Relaxation of restrictions Part II

road_high

poteen wrote: »

Complete nonsense talk. I'd imagine from September onwards will start seeing gatherings. Lunatics talking about waiting for a vaccine. The wind is gone out of this lockdown business. The world is reopening but a minority would like to believe the apocalypse narrative.

And sadly we are stuck in a nanny state that is it's epicentre. Lot of people seem happy enough to continue like this- once the €350 per week goes on and the wage supports then they don't seem to be perturbed...interested to know the implications for social welfare/pensions, public sector pay etc going forward.
No one bar Ivan Yates is talking about these.

Salty

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Your point about how people deal with colds and flu is a good one as well. How many times has someone in work arrived with a cold and given it to the office?
Because of work pressure and so on.

It must also be considered that there are lots of people who simply can't afford to stay at home and not work. Most businesses don't have a sick pay scheme, and the government scheme only kicks in after 3 days (I think? Could be wrong) and is buttons in comparison to what a lot of people would normally earn. I wonder if this is something which needs to be changed. People need to be incentivised to stay at home if they are genuinely ill, not financially punished by their employer or forced to use their annual leave.

JRant

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Are you sure that what he said?

Really sure? Or have you just heard something with no detail and run with it?

No, he definitely said those things.

ChelseaRentBoy

hmmm wrote: »

This is a brand new virus, we don't know which measures are safe to introduce and which are not.

Let Italy and Sweden experiment with the health of their citizens. Our government is taking a more cautious approach. If the new incoming government wants to gamble with our health, let's see their proposal.

Absolutely. Iv'e been critical of this government at times but they are playing a blinder on this thus far. Let's see how other countries fair with their approach and we'll go from there.

Penfailed

JRant wrote: »

That's my point. I know a good few lads that travel down daily for work. However, we can't have these restrictions for the next 4 months and allow people e get the country at will without a strict 2 weeks of quarantine. It's setting us up to fail.

What about someone living in the south that works in the north?

lawrencesummers

JRant wrote: »

No, he definitely said those things.

And nothing else? That was it??

The schools are opening a day a week?

Really.

road_high

setanta1984 wrote: »

I felt a bit better after seeing the document last night, but thinking about it more, the more ludicrous the proposals are.

We're going to have the farcical situation at the start of June of watching Italy and Spain (in addition to all the other smaller countries), the countries where we were shown images of the apocalypse in hospitals etc. on the news with their bars, restaurants, museums, cinemas and theatres opening and attempting to get their lives working again, and here we'll be still unable to go more than 5km from home or see anyone?

How on earth can that be justified? What is so different here? It's completely backward relative to the impact on the respective countries.
Is the country really going to watch this on the news and think we're happy to wait another 2 and half months to get there?

I felt worse- in fact I was furious. The timelines are ridiculously long and cautious- all nanny state level stuff with not a modicum of thought for the economy or anyone's livelihood. Small business depending on re-opening soon must be at the end of their tether now.
It's clear at Cabinet level any voice of reason has been railroaded over by Leo/Harris and their cabal in NPHET. Shocking stuff, we will pay dearly for.

Ellie1988

Tried to go into Phoenix park for a walk there around 2 o'clock (I live beside it). Myself and others being turned away by the guards..."park is closed at the moment" 🙄

joseywhales

road_high wrote: »

And sadly we are stuck in a nanny state that is it's epicentre. Lot of people seem happy enough to continue like this- once the €350 per week goes on and the wage supports then they don't seem to be purported...interested to know the implications for social welfare/pensions, public sector pay etc going forward.
No one bar Ivan Yates is talking about these.

Lockdown does not affect everyone equally.

I mean we are not all on the dole, I have 6 siblings all working from home and I work for a company that currently has about 3000 working from home. No change whatsoever in terms of income for any of us. It's not total job loses. Now give it two years, I may come under pressure, if we have a total market collapse for example.

Stark

joseywhales wrote: »

I like this, we are now trying to bargain with a virus, that is not even living let alone concious. The virus will infect and kill irrespective how long we have been on lockdown. The only way I am confident the death toll wont spike on total restriction relaxation is if we can prove that 30%+ people have already been infected. Then at least it will not be as deadly as previously imagined and more people will be resistant to re-infection. Nothing has changed in the past two months.

They need adequate testing and contact tracing in place. (As well as expecting businesses to adapt to physical distancing).

