Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

donkey balls

How are they crewing the MAN base ?

Jack1985

donkey balls wrote: »

How are they crewing the MAN base ?

Nothing actually finalised. For Cabin Crew I would imagine it'll be locally sourced on the existing horrendous Aer Lingus UK salary scales comparable to other operators in UK, don't know how people live on them quite frankly.

goingnowhere

Pilots are seconded from Dublin apparently, EI did actively hire from Manchester after the demise of Thomas Cook so may have some eager to return to the UK.

Jack1985

There has been no formal talks in terms of recruitment with either FORSA or IALPA.

EI did actively hire from Manchester after the demise of Thomas Cook so may have some eager to return to the UK

They actively recruited post collapse of Monarch with an open day in MAN, the majority left - The EI 320/321 5:3 rostering was very different to those doing two sector jaunts in ZB during the Summer with quiet Winter's.

HTCOne

Jack1985 wrote: »

Nothing actually finalised. For Cabin Crew I would imagine it'll be locally sourced on the existing horrendous Aer Lingus UK salary scales comparable to other operators in UK, don't know how people live on them quite frankly.

Is it as bad as Mixed Fleet at BA? Remember getting told how bad that contract was years ago.

donkey balls

Jack1985 wrote: »

Nothing actually finalised. For Cabin Crew I would imagine it'll be locally sourced on the existing horrendous Aer Lingus UK salary scales comparable to other operators in UK, don't know how people live on them quite frankly.

An EI CC member i know is actually from MAN and worked for Servisair at MAN, She applied for EI CC and moved to Dublin.
I remember asking her why not BA with the bigger fleet and more destinations she said the salary was about £22k PA and she earn a lot more than that with EI.

Jack1985

HTCOne wrote: »

Is it as bad as Mixed Fleet at BA? Remember getting told how bad that contract was years ago.

Marginally better than that, Mixed Fleet was quite something, inferior conditions to even the likes of EZY. Quite remarkable how they could have an enjoyable life living or commuting to/from London on less than £16K PA on entry, I believe the top scale was in the region of up to 25K. :eek:

donkey balls wrote: »

An EI CC member i know is actually from MAN and worked for Servisair at MAN, She applied for EI CC and moved to Dublin.
I remember asking her why not BA with the bigger fleet and more destinations she said the salary was about £22k PA and she earn a lot more than that with EI.

Yep, lots of UK crew at DUB base - Despite what would be a much better quality of life being based at MAN (not being far from home) conditions would make it an irrational switch unless being kept on ROI T&C's which will never happen.

roadmaster

If Stobart find a buyer where would they look to fit in the current market. Would they look to compete with EI regional on there old routes as a stand alone airline or would they be looking for a new franchise?

Autorotator

donkey balls wrote: »

How are they crewing the MAN base ?

Would it not make sense to rehire some of the permanent seasonal cabin crew who were in the company a year before they were let go in March rather than recruit and train new cabin crew for MAN?

smurfjed

permanent seasonal cabin crew

Permanent AND seasonal ? Salaries according to this thread will be crap, so mightn't be attractive enough to get someone to move to the UK.

Locker10a

smurfjed wrote: »

Permanent AND seasonal ? Salaries according to this thread will be crap, so mightn't be attractive enough to get someone to move to the UK.

Yes permanent contract but with months off during winter quiet months. Give crew some level of job security and the airline flexibility and keeps staff/payroll costs down

imfml

Aer Lingus has requested the required permissions to start selling tickets on Friday for a Manchester operation

Tenger

Autorotator wrote: »

Would it not make sense to rehire some of the permanent seasonal cabin crew who were in the company a year before they were let go in March rather than recruit and train new cabin crew for MAN?

I’m pretty sure that someone in EI has looked at the figures and realised local crew are cheaper than sending over/seconding Irish crew.

In addition Brexit adds another layer of complexity (even allowing for Irish citizens being able to work in the UK)

billy few mates

Tenger wrote: »

I’m pretty sure that someone in EI has looked at the figures and realised local crew are cheaper than sending over/seconding Irish crew.

In addition Brexit adds another layer of complexity (even allowing for Irish citizens being able to work in the UK)

Brexit doesn't affect Irish people working in the UK (or vice versa)

LiamaDelta

Why have IAG chosen to use EI for this Manchester development rather than use BA? Seems strange to have to start promoting a new brand and routes when BA would already have that recognition. Is it a way of leveraging EI's lower cost base given that BA can just promote it as a codeshare?

jesus_thats_gre

Isn't there a lot of cynicism in the UK around British Airways only offering real services out of London? It isn't exactly baseless and this recent decision suggests that they see a cost efficient airline - or certainly a less premium airline, as being more viable outside of London.

cson

The laughable thing is that BA, at least in Y, are anything but premium!

Flew one of their new A321neos last summer with the slimline recaros & it was on a par with Spirit or Frontier.

goingnowhere

BA is far from a nimble cost efficient carrier

EI has A321NEOLR aircraft which can fly to the US (and do so very efficiently), BA has no narrow body aircraft capable of crossing the Atlantic with a full load of passengers, the 757's are long gone.

EI operates more routes out of Manchester than BA and has done for decades, EI used to fly MAN-CPH and MAN-DUS among others, in fact EI used to operate MAN as a hub back in the 70's/80's

kevinandrew

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Why have IAG chosen to use EI for this Manchester development rather than use BA? Seems strange to have to start promoting a new brand and routes when BA would already have that recognition. Is it a way of leveraging EI's lower cost base given that BA can just promote it as a codeshare?

There’s a few reasons but the main ones would be the potentially lower cost base and the better suited aircraft and on board product.

