Will you download the contact tracing app?

Akrasia

CBear1993 wrote: »

Nope now you’re putting words in my mouth. Typical of the brigade who wants everyone to do what they say to make them feel better.
I had loads of hand sanitizer before this thing even hit the ground in Ireland, stocked up on it, use it daily.
You know what else is a common public health measure in normal times? Sneezing into a tissue or what is now your elbow, but we don’t wear masks for it.

You’d think half of you had hard factual evidence for the tracing app and masks as if we’ve been doing it for a year minimum now, but none of you do. Any muppet can watch the news every evening or see what drivel they’re spewing out of the indo or the journal each day.

Go ahead and wear your masks everywhere, they already do it in some
Parts of Asia all the time from what I see, just don’t expect the whole of Ireland to do it with you because you’re feeling self righteous.

To be fair, I would expect nothing less from some blind pigs than a grunt.

“Known hotspots!” Ha! Oh right sorry there doctor, didn’t realize you were updating the case and death count daily, I retract all that I’ve said.
Another assumption. So because neither of those destinations are on our excuse of a governments’ green list they’re hotspots? Ahh.... you’ve just confirmed to me you can’t think for yourself.

Lol, I just said the app is a public health measure like washing your hands, and you go on a mad rant where you accuse me of making assumptions about you, while assuming that I want everyone to ‘wear masks everywhere’

You’re not as rational as you think you are

Akrasia

CBear1993 wrote: »

Happy now you got your point across. ?

I’m sure the internet vigilante will be proud of you taking a non existent law into your own hands to enforce it.

Good days work plodder

Do you realize that you’re coming across as a massive D1ck the way you are talking about yourself? (Rule number 1 on the boards charter is to not be one of those)

You’re not being edgy or independent minded, just selfish and arrogant.

We are in the middle of a global pandemic and you’re on here boasting about going off on multiple foreign trips and how you can’t be bothered to do the bare minimum required to help the public health authorities clean up the mess you could potentially make if you happen to bring the virus home from your holidays

theballz

Why would you not download it?

Because your are worried about your privacy as you hold a smart phone in your pocket?

Clowns.

The people complaining are the ones who know the least about it

Akrasia

endacl wrote: »

It's a no from me. The app won't run on my ancient hand-me-down iPhone 5.

I'll certainly use it if anybody hands me down a newer phone.

It’s understandable
Your iPhone 5 battery probably wouldn’t last the 15 minutes required to log a single close contact

Does it still count as a mobile phone if you have to have it plugged in all the time?

Akrasia

CBear1993 wrote: »

Yes I do but I’ll have to share it on the conspiracy theorist thread according to you, never addressed my previous post earlier calling you out on that.

So it’s the like for like here. Pick and choose when you want to intervene Batman? Congrats on getting self promoted to mod of this thread

You said earlier that you laugh at people who cite privacy concerns for not using the app while happily allowing google to track every single step they take (literally)

Your justification for not installing it was that you don’t like installing many apps on your phone

kippy

It's absolutely unfathomable as to why people won't download the app.
Granted I am and was skeptical of its benefits, primarily for this very reason. That not enough people will download it and use it.
There's absolutely no major benefit in not having the app installed.
While not a perfect solution it is one of a number of relatively small things people can do as part of their social responsibility to help fight against the spread of this virus.

BailMeOut

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I would prefer not to give them anything.

Then don't. The phone number is optional.

ACitizenErased

KyussB wrote: »

Ya we're in a thread about the app, did you notice?

We're in a thread that's titled "will you download the contact tracing app?" and you've said no, and you're still going on about privacy or some nonsense

KyussB

You think privacy and security concerns are not relevant, to people who will be downloading the app?

That at a minimum people should not know before they download, that:
1: You need either Android 10, or if on version 8/9 a security update from at least February, to close a bluetooth exploit on your phone.
2: If you're on Android, you need to adjust the Google Location Accuracy setting while using coronavirus apps, so that you're not sending your location information to Google frequently, which undermines the privacy claims made about the apps.

Prominent civil liberties and privacy organizations the world over are criticizing these apps all the time - that's very relevant to people who may be downloading the app.

plodder

Nobody needs to adjust the Location Accuracy setting on Android. You can if you want to. Google says they use the information they collect anonymously. Personally, I believe them.

Regardless of this app, I wouldn't keep any personal information on a phone that is not receiving security updates. If your phone hasn't been updated to fix that Bluetooth exploit, I would switch Bluetooth off, or else not use the phone for anything security sensitive like online banking. But that would be the case, whether I had this app or not.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

You think privacy and security concerns are not relevant, to people who will be downloading the app?

That at a minimum people should not know before they download, that:
1: You need either Android 10, or if on version 8/9 a security update from at least February, to close a bluetooth exploit on your phone.
2: If you're on Android, you need to adjust the Google Location Accuracy setting while using coronavirus apps, so that you're not sending your location information to Google frequently, which undermines the privacy claims made about the apps.