It looks like **** all has been done here and that's why they can't lift restrictions.

scamalert

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Let Italy and Sweden experiment with a functioning economic policy to maintain health and social standards in the future.
Meanwhile, when we dont have funds to provide a healthcare service by September we can wonder if the cautious approach was worth it, within 5km of our homes of course

agree ^
I wonder how many people aside covid, are put of from medical checkups care, dentist needs other appointments that affects peoples lives and could possibly result in worse in coming years then entire BS pouring cash into covid lockdown ೾st. as virus is rampant under lockdown do some really think once government says its ok to be out and about it will be gone, as seems its 2-3 weeks to get thousands cases easily. but sure lets put everything off for couple more months until government negotiates with covid to slow down, once easing is started :cool:

VonLuck

Ellie1988 wrote: »

Tried to go into Phoenix park for a walk there around 2 o'clock (I live beside it). Myself and others being turned away by the guards..."park is closed at the moment" ��

Were you driving or walking? Seems odd that the park would be closed to foot traffic.

JRant

road_high wrote: »

And sadly we are stuck in a nanny state that is it's epicentre. Lot of people seem happy enough to continue like this- once the €350 per week goes on and the wage supports then they don't seem to be purported...interested to know the implications for social welfare/pensions, public sector pay etc going forward.
No one bar Ivan Yates is talking about these.

I'd say welfare, pensions and public sector pay will remain untouched. USC and PRSI will be significantly increased, VAT up by 2/4% and probably a 5% increase on income tax. All of which will be brought in on a "temporary" basis and take a decade to decline. That's me being optimistic as well.
If they keep the level of restrictions going till mid August then all bets are off and welfare, pensions and public sector pay will need to be drastically reduced.

road_high

joseywhales wrote: »

Lockdown does not affect everyone equally.

I mean we are not all on the dole, I have 6 siblings all working from home and I work for a company that currently has about 3000 working from home. No change whatsoever in terms of income for any of us. It's not total job loses. Now give it two years, I may come under pressure, if we have a total market collapse for example.

Oh I'm the same. In a technical management role with a chemical company, I already worked from home anyhow and have a good salary etc- so long as the markets don't completely collapse and our company isn't forced under I should be fine (like you say though, anything is possible).
But it's those at the lower rungs in vulnerable sectors that are really suffering.

redarmy

Ellie1988 wrote: »

Tried to go into Phoenix park for a walk there around 2 o'clock (I live beside it). Myself and others being turned away by the guards..."park is closed at the moment" ��

Gemma O'Doherty
@gemmaod1
· 18h
A public gathering is taking place in the Phoenix Park tomorrow in conjunction with the worldwide #MarchForFreedom. Meeting point: Parkgate St at 2pm Flag of Ireland #LockdownIreland #COVID19Ireland #MayDay

JRant

Penfailed wrote: »

What about someone living in the south that works in the north?

Well, if you leave this state and re-enter the same rules should apply. Unless NI implement identical practices it's not even remotely workable.

lawrencesummers

redarmy wrote: »

Gemma O'Doherty
@gemmaod1
· 18h
A public gathering is taking place in the Phoenix Park tomorrow in conjunction with the worldwide #MarchForFreedom. Meeting point: Parkgate St at 2pm Flag of Ireland #LockdownIreland #COVID19Ireland #MayDay

Hopefully the Gardaí dust off the riot gear.

iamwhoiam

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And nothing else? That was it??

The schools are opening a day a week?

Really.

No he didn’t say it at all . What he said was that he could see that maybe schools could open one day a week . Not that they would open

Snugglebunnies

I find it interesting that during these restrictions child access agreements are legally allowed go ahead. A child can be moved between two households over any distance, and no social distancing is needed in either household.

Its strange that this is allowed but under no other circumstances are people allowed visit anybody else's house.

I know access can been seen as essential but surely it's no less risky than other interaction between households that's currently banned.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just a topic I have come across online.

FintanMcluskey

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Hopefully the Gardaí dust off the riot gear.

This is what we need, Gardai in riot gear for whats essentially a pretty peaceful demonstration albeit lead by a bit of a loon.
Every democratic right has been removed and the unfortunate issue is that for evermore those democratic rights can be easily removed in the name of public health.

Personally I think this virus is absolutely not a justification of the removal of those rights. This virus is mostly lethal to those near the end of life and to imprison and restrict the healthy for 6 months is borderline tyranny, especially so, when other counties will have restrictions lifted months earlier

robbiezero

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The arbitrary 2km, 5km, 20km then only on the 20th of July can we "travel outside our region" restrictions are farcical.

I have family 200km away. What difference does it make if I travel 20km alone in a car vs 200km?

The original idea behind the 2km was to stop people crowding the beaches / beauty spots. Just ****ing close them then. Have the guards on checkpoints in these popular areas rather than scattered around the country or have legislation to fine people heavily if are in an area for leisure if they don't live there.

