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Midlands phased reopening.

  • 02-05-2020 1:43pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    We had been discussing the phased reopening of certain sports in this thread, and with our sport in mind the Midlands has acted on the announcement of the slight easing of restrictions as outlined in the Taoiseach's speech.

    Those that know the range know it is huge. in fact it takes 8 km to walk the entire place. That is larger than some/most golf courses. As a non contact sport and with multiple ranges, all of which are outdoor, the Midlands is working towards a gradual and phased reopening of the facilities starting after May 18th.
    Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland

    Hello to all of our members and friends,

    MNSCI ranges will be adhering to the planned exit strategy for the COVID 19 Pandemic.

    We will be ready to open on the 18th of May in accordance with the government exit strategy.

    We will be working with the relevant authorities to ensure that we have everything necessary in place for reopening. This will allow for us to participant in our great sport in a safe and satisfactory manner.

    We are lucky that our sport is outdoors, non contact and we have plenty of room to spread out and keep our distances. The midlands ranges are spaced out over a vast area and I have every intention of maximising this to allow for social distancing on all of our ranges.

    Obviously this will have to involve a change in our regular practise. Possible changes that may have to happen are bookings to use the range to ensure a safe capacity, and other alterations. All of this has yet to be decided.

    Of course we will let you all know how we will proceed with this when it has been finalised.

    I look forward to seeing you all again

    We will keep you updated

    Please continue to keep safe

    Yours in sport,

    JP craven

    The details outlined above, in an announcement from JP Craven of the Midlands range, tell that the situation is "fluid". Meaning details may change not only on the lead up to a reopening but during, and after the reopening.

    I'll update with more information as i get it or as it's released.

    Just a reminder of the facilities and if you've been to the range or are a member you'll understand how social distancing is not only achievable, but easily enacted on such a large range.
    • Two 25 metre sheltered Pistol / Rifle Ranges which facilitate any caliber including H.M.E
    • Twenty five target 50 metre sheltered Range with excellent benchrest tables which facilitates any calibre
    • 100 metre Range , 200 yard range and 300 meter range all sheltered with benchrest tables , any calibre
    • H.M.E on the 300 meters permitted
    • Outdoor Ranges
      • Windmill —- Firing points from 10 yards to 600 yards , any calibre and all H.M.E rifles permitted from 300 meters to 600 yards
      • Paper target , hanging steel targets , moving deer , Fox , wild boar etc available on this range
      • Sporting Clay Pigeon Layout
      • Stands include fur and feather , bolting rabbit, spring and teal , D.T.L , American Skeet A.B.T , Cock and Hen , Crossers etc
      • Long Range Creedmoor - 800,900,1000,1100 and 1200 yards firing points each of which caters for up to 60 shooters at any one time
      • Electronic target and 10 concrete benchrest tables that are sheltered also on 1000 yards
      • All calibres permitted and all H.M.E permitted
    • Archery Range in development
    • Reloading Facilities
    • Large clubhouse with an armoury
    • Registered Firearms Dealership
    • Tea / Coffee facilities
    • Toilets
    • Large outdoor sheltered seating area
    • All Ranges , facilities , buildings are fully compliant with planning regulations and fully authorized by Range Inspector ,Department of Justice and An Garda Siochana
    • Friendly and highly skilled staff in all types of Shooting Sports, Open to members six days a week

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«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Does the 5km travel restrictions not apply still though?


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭ Rifter


    Given the template laid out for the phases, I won't be able to make the MNSCI until Phase 4(July 20th).

    That's not a gripe, that's just the way it is.

    It is good to know they're preparing for reopening though.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Guys i'll answer as best i can but remember that i'm not JP so it's only an opinion, plus the situation can change very quickly so what might be "ok" now may not be in a day or week.
    scwazrh wrote: »
    Does the 5km travel restrictions not apply still though?
    The 5km is for exercise, up from 2km, and for over 70s to drive.
    Rifter wrote: »
    Given the template laid out for the phases, I won't be able to make the MNSCI until Phase 4(July 20th).

    That's not a gripe, that's just the way it is.

