What are your thoughts on the Ian Wright/Patrick O'Brien situation?

JimmyVik

JeffreyEpspeen wrote: »

Ian Wright mocked Roy Keane's accent on live TV in front of millions of viewers. Hopefully he learned a lesson of his own through this. 18 or 19 years old is old enough to know better and so is 57.

I think Ian Wright deserved jail for that more than this kid did.
He was old enough to know better.

Pogue eile

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

weldoninhio

nullzero wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

There are countless other people who have committed far more egregious offences who will not see the inside of a cell either.

The state is overflowing with scumbags walking the streets with suspended sentences, why would this person be ahead of them in the queue to serve time in prison?

Would you prefer to see some stupid kid who made racist remarks over the Internet locked up before somebody who committed a violent crime? That's where value for money for the taxpayer comes into play.

Did you read what I wrote?

No mention of a cell in what I wrote to you. How much would it have cost the state to convict him and keep the same non-punishment (hand over your pocket money)??

Liamario

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Of course there's a racism problem in Ireland, but it's not the same as racism in America. American racism is baked into society, Irish racism is far more casual and loose and is used against everyone and anyone (including fellow Irish men and women)

The Inbetween is mine

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

1: did Patrick O'Brien do wrong.... Yes.
2: was it a racist act....... Yes
3: was it incitement to hatred.... No
4: was this a jailable offence ... No

I think that covers the most of it...even handed posters are not blaming Wright.... Nor are they excusing the actions of Mr O'Brien.
But a jail sentence for this case would be wrong, and that's about how I see it

Pogue eile

Liamario wrote: »

Of course there's a racism problem in Ireland, but it's not the same as racism in America. American racism is baked into society, Irish racism is far more casual and loose and is used against everyone and anyone (including fellow Irish men and women)

Wow!

The prosecution rests your honor!

partyguinness

zimmermania wrote: »

If you are referring to all those who consider that racist remarks have no place in society a "mob"i find your remarks offensive.

You see, we have a Court system in the country which are presided over by Judges. As a country we do not convict on speculation. Nor do we have trial by media or trial by internet with all sorts voicing all sorts of opinions without the same information the Judge had to hand.

If you are that easily offended you really are in the wrong place.

zimmermania wrote: »

I am also puzzled that you can claim that he would have gone to the circuit court to appeal the 1 month in jail!.How do you know that or are just making an assumption?

Absolutely nothing puzzling about it whatsoever. It could only be puzzling to a keyboard warrior without a clue. That is just showing up your lack of understanding. Of course he would have appealed.

"1 month in jail. Grand. Sure I'll take that...I could do with a bit of a break" said nobody ever.

If you were handed a 1 jail sentence would you just take it on the chin and allow yourself to be carted off in the back of a police car to Mountjoy or

Would you listen to your solicitor, lodge a bail application, and appeal to the Circuit Court and take your chances there a few months later?

Would you prefer to spend that night in Mounjoy or in the comfort of your own bed? Not so puzzling now is it.

zimmermania wrote: »

If he had the neck to appeal a 1 month sentence (had he received it) i would be hopeful that the sentence would be increased to 3 months which might be more appropriate for the vile remarks directed at another human being and such a sentence might deter others of a like mind to keep their racist remarks to themselves.

Perhaps it would have been increased. That's the chance you take on appeal. But extremely unlikely.

I am delighted the lowlife was caught.

nullzero

weldoninhio wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

No mention of a cell in what I wrote to you. How much would it have cost the state to convict him and keep the same non-punishment (hand over your pocket money)??

A criminal conviction will stay with him forever and will limit his employment opportunities. Without speculating over this person's background I'll take that a criminal conviction is a lifelong mark against them that they cannot erase and would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on their ability to seek and secure employment. The likelihood of them becoming involved in criminality as a result of this is not something that can be ignored out of hand. The likelihood of any conviction being appealed also hasn't been taken into consideration.

The judgment may not have been satisfactory to you or others but it was correct in this instance.

I'd suggest that if people are seriously aggrieved by this ruling that you get together and begin a petition or something, although based upon the level of rationale put into arguing this here I doubt it would go very far.

RobbieTheRobber

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

nullzero

Pogue eile wrote: »

The amount and the level of victim blaming on this thread is sickening and is part of the massive problem we have in Ireland, anyone who doesn't think we have a racism problem in Ireland is deluded or complicit.

Who has blamed Ian Wright for anything?

nullzero

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

weldoninhio

nullzero wrote: »

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

Someone literally asked if what he said was racist.

JimmyVik

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Exactly. The types of racist comments made by Patrick O'Brien in his messages to Ian Wright are not uncommon in Ireland. Everyone in this thread should accept those comments are despicable and should not be acceptable in Ireland.

What happened here was racist abuse and the amount of whataboutery to ignore and excuse these racist remarks is quite galling.

Argue about the punishment or complete lack of punishment, but no one should be denying or excusing those racist remarks.