Spot on. I think they have been a bit naive here. Instead of lifting it and providing guidelines and controlling the situation, they have left it be a free for all, which I think a large amount will ignore very shortly.

I mean they could allow it with some guidelines for example:
Only to visit parents/grandparents unless absolutely essential.
One visitor/household at a time.
Get your fuel/provisions in your local area, bring your own tea and biscuits.
everyone to wear masks/gloves.
remain outside
use lots of hand sanitizer
max 3 hours stay

blah blah blah.

Stark

robbiezero wrote: »

Spot on. I think they have been a bit naive here. Instead of lifting it and providing guidelines and controlling the situation, they have left it be a free for all, which I think a large amount will ignore very shortly.

I mean they could allow it with some guidelines for example:
Only to visit parents/grandparents unless absolutely essential.
One visitor/household at a time.
Get your fuel/provisions in your local area, bring your own tea and biscuits.
everyone to wear masks/gloves.
remain outside
use lots of hand sanitizer
max 3 hours stay

blah blah blah.

This is what we have to look forward to July 20th. Then August 10th it's a free for all with pubs, concerts and other superspreader activities

I mean screw the pubs, I'd be happier to not see the inside of a pub until we have a vaccine and have a faster schedule for seeing friends/family in safer settings.

JPCN1

rob316 wrote: »

Thats the crux of it our health system is so poor we have to shut down the country for 6 months. Shocking really.

Not content with making a balls of the public system they're doing the same with the private now. Mr Reid current head of the HSE was last employed as Chief Exec of, eh, Fingal Co. co.

Diarmuid

hmmm wrote: »

Let Italy and Sweden experiment with the health of their citizens. Our government is taking a more cautious approach. If the new incoming government wants to gamble with our health, let's see their proposal.

Let's be clear. Ireland is experimenting with their citizens too. Just a different experiment. Our experiment is shutting society down for months on end.

robbiezero

joseywhales wrote: »

Lockdown does not affect everyone equally.

I mean we are not all on the dole, I have 6 siblings all working from home and I work for a company that currently has about 3000 working from home. No change whatsoever in terms of income for any of us. It's not total job loses. Now give it two years, I may come under pressure, if we have a total market collapse for example.

Spot on. I work in IT and am working from home. Missus is a teacher. No impact on us economically so far, probably even a positive impact and both parents families are healthy and doing well. I am thankful that we have been lucky so far. It is not the case for quite a few people.

Really gets on my wick to see posters on here berating people who are upset and struggling, telling them to cop on and grow up etc. The absolute arrogance and pig-ignorance of it.

FintanMcluskey

Diarmuid wrote: »

Let's be clear. Ireland is experimenting with their citizens too. Just a different experiment. Our experiment is shutting society down for months on end.

Absolutely excellent post. It is exactly that, an experiment in complete total inaction. Complete paralysis of the economy for an unknown time period. I said before Friday they will extend the restrictions and blame testing. I have no faith anything will change on the 18th, the cop out will be testing until 0 deaths

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Its getting tiresome this bulls##t of new normal.
Life is going to continue when this nursing home virus gets numbers under control regardless of a vaccine or not.
We may need to head for the continent though for large gatherings as you suggest until the police state here gets called to heel

Tiresome bullsh1t is calling this place a police state.

road_high

JRant wrote: »

I'd say welfare, pensions and public sector pay will remain untouched. USC and PRSI will be significantly increased, VAT up by 2/4% and probably a 5% increase on income tax. All of which will be brought in on a "temporary" basis and take a decade to decline. That's me being optimistic as well.
If they keep the level of restrictions going till mid August then all bets are off and welfare, pensions and public sector pay will need to be drastically reduced.

I don't- they are far the biggest proportion of spending now with Health- it's not possible to re balance the budget going forward without cuts, and severe ones. Not possible to raise tax on 0 economic activity elsewhere.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This is what we need, Gardai in riot gear for whats essentially a pretty peaceful demonstration albeit lead by a bit of a loon.
Every democratic right has been removed and the unfortunate issue is that for evermore those democratic rights can be easily removed in the name of public health.

Personally I think this virus is absolutely not a justification of the removal of those rights. This virus is mostly lethal to those near the end of life and to imprison and restrict the healthy for 6 months is borderline tyranny, especially so, when other counties will have restrictions lifted months earlier

Relax, he doen't mean it. He's just gone seven weeks without seeing any hippes getting beaten and he needs his violence fix.

That said, some people haven't gotten over the fact that te balck and tans were scrapped...

FintanMcluskey

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That said, some people haven't gotten over the fact that te balck and tans were scrapped...

Haha. If the auxiliaries were around today they would be welcomed with clapping it seems