BA is a very premium heavy focused carrier and many of their aircraft cabins reflect this with First and Club World taking up large portions of the available cabin floor space. The cost of retrofitting a sub-fleet of aircraft to suit Manchester would be enough to put them off the idea entirely, that’s even before you consider the type of aircraft required; the smallest BA could go is a 787-8 while Aer Lingus has a readily available fleet of A321LR and A333.

A less obvious but still worth mentioning factor would be reputation. Aer Lingus has quietly built up a good reputation in the UK regions over the years as a decent airline with good service and competitive fares to both Ireland and North America. Meanwhile BA has basically spent the past decade getting dragged through the mud with various media horror stories, industrial relations issues, computer outages, data breaches and a general feeling that it’s not the airline it used to be. This is particularly felt in the regions where BA is practically non-existent.

LiamaDelta

kevinandrew wrote: »

There’s a few reasons but the main ones would be the potentially lower cost base and the better suited aircraft and on board product.

BA is a very premium heavy focused carrier and many of their aircraft cabins reflect this with First and Club World taking up large portions of the available cabin floor space. The cost of retrofitting a sub-fleet of aircraft to suit Manchester would be enough to put them off the idea entirely, that’s even before you consider the type of aircraft required; the smallest BA could go is a 787-8 while Aer Lingus has a readily available fleet of A321LR and A333.

Thanks for that, yes makes a lot of sense. I suppose EI would be seen as more leisure with a premium option so it could work well. Would a 787 not have a lower operating cost than a 330?
Unfortunately I forsee EI suffering the same fate as BA in terms of customer service as time moves on and they become embedded in the IAG culture over the decades.

Noxegon

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Thanks for that, yes makes a lot of sense. I suppose EI would be seen as more leisure with a premium option so it could work well. Would a 787 not have a lower operating cost than a 330?
Unfortunately I forsee EI suffering the same fate as BA in terms of customer service as time moves on and they become embedded in the IAG culture over the decades.

EI's customer service is nothing special as it stands. Related:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057659770

kevinandrew

When compared to its rivals, Aer Lingus still offers a pretty decent product and this is widely accepted across the industry. You can sit down and pick apart any airline as not every experience will be stellar but the overall picture tells a more balanced story.

It’s by no means a luxury carrier but it hasn’t pretended be that for many, many years. The likes of BA, Lufthansa, SAS etc. and the North American carriers tend to market themselves as the pinnacle of airline products and service when in reality they’re much closer to average.

Outside of the refund debacle, Aer Lingus has/had a compelling product and offering that was working well for them.

LiamaDelta

kevinandrew wrote: »

When compared to its rivals, Aer Lingus still offers a pretty decent product and this is widely accepted across the industry. You can sit down and pick apart any airline as not every experience will be stellar but the overall picture tells a more balanced story.

It’s by no means a luxury carrier but it hasn’t pretended be that for many, many years. The likes of BA, Lufthansa, SAS etc. and the North American carriers tend to market themselves as the pinnacle of airline products and service when in reality they’re much closer to average.

Outside of the refund debacle, Aer Lingus has/had a compelling product and offering that was working well for them.

Yeah true, thanks for your thoughts. Most of my long haul flying was mostly with BA where I've seen service levels and quality of everything from food to staff go through the floor over 10 years or so. I hope EI won't suffer the same fate but company culture changes slowly, I don't hold out much hope.

goingnowhere

EI is going to be competitive out of MAN, replacing Monarch and Thomas Cook it should be ahead in standards. Virgin will focus the minds, if they can stay afloat


The experience in economy with EI is better than BA (EI business class on a good day wipes BA completely)

Legroom/seat width is better, 9 across in a 787 and 10 across in a 777 is horrible, 8 across in a A330 is bliss
I find the A330 quieter than the B777
Food typically I found EI better and consistently so outbound (return is pretty much the same junk)
WiFi onboard
Staying away from LHR...
Cabins look a lot fresher and general aircraft condition is better


BA does lead on free booze and greater selection of stuff on the TV.


Proper carriers are rare, Japan Airlines is better than most premium economy in economy, everyone gets 34 inch seat pitch and the only carrier to have 8 across in a 787 not 9

LiamaDelta

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI is going to be competitive out of MAN, replacing Monarch and Thomas Cook it should be ahead in standards. Virgin will focus the minds, if they can stay afloat


The experience in economy with EI is better than BA (EI business class on a good day wipes BA completely)

Totally makes sense. They're effectively going after the Monarch & Thomas Cook leisure market which would be quite big in the north of England. Manchester is a significant hub with good access so would be an attractive option for that market and an alternative to London.

Tenger

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Totally makes sense. They're effectively going after the Monarch & Thomas Cook leisure market which would be quite big in the north of England. Manchester is a significant hub with good access so would be an attractive option for that market and an alternative to London.

In addition EI have carried a lot of UK passengers to the the US over the last 10 years. So it’s not like they are entering a brand new market.
They already know that the market is price sensitive and happy to travel via Dublin for Pre-clearance. Now they will be offering direct flights from MAN or fly via DUB and have pre-clearance.

BZ

EI-DUO just left SNN for Nimes in France and it seems EI-CPE has left DUB for the same place.

goingnowhere

Sad to see the A321's go. I very much doubt they will ever fly in revenue service again.

Great choice made by EI in the late 90's, huge step up from the 737 in capacity and experience. Even had the proper business class cabin and galley up front. My first EI flight was a brand new A321 to CDG in 1998...

Jack1985

BZ wrote: »

EI-DUO just left SNN for Nimes in France and it seems EI-CPE has left DUB for the same place.

Both long term storage, EI plan to return CPE next Summer.

HTCOne

Did they used to have 6 321 ceos?