    It is good to know they're preparing for reopening though.
    You are referring to the 20km "limit"?

    Well from my own point of view that limit is meaningless to me even now, let alone the 2km one currently in place. Where i live its 31km in one direction and 29 in another to the nearest shop, etc. Now while that can be counted as necessary i'd wonder how many tennis courts, golf clubs, fishing locations are within 20km from EVERYONE's home.

    If a person is in their own car and travel, without stopping, to the place of their chosen sport (range, golf club, etc.) then i see no issue with this. However that specific point will be clarified by the range operator so no one gets into bother traveling to the range.

    Obviously the further you are from the range the harder the case becomes to justify your travel so some may be able to participate in the sport a little sooner than others, but as said at the start it'll be a phased introduction.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭ hiddenmongoose


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Does the 5km travel restrictions not apply still though?
    While I will be delighted to get to the range as soon as possible I don't think many live that close to the range, and if you are stopped with a gun or gun case on the back seat or you try to explain your going to the range I don't think it will be viewed well by the Guard. I was stopped at 7 separate checkpoints one day while traveling to work so there is quite a good chance of being stopped.



    I also agree with Cass said about not many living near golf courses or tennis courts but I think further clarification is needed. Be bad enough to be stopped and get in bother for '' non essential travel'' (which is what it would be viewed as) but having guns too , lord knows how that could go down.



    Again, I cant wait to get back to the range but more clarification is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Been thinking about this,and I am wondering could one get a local"pass" for want of a better term off your Super to travel to the range?You have to specify a route to and from the range,and stay on it,and specify your car reg as well.
    All it has to be is a bit of paper with an offical Garda stamp on it for any checkpoints.
    Wonder is it worth an ask? As a mate of mine lives 30 klicks from his elderly parent and has to look after him daily,and gets stopped almost every day bringing in supplies and food for him,and is asked the same damn questions of a necessary journey.At this stage somthing like this might be possible?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    I wouldn't even float the idea of a "pass".

    My annoyance at having my ability (without sounding like some Gem. O.D nutcase) to move freely curtailed, is tempered by my willingness to help aid with the reduction in cases of this 99% survivalable disease, by abiding in this lockdown. However the phasing as announced by Leo is once again a Dublin or even city based solution.

    Most people don't shoot so don't realise a range needs lots of space. However the phased reopening as announced by Leo specifically mentioned Golf, Tennis and other outdoor sports. Well shooting is as outdoor as you get and has even less chance of contact than golf, tennis, etc. It was not a thought through solution for those that live in isolated or rural areas.

    Same as the cabbage lover (Eamon Ryan) and his car sharing idea. I'd have to walk between 2 to 5km to get to someone with a car to share. Also how would buying the car, insurance, running costs, NCT, motor tax, resell, etc work. IOW they are ideas either floated or actually put into effect without the slightest regard to persons whose entire lives cannot be accommodated for within 20km, let alone 5km.

    Getting back to the phased reopening, as i don't want this thread to turn into another discussion about the Chinese virus, there are other factors that need to be clarified.

    For example the phased plan says no more than 4 people together while maintaining social distancing, even outdoors. Well surely that cannot mean 4 people in the entire range, or ona golf course, tennis court, etc. There are a dozen ranges within the MNSCI range, and having 4 people on EACH range would still allow for social distancing while accommodating plenty of people. I've seen days when there have been 100 people signed in that day and you'd wonder where the hell they are as the place look somewhat quiet.

    The booking idea for the range would give each person a dedicated start and finish time to avoid a flood of people. Not traveling until your booking has been confirmed also means no unexpected "drop ins" as they may (i'd hazard a guess) be turned away at the gate to maintain manageable numbers on each range.

    ROs at each range to enforce social distancing and also run the details. IOW each detail can be 20 to 25 minutes and the RO will start the detail and finish it to avoid details running too long and people waiting to long to get a card up.

    NO competitions of any kind. IOW nothing that requires close interaction of people. Plinking, informal target work only.

    This is an unprecedented event in our time so it will change each week, but one thing is for sure. There can be no mistakes with this phased reopening.

