Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Arghus

I have to take a time out for a while. I may or may not be back later to fight with ye all again.

growleaves

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I do have to say you are probably the most articulate, knowledgeable and insightful poster in this thread.

You post some very impressive reads & analysis that I dont feel enough people read, unfortunately.

Thank you. That's a nice compliment.

JRant

growleaves wrote: »

Given what we now know about the age profile of the victims, the recovery rate, the likely CFR etc. there is no way that lockdown prevented 120,000 deaths.

The official estimate (at first) was 85,000 deaths, hugely overestimated.

Boards-Twitter-social media predictions were that a cykotine storm mutation reminiscent of 1918-19 would wipe out tens or hundreds of millions worldwide. The less said the better! (A lot of the spoofers offering these predictions have now fled these threads.)

The point is that the general atmosphere of terror was conjured by these stories throwing around very high death-rate estimates.

Anyway you asked where the 100,000 figure came from so I supplied a link.

And let's not allow people to rewrite history by suggesting this was some lone wolf scientist. Those numbers were shouted loudly by Harris and Leo at the time. The media lapped up the misery porn and we're more than happy to run with it. Even the low ball value of 20000 deaths (with restrictions) seems to have been wiped from history.

Ginger n Lemon

The list keeps growing

Michael Smurfit: total lockdown of economies a ‘serious mistake’

n an interview with Inside Business, a podcast from The Irish Times, Mr Smurfit said: “My own view is that the lockdown will, upon examination by historians, look [like] a very serious mistake. There should have been a partial lockdown for elderly people and people with underlying symptoms and so forth. But to lock down entire populations, period, never happened before. Destroys the economy, destroys jobs, which is going to last for years and years to come.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/michael-smurfit-total-lockdown-of-economies-a-serious-mistake-1.4263934?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fmichael-smurfit-total-lockdown-of-economies-a-serious-mistake-1.4263934

I think i am also done for the day. Reading all of this every day, realising what a huge error we are making every day for absolutely no valid seriously medically justifiable reason, gets way too upsetting.

Other countries opening up bars, beaches, Switzerland letting 1000 football fans into football stadiums 8th of June onwards, just find it so difficult to believe we are so far behind, so early...

Arghus

JRant wrote: »

And let's not allow people to rewrite history by suggesting this was some lone wolf scientist. Those numbers were shouted loudly by Harris and Leo at the time. The media lapped up the misery porn and we're more than happy to run with it. Even the low ball value of 20000 deaths (with restrictions) seems to have been wiped from history.

Okay one more -

Can you point me to where Leo and Simon predicted a potential death toll of 100000?

PTH2009

over the weekend I saw an elderly women ask why she count sit inside supermacs and no word of a lie she siad 'Coronavirus is that still around ??

Some people :mad::mad::mad:

Pete_Cavan

Arghus wrote: »

The mind truly does boggle, but I'm not arguing in favour of indefinite restrictions or even another 12 weeks of restrictions. Where do I say I want those things?


I actually asked you a question in it: If you could eradicate community transmission with another 3-4 weeks, would you think it was a sacrifice worth making?

But can we ever really eradicate community transmission? What if we get another case after that, maybe an asymptomatic carrier from Britain visits family in NI and an Irish person goes north shopping and brings it back to, cabin crew on a flight bring it back, etc. This is what we have to remember, the virus won't just disappear from our country for ever. You say another 3-4 hypothetical weeks, then it will likely be another 3-4 weeks after that, it never ends. At some stage you have to grasp the nettle.

LiquidZeb

Goldengirl wrote: »

Nothing wrong with me , happy out in the sun! You're the one back peddling to try to hide your extremist leanings .
The fact that it was 3 days ago makes no difference , really .
But let's not fight shall we ?

Seriously you're nearly as bad as the ones accusing people of being Gemma fans with this Ron Paul nonsense. Go to the politics forum if you care so much about it.

JRant

Arghus wrote: »

Okay one more -

Can you point me to where Leo and Simon predicted a potential death toll of 100000?

Here's one article where Harris parrots this nonsense: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/simon-harris-this-could-go-well-beyond-the-health-service-1.4197351

The article referencing Leo in a few posts above.

It's very real I assure you.

SusieBlue

Arghus wrote: »

The mind truly does boggle, but I'm not arguing in favour of indefinite restrictions or even another 12 weeks of restrictions. Where do I say I want those things?


