Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

ricero

I look forward to the incoming ****storm. Shame on Fine Gael and the cowardly Joe McHugh for opening up this can of worms.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Form A and Form B relevant to the teacher, that's it as far as I can see.

The criteria to be applied by each teacher is broad enuf. You can use past school results, if you wish, but if you think they're not relevant (new teacher, better student cohort, you can ignore etc)

Professional judgement is key with some evidence to support it.

jayo76

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

It is NO different to the first set of guidlines from my reading of it

Step 1 - give every student in your class a mark based on past data but not limited to past data and professional judgement on how the Student would have done in June.
Step 2 - rank the students in your class from 1-24 or whatever
Step 3 - sit down with the other teachers of the other LC classes in your subject and rank them from 1-72 or whatever
Step 4 - Principal signs off

According to the document is the ranking by each individual class within a subject and not across the whole year group? So 1-24 for each of 3 groups as opposed to 1-72?

Bobtheman

Give your students benefit of the doubt. Because we all know this system will vary wildly from school to school.
Prisoners dilemma my friend.
Are mock results excluded ??

jimmytwotimes 2013

jayo76 wrote: »

According to the document is the ranking by each individual class within a subject and not across the whole year group? So 1-24 for each of 3 groups as opposed to 1-72?

Yeah, just your class

Bobtheman

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Form A and Form B relevant to the teacher, that's it as far as I can see.

The criteria to be applied by each teacher is broad enuf. You can use past school results, if you wish, but if you think they're not relevant (new teacher, better student cohort, you can ignore etc)

Professional judgement is key with some evidence to support it.

That's pretty vague. You don't have to show the evidence or could easily be created. So it's a useless term- professional in this case. If you had been told, keep detailed records / student progress reports and didn't - then you could be accused of not being professional- but you weren't asked to. So what the hell is professional in this case ??

km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

Give your students benefit of the doubt. Because we all know this system will vary wildly from school to school.
Prisoners dilemma my friend.
Are mock results excluded ??

“Treat them with caution “

ethical

What the Hell is going on......ASTI sought legal advice and are not satisfied that the teacher is 100% covered.
TUI said ,alright Jack ,everything is fine.


How could this be,could they not bloody talk to each other!

jimmytwotimes 2013

Bobtheman wrote: »

Give your students benefit of the doubt. Because we all know this system will vary wildly from school to school.
Prisoners dilemma my friend.
Are mock results excluded ??

Mock results can be disregarded as unreliable if you want or as a small part of continued student performance

Inspector Coptoor

jayo76 wrote: »

According to the document is the ranking by each individual class within a subject and not across the whole year group? So 1-24 for each of 3 groups as opposed to 1-72?

Wasn’t my initial reading.

Will have to read it again.

km79

I will have to make at least two round trips of an hour and a half to the school due to not being able to complete these digitally FFS

Icsics

The JMB don’t seem too happy either, extract from bulletin issued to principals
‘The Department intends that an online training module will be made available to support relevant school personnel in applying the guidelines. School management is therefore advised to await the enhanced clarification and shared understanding this online CPD will provide, before implementing key stages of the process.
That said, some initial preparatory tasks could be undertaken at this stage, including:‘

jprender

Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »

You make a valid point, no doubt.
I’m a great man for correcting and giving written feedback , but utterly hopeless at keeping ‘records’ of this.

The word that keeps being repeated in the new guidelines is EVIDENCE. The only ‘evidence’ I have are the 3 House exams and the pre - exams on the school’s VSware system.

I don’t see much wriggle room in how I can deviate from the recorded evidence . ie. the results.

My mocks were marked far too generously and erratically by a friend of a friend.This has caused a headache for me now.

Dad: What did ya get in the pre ?
Daughter : 77%
Dad : And he gave ya a bloody H4??

I don’t see anything in these guidelines that allow us a measure of professional judgment.

It cleverly ‘suggests’ we do, but on closer inspection, we don’t. It’s about the tangible evidence.

To address your inflation argument, I will refer to an actual example of a student I have.

Christmas 18 - 61%
Summer. 19 - 58%
Christmas. 19 - 56%
Pre Exam. - 64%

I can’t ( as much as I’d like to ) give this girl a H3. There is no evidence’ to suggest she is capable of it, or deserves it.