Prominent civil liberties and privacy organizations the world over are criticizing these apps all the time - that's very relevant to people who may be downloading the app.

I'd like to see the phones of the app skeptics. I'd be utterly shocked if they haven't got multiple apps tracking them far far more.

KyussB

You portray people concerned about privacy and security as 'app skeptics' - implying that they are silly to be worried about potential privacy/security issues - yet at exactly the same time, you point out the mass-prevalance of privacy/security invasions, that you assume are almost certainly on their phones - which is contradictory as the latter actually justifies having privacy/security concerns, by emphasizing how prevalent they are...

It's pretty much the same as trivializing concerns about exploitation of foreign workers, because we all have consumer electronics from countries where such exploitation occurs - therefore we should not be concerned about it...

Stupid logic.

robinph

KyussB wrote: »

You think privacy and security concerns are not relevant, to people who will be downloading the app?

That at a minimum people should not know before they download, that:
1: You need either Android 10, or if on version 8/9 a security update from at least February, to close a bluetooth exploit on your phone.
2: If you're on Android, you need to adjust the Google Location Accuracy setting while using coronavirus apps, so that you're not sending your location information to Google frequently, which undermines the privacy claims made about the apps.

Prominent civil liberties and privacy organizations the world over are criticizing these apps all the time - that's very relevant to people who may be downloading the app.

Those are separate issues to the app.

People should be running the latest updates on their phones, and they should be aware of what information they are sharing with other parties. Neither of those things are anything to do with the app, except for passing your phone number onto HSE in the event of a positive test.

KyussB

They are what civil-liberties/privacy focused institutions all over the world are focusing on as part of apps like this - they absolutely are not separate issues to the app, they are fundamental to what the app requires in order to work.

robinph

KyussB wrote: »

They are what civil-liberties/privacy focused institutions all over the world are focusing on as part of apps like this - they absolutely are not separate issues to the app, they are fundamental to what the app requires in order to work.

Or what you maps app requires to work, or your bus timetable app, or your wireless headphones, or your key finder fobs, or a thousand other apps people use every day.

Those settings are not unique to the Covid19 apps.

KyussB

Civil-liberties/privacy focused institutions the world over, have singled out use of the covid apps and the privacy promises inherent in them, as making these issues especially relevant in the unique context of contact tracing apps - they aren't specifically referencing use of contact tracing apps just for a laugh or just as a random chosen example, those apps are the entire point of these civil liberties institutions referencing them...

So no, you're wrong - it is absolutely relevant to contact tracing apps - and there are innumerable studies and reports from civil-liberties/privacy institutions, specfically referencing these apps, to back that up - cited in this thread...

robinph

KyussB wrote: »

Civil-liberties/privacy focused institutions the world over, have singled out use of the covid apps and the privacy promises inherent in them, as making these issues especially relevant in the unique context of contact tracing apps - they aren't specifically referencing use of contact tracing apps just for a laugh or just as a random chosen example, those apps are the entire point of these civil liberties institutions referencing them...

So no, you're wrong - it is absolutely relevant to contact tracing apps - and there are innumerable studies and reports from civil-liberties/privacy institutions, specfically referencing these apps, to back that up - cited in this thread...

So presumably the Bluetooth issues with versions of Android are not a problem unless you are running the contact tracing app? And anyone with concerns about their location being tracked is perfectly OK using their maps application then if they don't have the contact tracing app installed?

Or are these things an issue regardless of using the contact tracing app, just lots of people are talking about the contact tracing apps so that is being used as the talking point to bring the privacy issues up?

KyussB

robinph wrote: »

So presumably the Bluetooth issues with versions of Android are not a problem unless you are running the contact tracing app? And anyone with concerns about their location being tracked is perfectly OK using their maps application then if they don't have the contact tracing app installed?
...

If you want to argue either of those things, go ahead - don't pretend I did.

You were told the context with which civil-liberties/privacy institutions discussed these privacy issues. Read what is written instead of tediously spinning discussions in circles, by making me repeat myself endlessly.

plodder

robinph wrote: »

Or are these things an issue regardless of using the contact tracing app, just lots of people are talking about the contact tracing apps so that is being used as the talking point to bring the privacy issues up?

Exactly. Not just talking about, but actively encouraging people to install them. So, it is natural that all this attention is happening and it's not necessarily a bad thing either.

Eg, take that "Location Accuracy" mode on Android. I'd say most people have it enabled on their phones already. It's only through the scrutiny caused by these apps that people have noticed what information it sends back to Google. But, that is the case whether you have the app installed or not.

bmc58

I will not download this app because I do not trust this government.Already they are lashing out €16,000 rises to their "Super" junior ministers for balance.Eamon Ryan getting EIGHT advisers all on more than €100,000.The good times are back for these FF/FG/Green chancers.I voted Green but never again.I should have known after the last time.And ye want to tell them everything about your self so they can sell it.Cop on people.

jimmycrackcorm

KyussB wrote: »

You portray people concerned about privacy and security as 'app skeptics' - implying that they are silly to be worried about potential privacy/security issues - yet at exactly the same time, you point out the mass-prevalance of privacy/security invasions, that you assume are almost certainly on their phones - which is contradictory as the latter actually justifies having privacy/security concerns, by emphasizing how prevalent they are...