    With the Government asking for people to report those breaking the rules and the Irish people's willingness to shop their neighbor at the first sign of rule breaking there can be no let up of the restrictions put in place by the range otherwise your head will spin at the speed that all the relaxed restrictions will be fully implemented again.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    I'm intrigued myself with this phased plan of reopening. I may be missing something and plesse fill me in if so.
    I have read over and discussed each phase of the plan and feel there is a glaring hole in it - travel.

    As certain restrictions are lifted, but more likely eased / modified there is a planned roll out for people to return to work. This obviously will have to allow commutors to travel between home and work no matter the distance. Remember many of the cities/suburbs are the hubs of industry for people who are easliy commuting in excess of 200Km a day. Even those who use public transport for more regional or local commutes will run into difficulties if the same social distancing rules for public transport are applied. At present Dublin Bus rules of max 17 (?) passengers at anyone time is not an issue as the tradtional morning commute times and routes are deviod of passengers except for the handfull of essential workers. But I digress...

    Will the general population, regardless of social distancing guidelines be actually allowed to travel around the country for various reasons or even no reasons atall. What about international travel, again outside of essential travel reasons. Will we be able to leave the country or will forgein visitors be allowed in for non essential travel. I'm well aware that even later into the year things will not return to normal and I personally believe any international travel will be subject to various conditions but a little more clarification as to travel rules would be appreciated.

    Unless they allow me to do some pest control on the local golf courses the 20Km limit doesn't help me in the Big Smoke, even all the tennis courts around me are artificial , no hope there either!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Thinking about this a bit more .
    It would be best if the ranges just concentrate on the social distance measures within their facilities and work on the basis of they can be open so will open. there is no need for ranges to give any consideration to the distance travelled by their members . That’s not under their control or responsibility .
    It will then be up to each of us to decide if we think it’s acceptable to travel x amount of km to the range . Each of us can have our own reasons for justifying the journey and see how it holds up to questioning .


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    @ scwazrh - The ranges are, i'd imagine, just concentrating on the social distancing aspect of reopening because, as you rightly said, the distance travelled to the range is outside their control.

    The aspect of social distancing on a range will vary from range to range.

    A range like the Midlands can easily accommodate up to 12 persons on their larger ranges, such as the Creedmoor, 20 if they use the shorter ranges of the Creedmoor which can allow up to 60 persons on a normal day but by observing social distancing this would be reduced to a maximum of 20. You'd get ten to twelve on the Windmill with ease, and three person on each of the sheltered ranges, then four to six on the 50mtr range. The pistol range could take three easily and a couple more on the other side (zero range). The clay range may not actually be affected at all. The stands are roughly 6 feet apart, but even if you were overly cautious you could run three guys on each detail instead of the normal five.

    Now for those not shooting. There are plans, i believe, to have rest areas at all ranges. Benches and distanced seating. The clubhouse itself will be regulated much like a shopping centre with no more than three to four using it at any one time and social distancing being adhered to while in the building. It's large enough to hold 50 people to three to four at a time would easily be accommodated.

    Same when engaging in the social aspect of the range, the "sh*te talk" :D . Keep a minimum of 6 feet from each other and in groups of no more than four people. This can be monitored, and enforced, by the ROs.

    Now that is the Midlands. Each range can operate as they see fit and in keeping with best practices, but some ranges may struggle to accommodate "larger" numbers and some may even find that four people will essentially shut down the rest of the ranges due to the size of the range.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Forgive the question, but what does H.M.E stand for please?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    First problem for 99.9% of people will be GETTING TO those facilities.
    Few if any of us live within 5,or 20 klicks of a range,golf course or whatever.In my case its a 200 klick round trip.So unless I and I'd say 90% of Midlands members can get up there unhinderd.It might as well stay closed.:( Hence my point of needing somthing to say we can travel uninhinderd thee thru Garda checkpoints.

    Or triple our distances driving down back roads,boreens,laneways,and bridlepaths like somthing out of the Dukes of Hazzard avoiding the Sheriffs posse.:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Forgive the question, but what does H.M.E stand for please?

