Will you download the contact tracing app?

robinph

KyussB wrote: »

Doesn't matter what the question was about...

It kind of does if you are claiming to provide an answer to it, but in the process answer something completely different that hadn't been asked. Hence I pointed out that you were talking about something irrelevant, answered the question which had been actually asked, yet you keep coming back trying to bring up an unrelated and unasked for answer.

fly_agaric

KyussB wrote:

Well, I can't discuss the technical details further

KyussB wrote:

and can't discuss now...

KyussB wrote:

I'm not really able to discuss it in the thread anymore

KyussB wrote:

Not able to discuss any of that in the thread now, but I would otherwise

Dear me, you are very hard done by.:(

Hasn't hampered your fear, uncertainty and doubt campaign against this application. Now you also can drop dark hints about secrets revealed only by the links you post up repeatedly + complain how you are being gagged, so well played there.

Application is at well over 1m registrations now , so looks like the public are not listening and if you took it to more appropriate technical fora on this website even fewer eyeballs would see your efforts.

KyussB

robinph wrote: »

It kind of does if you are claiming to provide an answer to it, but in the process answer something completely different that hadn't been asked. Hence I pointed out that you were talking about something irrelevant, answered the question which had been actually asked, yet you keep coming back trying to bring up an unrelated and unasked for answer.

You seem to deliberately misrepresent what I say, as a wind-up to drive things off topic and bring further mod action on me or something...

I answered that poster in this post - it's a valid answer to the poster, referencing the first sentence. I'm not interested in a stupid meta-discussion about what I did and didn't say, when you've a track record of regularly lying about stuff I've said.

This type of wind-up leaves me with very few options - 1: Ignore it and let everything I've said be misrepresented/smeared (other posters will/do get convinced of such smears), 2: Report you for constant wind-ups/misrepresentations and know fuck all will be done, that it's more likely to come back on me instead (I know this from past experience with similar situations), 3: Keep on rebutting the smears/misrepresentations, so they don't stick, until you and others make up enough excuses to ding me with reports until there's further mod action against me...Lose-lose options all around.

I've been very clear: I don't want to be replying to you further. I've said that maybe half a dozen times already. Don't force me to reply by lying about what I've said again, as I have to correct smears like that.

KyussB

fly_agaric wrote: »

Dear me, you are very hard done by.:(

Hasn't hampered your fear, uncertainty and doubt campaign against this application. Now you also can drop dark hints about secrets revealed only by the links you post up repeatedly + complain how you are being gagged, so well played there.

Application is at well over 1m registrations now , so looks like the public are not listening and if you took it to more appropriate technical fora on this website even fewer eyeballs would see your efforts.

I've kept the technical discussion out of it, since told to.

Privacy/security concerns that the Electronic Frontier Foundation (one of the most well known digital-rights-focused civil liberties institutions) and cybersecurity firms have expressed, are perfectly valid to link to, and people who are interested in the app have a right to know - there is nothing FUD-based or 'secret' about their concerns - the only FUD there is, is the manner through which security/privacy concerns are downplayed.

robinph

KyussB wrote: »

I've kept the technical discussion out of it, since told to.

Well you are claiming to, yet every posts just keeps on bringing it back up again. For someone so insistent on not talking about a topic you are doing a hell of a lot of talking about that topic.

Do you have anything to say on the merits of the actual app itself? If it will do what it's hoped it will do? If there will be enough people who install it? If there will be enough people with it still installed in 3 months time when it could be crucial in nipping a new outbreak in the bud when people have otherwise relaxed most of their social distancing?

JazzyJ

On my phone if I go into the exposure checks part of the application, for each check "the number of keys" value for me is always 0. Is this correct?

I would have thought that this is the keys of recent close contacts? Or is it something else? I've definitely had close contact with people who are running the app and theirs are showing 0 for this also.

robinph

JazzyJ wrote: »

On my phone if I go into the exposure checks part of the application, for each check "the number of keys" value for me is always 0. Is this correct?

I would have thought that this is the keys of recent close contacts? Or is it something else? I've definitely had close contact with people who are running the app and theirs are showing 0 for this also.

From the slightly different explanation on the German app it appears that stat is how many people who you have had contact with who have since tested positive.

Jim_Hodge

JazzyJ wrote: »

On my phone if I go into the exposure checks part of the application, for each check "the number of keys" value for me is always 0. Is this correct?

I would have thought that this is the keys of recent close contacts? Or is it something else? I've definitely had close contact with people who are running the app and theirs are showing 0 for this also.

Surely it's contacts with positive cases not every contact with every person.

KyussB

robinph wrote: »

Well you are claiming to, yet every posts just keeps on bringing it back up again. For someone so insistent on not talking about a topic you are doing a hell of a lot of talking about that topic.

Do you have anything to say on the merits of the actual app itself? If it will do what it's hoped it will do? If there will be enough people who install it? If there will be enough people with it still installed in 3 months time when it could be crucial in nipping a new outbreak in the bud when people have otherwise relaxed most of their social distancing?