It’s a bit of a mess.

Surely in this example the student gets at most a H4 ??

Maybe I’m missing something, but why would a H3 even be considered ?

Blondini

km79 wrote: »

I will have to make at least two round trips of an hour and a half to the school due to not being able to complete these digitally FFS

Really, that's your problem with all this. FFS.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Form filling has never been made seem so convoluted

km79

Blondini wrote: »

Really, that's your problem with all this. FFS.

I have MANY problems with it hence my many posts on the matter
However
This is one that is just needless and so even more annoying
We are in the middle of a pandemic obviously
But we can’t sign the forms digitally ? And they must be printed ? A lot is don’t have access to printers
So a lot of teachers will now have to congregate at schools
Where we have access to one printer/copier in a tiny room

Why ?
I signed contracts for a property purchase digitally a few weeks ago.
But I can’t sign my name to this ?

Blondini

I'm worried about the term 'evidence'.

Are mere results recorded in my teachers journal 'evidence' without the students accompanying scripts?

km79

Sigh after hours
Why did I bother

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Mock results can be disregarded as unreliable if you want or as a small part of continued student performance

Or as a big part.It’s up to yourself.Judging from the range of opinions, the whole thing is an a la carte buffet

I can understand the need for the alignment meetings now - It’s to prevent Mr.Vain or Ms.Ambitious from pulling the pi$$ with 10 H1s.

rainbowtrout

jprender wrote: »

Surely in this example the student gets at most a H4 ??

Maybe I’m missing something, but why would a H3 even be considered ?

Because students typically improve from their mocks. Some don't but the majority manage to get their arses in gear and improve between February and June. So it is conceivable that this student might pull out a H3 on the day.

mirrorwall14

Blondini wrote: »

I'm worried about the term 'evidence.

Are mere results recorded in my teachers journal evidence without the students accompanying scripts?

For sixth year most of my work is commented on their Manuscripts/handouts and handed straight back. I don’t have Written records much beyond the three sets of vsware reports this year And I didn’t teach the group last year. Who knows

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

jprender wrote: »

Surely in this example the student gets at most a H4 ??

Maybe I’m missing something, but why would a H3 even be considered ?

I was responding to a poster who advocated inflating grades by 15%

rainbowtrout

Blondini wrote: »

I'm worried about the term 'evidence'.

Are mere results recorded in my teachers journal 'evidence' without the students accompanying scripts?

Yes, it says somewhere in that document that if students have some of the evidence you're not allowed contact them to get it.

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

For sixth year most of my work is commented on their Manuscripts/handouts and handed straight back. I don’t have Written records much beyond the three sets of vsware reports this year And I didn’t teach the group last year. Who knows

r93kaey5p2izun

jprender wrote: »

Surely in this example the student gets at most a H4 ??

Maybe I’m missing something, but why would a H3 even be considered ?

It would depend on the individual student. In my experience the vast majority of students with those results would achieve at least a H3. Often better.

jprender

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because students typically improve from their mocks. Some don't but the majority manage to get their arses in gear and improve between February and June. So it is conceivable that this student might pull out a H3 on the day.

Surely that would be a huge improvement considering the mocks were marked too easy.

Before the mocks, they were on a downward trend and were on a high H5.

In my opinion, a H3 is not achievable based on “evidence”.

Blondini

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

For sixth year most of my work is commented on their Manuscripts/handouts and handed straight back. I don’t have Written records much beyond the three sets of vsware reports this year And I didn’t teach the group last year. Who knows

And, students must not be contacted to retrieve such evidence. Additionally, according to GDPR, any evidence with the students name must be only used for specified purpose, so realistically, you may have already shredded those scripts.

r93kaey5p2izun

jprender wrote: »

Surely that would be a huge improvement considering the mocks were marked too easy.

Before the mocks, they were on a downward trend and were on a high H5.

In my opinion, a H3 is not achievable based on “evidence”.

What subject do you teach?

Blondini

km79 wrote: »

Sigh after hours
Why did I bother

Sigh, practical subject 'teacher' with a simple pass degree;
Why did I bother?

Am I doing this right

jprender

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

What subject do you teach?

Do I need to teach to offer an opinion ?

I’m an accountant with a postgrad in statistics, so things like this interest me.

An interested observer, that is all.