    High Muzzle Energy

    It refers to high muzzle energy rifles which by law can only be shot on ranges at distances of 300mtrs plus. Calibers like 6.5x284, 30-06, 300 WinMag, etc.

    Anything that produces over 4,200 joules which can include things like the 308 with the correct load, but with 99.9% of factory ammo, you're under this threshold.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Very unlikely Garda will give anything in writing to say you can travel. Someone near me was told by Garda that he’ll be alright going fishing but said if officially asked the answer is no.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    First problem for 99.9% of people will be GETTING TO those facilities.
    Few if any of us live within 5,or 20 klicks of a range,golf course or whatever.In my case its a 200 klick round trip.So unless I and I'd say 90% of Midlands members can get up there unhinderd.It might as well stay closed.:(

    And what about the other 10%? They should miss out because not everyone can go?

    This will be a gradual process as outlined from the very beginning of this thread. It won't be business as normal from the 18th, and yes that means some will get to start their sport sooner than others.
    Hence my point of needing somthing to say we can travel uninhinderd thee thru Garda checkpoints.
    A simple "memo" among AGS from the higher ups saying that those traveling to Golf Clubs, and ranges and other outdoor sports are exempt from the 20k limit due to the nature of their sport is all that is required.

    We're not at the "show me your papers" level of dictatorship, yet.
    Or triple our distances driving down back roads,boreens,laneways,and bridlepaths like somthing out of the Dukes of Hazzard avoiding the Sheriffs posse.:rolleyes:
    Jaysus, problem for every solution, or what?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    And what about the other 10%? They should miss out because not everyone can go?

    Never said that at all.I said in the Midlands case 90% of people wont be able to make it
    This will be a gradual process as outlined from the very beginning of this thread. It won't be business as normal from the 18th, and yes that means some will get to start their sport sooner than others.

    IF it all goes to plan and the triple dictatorship of Holohan , simple Simon Harris and Lord Vard agree,which I seriously doubt they will.

    A simple "memo" among AGS from the higher ups saying that those traveling to Golf Clubs, and ranges and other outdoor sports are exempt from the 20k limit due to the nature of their sport is all that is required.

    Indeed, but how shall we get this memo to thos PTB?And memos in AGS do tend to be occasionaly "missed" especially regarding firearms by some strange coincidence?
    We're not at the "show me your papers" level of dictatorship, yet.
    We are actually loooongggg past that friend Cass! What was signed away in rights in our names is horrifying,and this was one of the first things that was required.Letters from employeers,work IDs etc.And even in a good few cases of that it wasn't enough for some Garda Muldoon types on checkpoints.
    Jaysus, problem for every solution, or what?

    Nope realism on what has been going on already,with Dubs magically appearing in their holiday homes in Clare or all compass points.:P

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Never said that at all.I said in the Midlands case 90% of people wont be able to make it
    I know what you said, i was there when you said it :D , but the reply is still valid. The other 10% that can make it can, and the rest of us will have to wait and see how things transpire.
    IF it all goes to plan and the triple dictatorship of Holohan , simple Simon Harris and Lord Vard agree,which I seriously doubt they will.
    It out of our hands completely and if the signs or stats show a gradual or any easing in restrictions is not working then its back to square one. So its as much on us as them.
    Indeed, but how shall we get this memo to thos PTB?And memos in AGS do tend to be occasionaly "missed" especially regarding firearms by some strange coincidence?
    I am and am not being literal. By memo i mean an official announcement from the Commissioner, Assistant Commish, etc to the rank and file doing the actual stops to allow those that are traveling to a range or golf course, etc. to do so if they are adhering to proper social distancing. IOW not collecting the lads and four or five people from different households using the one vehicle, making multiple stops in various shops on the way. While some of it can be enforced the rest will be a case of self policing which the shooting community excels at.
    We are actually loooongggg past that friend Cass! What was signed away in rights in our names is horrifying,and this was one of the first things that was required.Letters from employeers,work IDs etc.And even in a good few cases of that it wasn't enough for some Garda Muldoon types on checkpoints.
    I don't know what you're referring to there and unless its about the ranges around the country opening i'm not that interested in a constitutional debate tbh.
    Nope realism on what has been going on already,with Dubs magically appearing in their holiday homes in Clare or all compass points.:P
    Again can you not just take the ray of light at face value. The prospect of the range(s) opening again, fishing, golfing, etc getting back into swing (no pun intended) should be something to look forward to and not a case to find fault with sleights people have with the Government. We'll have time for that later, but for right now i want to get back to my sport.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    I