I haven't discussed anything technical with the app since told not to - and that wasn't in reply to you either - once again you're lying about the content of my posts.

The only reason I'm still replying in the thread is because of you lying about the contents of my posts - and you insist on replying to me to do this once again, even when I am replying to someone else, not you.

I have been telling you more than half a dozen times, I don't want to be replying to you - you lie about the contents of my posts every time you reply to or reference me.

I know you are trying to goad me into receiving fresh mod action, by forcing me to reply to correct misrepresentations/lies about my posts - and coming from a mod on a different subforum, it's pretty suspect/shitty behaviour.

I don't want to reply to you in this thread again. You don't want me posting in the thread. So don't reply to me or misrepresent my posts, in order to elicit another reply from me correcting that.
I am in a lose-lose situation here, where I am either going to be smeared, or dragged into mod action...

robinph

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Surely it's contacts with positive cases not every contact with every person.

Yes, only positive cases are relevant, but it's not clear how they might be calculating the risk from that.

It could count 15 minutes with one person who test positive as one instance and low risk, but if you happen to sat next to the same person for 2hrs in the cinema it could count it as 8 contacts with positive people and rank it high risk although it was still just the same person. Or if you spend half an hour up the pub with 4 people who then all test positive is that counted the same as one person for two hours.

plodder

JazzyJ wrote: »

On my phone if I go into the exposure checks part of the application, for each check "the number of keys" value for me is always 0. Is this correct?

I would have thought that this is the keys of recent close contacts? Or is it something else? I've definitely had close contact with people who are running the app and theirs are showing 0 for this also.

I don't see that in my app. Are you sure it's the Irish Covid check app you are using? Could you share a screenshot?

As regards technical discussions about the security of this app, there is an "Information Security" forum at:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=24

maybe that is the right place to discuss it?

GarIT

JazzyJ wrote: »

On my phone if I go into the exposure checks part of the application, for each check "the number of keys" value for me is always 0. Is this correct?

I would have thought that this is the keys of recent close contacts? Or is it something else? I've definitely had close contact with people who are running the app and theirs are showing 0 for this also.

Mine is also showing 0 keys 0 matches.

fly_agaric

plodder wrote: »

I don't see that in my app. Are you sure it's the Irish Covid check app you are using? Could you share a screenshot?

I think it is in the underlying Google "Exposure Notification" service rather than in the HSE Covid application where you can see this stuff. At least that is where I can see it on my (Android) phone. It shows "exposure checks" with a time for each and a count of "keys" and "matches".

What it means I don't know (or care very much to be honest...)
You'd expect a "match" indicates you've stored the key of someone who has had a positive test + uploaded keys (not good).
Wonder if anyone with application installed has tested positive + uploaded keys yet (number of cases each day is quite low)?

JazzyJ

robinph wrote: »

From the slightly different explanation on the German app it appears that stat is how many people who you have had contact with who have since tested positive.

I would have thought that positive contacts would be the "number of matches" value?

JazzyJ

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think it is in the underlying Google "Exposure Notification" service rather than in the HSE Covid application where you can see this stuff.

Yes, that's where it is but you can get to it through the app under Settings > Contact Tracing > Update Settings

robinph

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think it is in the underlying Google "Exposure Notification" service rather than in the HSE Covid application where you can see this stuff. At least that is where I can see it on my (Android) phone. It shows "exposure checks" with a time for each and a count of "keys" and "matches".

What it means I don't know (or care very much to be honest...)
You'd expect a "match" indicates you've stored the key of someone who has had a positive test + uploaded keys (not good).
Wonder if anyone with application installed has tested positive + uploaded keys yet (number of cases each day is quite low)?

Just found that on mine in the Google settings and its showing 46 as the number of Exposure Checks.

I'd be 99.99999% certain that my phone hasn't been within range of anyone else running any app over the last couple of days so think that has to just mean when it most recently downloaded the data from the central database rather than any phones you've connected to.

plodder

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think it is in the underlying Google "Exposure Notification" service rather than in the HSE Covid application where you can see this stuff. At least that is where I can see it on my (Android) phone. It shows "exposure checks" with a time for each and a count of "keys" and "matches".

What it means I don't know (or care very much to be honest...)
You'd expect a "match" indicates you've stored the key of someone who has had a positive test + uploaded keys (not good).
Wonder if anyone with application installed has tested positive + uploaded keys yet (number of cases each day is quite low)?

Okay, I see that now. Interesting though it's not clear what it means. I see you can delete the "random IDs" through this interface, which is not a good idea..

fly_agaric

JazzyJ wrote: »

Yes, that's where it is but you can get to it through the app under Settings > Contact Tracing > Update Settings

Sorry - didn't realise that went to the same place, thanks.

plodder wrote:

Okay, I see that now. Interesting though it's not clear what it means. I see you can delete the "random IDs" through this interface, which is not a good idea..