I actually asked you a question in it: If you could eradicate community transmission with another 3-4 weeks, would you think it was a sacrifice worth making?

Absolutely not worth it whatsoever and not a sacrifice worth making when the number will just go up when restrictions are eased again. It’s pointless.

More people will suffer from the continued lockdown than the amount of people that would benefit from community transmission being eradicated.

Community transmission is something we simply need to accept.

bb1234567

https://news.mb.com.ph/2020/05/27/brazil-poll-shows-60-support-tougher-lockdowns-to-combat-coronavirus/

60% of Brazilians say that they want a harsher lockdown to try and halt the spread of the virus

lukas8888

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I do have to say you are probably the most articulate, knowledgeable and insightful poster in this thread.

You post some very impressive reads & analysis that I dont feel enough people read, unfortunately.

I agree excellent poster,i particularly enjoyed his/her circular cause and effect posts.

LiquidZeb

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://news.mb.com.ph/2020/05/27/brazil-poll-shows-60-support-tougher-lockdowns-to-combat-coronavirus/

60% of Brazilians say that they want a harsher lockdown to try and halt the spread of the virus

What does Brazil have to do with ireland?

Beasty

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Seriously you're nearly as bad as the ones accusing people of being Gemma fans with this Ron Paul nonsense. Go to the politics forum if you care so much about it.

Attack the post, not the poster

JRant

JRant wrote: »

Here's one article where Harris parrots this nonsense: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/simon-harris-this-could-go-well-beyond-the-health-service-1.4197351

The article referencing Leo in a few posts above.

It's very real I assure you.

Lol, just read the 4th paragraph in that link, the irony of it all. This is just why I cannot take this seriously, the sanctimonious two faced Harris will not relax restrictions as it's easier for him to spout crap and then say he's going off the advice of medical experts, great advice, as always Tony.

The phasing out of restrictions seriously need to be re-evaluated asap. We keep hearing about the new laws regarding movement and distancing etc. so use the Garda to enforce things a bit more, make a few examples of people, while at the same time taking a slightly different approach to the nature of the restrictions. Once people see that there are real consequences (besides the obvious contracting or spreading covid) they might take more responsibility while still being about to move around a bit more.

thebaz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think i am also done for the day. Reading all of this every day, realising what a huge error we are making every day for absolutely no valid seriously medically justifiable reason, gets way too upsetting.

Other countries opening up bars, beaches, Switzerland letting 1000 football fans into football stadiums 8th of June onwards, just find it so difficult to believe we are so far behind, so early...

Ireland used to be a country of Rebels and free thinkers - we have become the biggest nanny state out ther, with no one taking personal reponsibility - but this massive oncoming recession will be way worse than what we have encountered with Covid- and serious questions will be asked , particularly by our children,

road_high

Tony Holohan is one of the worst things to happen politically to Ireland since de Valera. But in fairness to dev he was democratically elected by the people.
Saw a clip of him there on news, what a pompous dismissive prick. His worldview is that his cautious approach is the only one that matters related to Covid.
A few more people listed in ICU today and needless to say he was allover that as “worrying”. He’ll keep the gravy train rolling for himself and his cronies. Be an interesting investigation to see how much him and his cabal are costing us in terms of salary, fees and expenses.

Arghus

JRant wrote: »

Here's one article where Harris parrots this nonsense: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/simon-harris-this-could-go-well-beyond-the-health-service-1.4197351

The article referencing Leo in a few posts above.

It's very real I assure you.

Even Sam McConkey mentions that 100 000 figure in terms of it being an absolute worst case nightmare, but probably unlikely figure.

In that article Harris doesn't say he agrees that's a possible death toll.

Arghus

SusieBlue wrote: »

Absolutely not worth it whatsoever and not a sacrifice worth making when the number will just go up when restrictions are eased again. It’s pointless.

More people will suffer from the continued lockdown than the amount of people that would benefit from community transmission being eradicated.

Community transmission is something we simply need to accept.

I completely disagree with you. I guess that's all there is to it.

Idbatterim

I hope thet Holohan ***** is starting to get dogs abuse in public. At what stage was this fool given the keys to the country ?

MrDavid1976

road_high wrote: »

Tony Holohan is one of the worst things to happen politically to Ireland since de Valera. But in fairness to dev he was democratically elected by the people.
Saw a clip of him there on news, what a pompous dismissive prick. His worldview is that his cautious approach is the only one that matters related to Covid.
A few more people listed in ICU today and needless to say he was allover that as “worrying”. He’ll keep the gravy train rolling for himself and his cronies. Be an interesting investigation to see how much him and his cabal are costing us in terms of salary, fees and expenses.