    .
    I don't know what you're referring to there and unless its about the ranges around the country opening i'm not that interested in a constitutional debate tbh.

    Your "papers please" comment..We are long past the non requirement of carrying ID ,albeit unoffical around since end of Feb and since lockdown began.And TBH the constitution is silen on such matters too.
    Again can you not just take the ray of light at face value. The prospect of the range(s) opening again, fishing, golfing, etc getting back into swing (no pun intended) should be something to look forward to and not a case to find fault with sleights people have with the Government. We'll have time for that later, but for right now i want to get back to my spor

    I'm a natural born pessisimist.That way I'm never disappointed.:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭ Max H


    The info from the government is quite confusing. On one hand they say car parks and mountain walks can open, where you can social distance. But unnecessary journeys are still banned. So how will anyone be able to get to these car parks and mountain walks, or drive to the range or golf course. It's not been well thought out at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭ scwazrh


    Max H wrote: »
    . It's not been well thought out at all.

    That applies to nearly all the government actions over the last 2 months far as I’m concerned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ jb88


    aha lads if everyone took no for an answer on this forum we would be talking about nerf guns and the like..

    Never trust a minister for health who's only real qualification bar a Leaving Cert is Tea making..

    The most important thing in all of this is, use your own judgement to determine what you think is right to project yourself and others.

    If you think its safe, then it is. The Gardaí already trust you if you have a firearm licence. (Its just like golf but for real men/ women )

    So hope to see you at the range sometime


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,839 ✭✭✭✭ kowloon


    Reloading facilities?! When did this become a thing again?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    2009/2010

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  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭ Max H


    Just to add to this, I know for a fact that the Garda have told my local clay pigeon shoot, which is opening this week that they will be present and will check people haven't travelled more than 5km to the shoot. People are being advised to bring driving licence and Firearm licence with them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    I'd say very few of Midlands regular patrons are within 5km. This is not good news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭ eoin.d


    Max H wrote: »
    Just to add to this, I know for a fact that the Garda have told my local clay pigeon shoot, which is opening this week that they will be present and will check people haven't travelled more than 5km to the shoot. People are being advised to bring driving licence and Firearm licence with them

    Pity they weren't as good at stopping all the English travellers coming into the country for a holiday


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    Has Midlands issued any further advice for members on reopening/arrangements/bookings etc.?

    Not seeing anything.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    Has Midlands issued any further advice for members on reopening/arrangements/bookings etc.?

    Not seeing anything.....

    Nothing new on Facebook last time I looked anway ... which was this morning.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Nothing yet, but as i said at the start of this thread the planned re-opening was going to be in conjunction with the ability for people to travel which depended on what the Dáil voted on allowing yesterday or Friday (not sure which day).

    As the situation changes so to will the ability to open the range. Now the range could open from next week regardless, but this re-opening has to weighed against the use of it. I'm not saying to keep it closed until there are hundreds able to attend because getting the range open is also an important step regardless of attendance. So the entire range being open for two or three is still a viable reason. IOW just because there are only two or three doesn't mean the range cannot open, but plans must be made for ROs etc. (who do live within the 5km range) to be in attendance.

    As the distance and phasing extends so too will the numbers attending and the amount of ROs, etc.

    So in my opinion i assume the range will reopen as planned from next week with updates as soon as the RCOs & ROs make plans for each phase of reopening.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    Haven't seen any updates on this. I guess they haven't reopened yet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    alanmc wrote: »
    Haven't seen any updates on this. I guess they haven't reopened yet.

    Their lack of communication to paid up members is a joke.


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