It's pretty much the same as trivializing concerns about exploitation of foreign workers, because we all have consumer electronics from countries where such exploitation occurs - therefore we should not be concerned about it...

Stupid logic.

Would you not be better off telling everyone to not download any apps at all?
Seems to me that your 'privacy concerns' might be better focused on apps with an actual element of real and intrusive privacy issues.

Maybe you should start preaching about Google maps, point out how it knows when driving where the traffic delays are.

average_runner

bmc58 wrote: »

I will not download this app because I do not trust this government.Already they are lashing out €16,000 rises to their "Super" junior ministers for balance.Eamon Ryan getting EIGHT advisers all on more than €100,000.The good times are back for these FF/FG/Green chancers.I voted Green but never again.I should have known after the last time.And ye want to tell them everything about your self so they can sell it.Cop on people.

Any info they want about you, they already have.



You are using social media right now like

KyussB

plodder wrote: »

Exactly. Not just talking about, but actively encouraging people to install them. So, it is natural that all this attention is happening and it's not necessarily a bad thing either.

Eg, take that "Location Accuracy" mode on Android. I'd say most people have it enabled on their phones already. It's only through the scrutiny caused by these apps that people have noticed what information it sends back to Google. But, that is the case whether you have the app installed or not.

In fact, I don't have that enabled on my phone - and this presents an additional privacy problem - because every single time I turn on location, it asks me to turn on location accuracy, and this nag prompt can never be disabled. It is in fact, extremely easy to eventually accidentally turn it on due to it popping up every time - and then you don't know it's on unless you check in settings.

This is an actual 'dark pattern' UI design, that tries to nag people into turning it on - with no option to disable it forever without nagging.

So, very big reason to be cynical here - that's a deliberate design decision, that they know is skewed towards nagging people into turning on location accuracy - and keeping it on.

KyussB

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Would you not be better off telling everyone to not download any apps at all?
Seems to me that your 'privacy concerns' might be better focused on apps with an actual element of real and intrusive privacy issues.

Maybe you should start preaching about Google maps, point out how it knows when driving where the traffic delays are.

Why would I discuss other apps, in the covid app thread?

I'm not telling anyone to not download apps, either.

Stark

I don't see much discussion of other apps in other threads from you either. What exactly is your agenda here?

ACitizenErased

bmc58 wrote: »

I will not download this app because I do not trust this government.Already they are lashing out €16,000 rises to their "Super" junior ministers for balance.Eamon Ryan getting EIGHT advisers all on more than €100,000.The good times are back for these FF/FG/Green chancers.I voted Green but never again.I should have known after the last time.And ye want to tell them everything about your self so they can sell it.Cop on people.

You realise that the government has nothing to do with this app? it's the HSE.

KyussB

Stark wrote: »

I don't see much discussion of other apps in other threads from you either. What exactly is your agenda here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutery

plodder

KyussB wrote: »

In fact, I don't have that enabled on my phone - and this presents an additional privacy problem - because every single time I turn on location, it asks me to turn on location accuracy, and this nag prompt can never be disabled. It is in fact, extremely easy to eventually accidentally turn it on due to it popping up every time - and then you don't know it's on unless you check in settings.

This is an actual 'dark pattern' UI design, that tries to nag people into turning it on - with no option to disable it forever without nagging.

So, very big reason to be cynical here - that's a deliberate design decision, that they know is skewed towards nagging people into turning on location accuracy - and keeping it on.

'Dark pattern' UI design?

FYI, I just checked and this doesn't happen on my Android 10 phone. I can enable and disable both location, and location accuracy completely independently.

Bog standard Android One.

kippy

Those with privacy concerns around this app specifically really should just throw their mobile phone in the bin.
I don't think people realise that a lot of tracking CAN happen without any app/Bluetooth or GPS enabled in the first instance, never mind when they are enabled and an app built on top of that.
Ultimately the issue is around the processes and procedures used by the organisations with access to the data. Not the tech. If you don't trust these companies (Google, apple, samsung, others, the state) as I said. Throw your phone in the bin.

KyussB

plodder wrote: »

'Dark pattern' UI design?

FYI, I just checked and this doesn't happen on my Android 10 phone. I can enable and disable both location, and location accuracy completely independently.

Bog standard Android One.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern

Happens on my phone, and it's easy to find loads of people who've experienced the same nag screen online with a short Google. Location accuracy can be disabled, but it will nag every time location is turned on.