year.

magicbastarder

biddyearley wrote: »

For your information, Phytopthera ramorum, or sudden-oak death is spreading rapidly in larch trees this year.

a pity it wouldn't kill all the ponticum.

biddyearley

British Forestry Commission.


https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/fthr/pest-and-disease-resources/ash-dieback-hymenoscyphus-fraxineus/Not all symptoms are as per photos. In younger branches you'll see a light brownish/orange discoloration of the bark. Also wilted rust colored leaves and shoots in the crown in June July.

biddyearley

Classic ash dieback