No I wouldn't think so...have not been "messing" with the application much in case I'd disturb something or turn something off by accident.

robinph wrote: »

Just found that on mine in the Google settings and its showing 46 as the number of Exposure Checks.

I'd be 99.99999% certain that my phone hasn't been within range of anyone else running any app over the last couple of days so think that has to just mean when it most recently downloaded the data from the central database rather than any phones you've connected to.

Yes, I think that is what it is.

plodder

robinph wrote: »

Just found that on mine in the Google settings and its showing 46 as the number of Exposure Checks.

I'd be 99.99999% certain that my phone hasn't been within range of anyone else running any app over the last couple of days so think that has to just mean when it most recently downloaded the data from the central database rather than any phones you've connected to.

Yes, I think that is the number of times your phone has checked the database of "contacts". My phone is saying 9 times in the last 14 days. Why it is 46 times for you though I don't understand ....

robinph

plodder wrote: »

Yes, I think that is the number of times your phone has checked the database of "contacts". My phone is saying 9 times in the last 14 days. Why it is 46 times for you though I don't understand ....

Think it's just because I'd been messing about with two apps to see if they would break each other. They don't, just only one can be active at a time. Guess they were polling additional times when I switched between them, otherwise it looks like they were checking twice a day around 9am/ 9pm.

robinph

Not relevant just yet, but will be in the future when we can travel again. From my small bit of messing around it looks like the ids that you collect from other phones are stored on your phone separate from the individual apps, so it shouldn't matter if someone if running an app from another country when you are sat next to them on the plane (you can keep Bluetooth turned on on planes) as you'll still share contact codes.

If you happened to get sick and have a test while travelling though you would need to use the local app for that country to be able to upload your codes the phone has generated. It looked like the German app for example had the option to enter codes from an Irish positive test, but on looking again its a different format of code that you'd be given.

Would be useful to know if the uploaded codes on having a positive test went to somewhere which was shared internationally though. No use if you fly to another country, get sick, get a test upload your codes but then the people on the air link bus on the way to the airport the day before then don't get notified.

plodder

PopTarts wrote: »

I keep getting a notification:

Exposure Notifications Region Changed
COVID 19 Exposure Notifications may not be supported by “COVID Tracker Ireland” in this region. You should confirm which app you are using in settings.

Anyone know reasoning? Based Dublin.

My wife just got this message on her iphone. No reason for it to happen. I assume it's a bug, possibly in iOS rather than the app.

<edit> Though we were in Belfast yesterday. I wonder if that might have triggered it......

robinph

plodder wrote: »

My wife just got this message on her iphone. No reason for it to happen. I assume it's a bug, possibly in iOS rather than the app.

<edit> Though we were in Belfast yesterday. I wonder if that might have triggered it......

I didn't get those notifications from further away from HSE responsibilities.

Edit: Try checking a weather app when it gives the message and see if it thinks you are somewhere odd.

Stark

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hse-app-detects-its-first-covid-19-cases-1010694.html

Amazing!

harringtonp

This may well be answered elsewhere in thread but don't want to plough through it all.

When you get a notification you have been in close contact with someone who tested positive, what happens next ? Is this documented anywhere ? Do you get a call and if so what is the standard advice and options put in front of you ?

Stark

harringtonp wrote: »

This may well be answered elsewhere in thread but don't want to plough through it all.

When you get a notification you have been in close contact with someone who tested positive, what happens next ? Is this documented anywhere ? Do you get a call and if so what is the standard advice and options put in front of you ?

There's an option to enter a phone number in the app and they can call you. For the sake of anonymity, that bit is optional though. If you omit your phone number, you'll get a notification and a number to ring the HSE on.

wonski

plodder wrote: »

My wife just got this message on her iphone. No reason for it to happen. I assume it's a bug, possibly in iOS rather than the app.

<edit> Though we were in Belfast yesterday. I wonder if that might have triggered it......

Was driving through the North today with android app and have no issues with it nor any notifications.

harringtonp

Stark wrote: »

There's an option to enter a phone number in the app and they can call you. For the sake of anonymity, that bit is optional though. If you omit your phone number, you'll get a notification and a number to ring the HSE on.

OK. So either way you are made aware. And what happens in that conversation with the HSE ? I presume there is a standard procedure laid out rather than the contract tracer making it up as he goes along.

plodder

wonski wrote: »

Was driving through the North today with android app and have no issues with it nor any notifications.

Yes, I was the same with Android too. It may be an Apple/iOS issue only.

mugsymugsy

harringtonp wrote: »

OK. So either way you are made aware. And what happens in that conversation with the HSE ? I presume there is a standard procedure laid out rather than the contract tracer making it up as he goes along.

Standard procedure and ideally get you scheduled for a test at one of the hse test centres around the country

I heard of scam fake emails and texts going around.