Any indications of how much is being spent on PR with RTÉ?

fr336

road_high wrote: »

Tony Holohan is one of the worst things to happen politically to Ireland since de Valera. But in fairness to dev he was democratically elected by the people.
Saw a clip of him there on news, what a pompous dismissive prick. His worldview is that his cautious approach is the only one that matters related to Covid.
A few more people listed in ICU today and needless to say he was allover that as “worrying”. He’ll keep the gravy train rolling for himself and his cronies. Be an interesting investigation to see how much him and his cabal are costing us in terms of salary, fees and expenses.

Be interesting to see how much big business and their cabal might cost us in lost lives and economic damage if health professionals like Holohan, with nothing to gain and you know it, aren't listened to.

Idbatterim

The above post is some great trolling. ItS all about Tony's ego and this massive social experiment game they are playing...

Also the hundreds of thousands effected by this on the dole... they are big business are they ? Lol !

facehugger99

Idbatterim wrote: »

I hope thet Holohan ***** is starting to get dogs abuse in public. At what stage was this fool given the keys to the country ?

Holohan will sail into the sunset with his gold-plated pension while the rest of us are left to pick up the pieces of the country he has destroyed.

thebaz

Arghus wrote: »

Even Sam McConkey mentions that 100 000 figure in terms of it being an absolute worst case nightmare, but probably unlikely figure.

In that article Harris doesn't say he agrees that's a possible death toll.

yet, you were the one that questioned me twice about the doomsday 100,000 death figure - thts what we were being told - it didnt happen - we flattened the curve - yet you and Tony and Simon want to continue with this extreme lockdown when we had 76 new cases today - seriously - would we shut down the country for 76 new cases of any other disease - Right now I'm thinking a bad flu would actually be worse - but the oncoming economic recession will be a real killer - where will Tony and Simon be then ??? still on ther large salarys.

Idbatterim

facehugger99 wrote: »

Holohan will sail into the sunset with his gold-plated pension while the rest of us are left to pick up the pieces of the country he has destroyed.

He was let destroy it by those that should be leading, primarily varadkar the worlds biggest spoofed!

retro:electro

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

But can we ever really eradicate community transmission? What if we get another case after that, maybe an asymptomatic carrier from Britain visits family in NI and an Irish person goes north shopping and brings it back to, cabin crew on a flight bring it back, etc. This is what we have to remember, the virus won't just disappear from our country for ever. You say another 3-4 hypothetical weeks, then it will likely be another 3-4 weeks after that, it never ends. At some stage you have to grasp the nettle.

Exactly. At one stage or another a risky decision is going to have to be made for the greater good. But no one wants to take the risk because it seems we have a spectrum of egos involved and none of them want to be the fall guy. But that’s what leaders are there to do. It is literally their job to lead and make these decisions instead of kicking the can down the road. We should have them confidently moving along the stages and encouraging us along the way. Coronavirus might always be here, we just have to accept that. Many of us have dipped our toe back in the water again despite the government insisting it is not yet safe, and we are simply not afraid anymore.

MrDavid1976

fr336 wrote: »

Be interesting to see how much big business and their cabal might cost us in lost lives and economic damage if health professionals like Holohan, with nothing to gain and you know it, aren't listened to.

I don’t understand the point. The medics are people who have been sitting around canteen tables with instant coffee and Marietta biscuits for years talking about the dangers of pandemics and government after government ignoring public health. Suddenly Tony H is in the limelight with a daily TV show - the politicians are going to listen to him now and he will not change his advice to now suit those politicians who thought he was the head nurse in the Dept of Health all these years.

road_high

Idbatterim wrote: »

I hope thet Holohan ***** is starting to get dogs abuse in public. At what stage was this fool given the keys to the country ?

Well they were still drawing “superman”
murals in homage to our dear leader on Dublin walls last week. Hard to gauge what the real public think but given his antecedence you’d imagine anyone with their critical faculties engaged would not think much of him. And that’s putting it politely

thebaz

Idbatterim wrote: »

He was let destroy it by those that should be leading, primarily varadkar the worlds biggest spoofed!

judging by the pictures in the Park , even Leo at this stage doesnt believe Superman Tony , think its just Simon.