Everyone does accept that.
What most dont agree on is should he have done time.
A bit of perspective is always good. Ian Wright was hardly hiding under the couch in fear for his life because of a death threat he read on the internet.

nullzero

weldoninhio wrote: »

Someone literally asked if what he said was racist.

Can you link it? I can't find it.

RobbieTheRobber

JimmyVik wrote: »

Everyone does accept that.
What most dont agree on is should he have done time.
A bit of perspective is always good. Ian Wright was hardly hiding under the couch in fear for his life because of a death threat he read on the internet.

Call it straight out there as racist abuse then Jimmy. Don't talk around the subject don't use whataboutery bringing up Ian Wrights past. State this was racist abuse and unacceptable!

RobbieTheRobber

nullzero wrote: »

Has anyone, anyone at all said that what was said by this person was acceptable?

Was this racist abuse?

JimmyVik

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Call it straight out there as racist abuse then Jimmy. Don't talk around the subject don't use whataboutery bringing up Ian Wrights past. State this was racist abuse and unacceptable!

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

weldoninhio

nullzero wrote: »

Can you link it? I can't find it.

Post 150 Was this really racism? He made disgusting insulting and threatening comments that is undeniable and he should face consequences. But he made them with the intent to cause insult and fear due to an bizarre and illconceived sense of aggrivement rather than from outright racist beliefs.

RobbieTheRobber

JimmyVik wrote: »

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

Call it out for the racist abuse it was Jimmy, this shouldn't be so hard unless you are defending that it wasn't racist.

partyguinness

JimmyVik wrote: »

Nobody said it was acceptable.
What the problem here is, is that some people are bloodthirsty and want to jail the kid for a youthful mistake and making out like it was a credible threat to someones life, when it was actually just vile language on the internet and not a credible threat to life.

It was vile racist language. Don't forget that important bit.

Calling someone a wanker is very different from calling someone a b**** wanker.

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Your points dont make sense

Ian Wright is a victim here of a serious death threat.

Joey give over. It's a racist 18 year old idiot troll with mush for brains in another country online. It's nowhere near a serious death threat.

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Wow!

The prosecution rests your honor!

He’s right. Are you excusing American slavery, Jim Crow, Native American slaughters etc. How can you even begin to compare the two countries.

I haven’t read what this kid tweeted but it’s probably on par with or worse with the abuse that James McClean gets.

Both should be prosecuted.

nullzero

weldoninhio wrote: »

Post 150 Was this really racism? He made disgusting insulting and threatening comments that is undeniable and he should face consequences. But he made them with the intent to cause insult and fear due to an bizarre and illconceived sense of aggrivement rather than from outright racist beliefs.

Thanks.

It obviously was racism. That person should have recognised that.

Pogue eile

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I doubt the kid is a racist. He's just using the best possible weapons he has to get to someone, he probably went out drinking with his 3 black mates afterwards, then went home to his Asian GF.

coinop wrote: »

Is bullying a ginger a lesser crime than bullying an African?

Robsweezie wrote: »

i doubt the lad himself actually holds genuine deeply held racist views,

Fog Hat wrote: »

Drop the white saviour complex and think rationally.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

But I am sure Wright heard it all before. Shame on him, wishing prison on an immature kid for shooting his mouth off.

Someone asked for examples from this thread of people dismissing, defending or victim blaming - the above are just from a quick search of the first 4 pages of this thread, there are plenty more afterwards as well.

nullzero

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Was this racist abuse?

Yes.

I never said any different.

nullzero

Pogue eile wrote: »

Someone asked for examples from this thread of people dismissing, defending or victim blaming - the above are just from a quick search of the first 4 pages of this thread, there are plenty more afterwards as well.

All of those posts were rebuffed and those who posted them chose not to defend their positions because they were ridiculous.

The meat of this thread has been centred on whether or not the judgment passed was correct or not.

Dante

nullzero wrote: »

A criminal conviction will stay with him forever and will limit his employment opportunities. Without speculating over this person's background I'll take that a criminal conviction is a lifelong mark against them that they cannot erase and would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on their ability to seek and secure employment. The likelihood of them becoming involved in criminality as a result of this is not something that can be ignored out of hand. The likelihood of any conviction being appealed also hasn't been taken into consideration.

The judgment may not have been satisfactory to you or others but it was correct in this instance.

I disagree tbh, actions like this should have consequences. This type of behaviour will never stop unless those consequences are actually enforced. He racially abused and sent death threats directly to someone online, if that doesn't warrant a criminal conviction then I'm not sure what does.

JimmyVik

I think people probably wouldnt want to jail the kid if he wasnt a traveller.
Would you jail you own kids for posting language like that on the internet?
The prisons would be overflowing.

golondrinas

More than surprised that Wright was disappointed that the lad didn't get a hefty jail sentence. A custodial sentence would have ruined this lads shot at life going forward. I thought by Wrights tv demeanour he was a more forgiving type. Then on the pitch he could put the boot in, I suppose. it is well researched that young males brains don't mature fully until about 23/24. I am sure the learned judge was versed in this.

Anything the young lad posted was undefendable .

Didn’t Ian Wright mock an Irish accent on air once?