Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

TheValeyard

Icsics wrote: »

Asti president on news advising members not to cooperate with guidelines, indemnity not up to scratch

Be interesting to hear more information about this.

Treppen

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I have some experience of the Athena tracker and I’m very dubious of its usefulness.
Far be it from tracking students - I see it being used as a way to track the “value added” a teacher brings.


Schools are going to have different local arrangements for JC grades.
Thankfully we are not using predicted grades as this would set a precedent.
We are using a combination of past results, engagement since March 12th and a final exam in May, albeit an online one of little value as it will be very easy to cheat.

Commercial trackers are forbidden

Accordingly, the calculated grades model developed by the Department cannot ensure fairness if statistical or algorithmic models – such as those offered by commercial companies – are used in the course of generating data at school level and their use must be avoided.

km79

Is there a timeline anywhere in those 40 pages........

Icsics

Tui happy with indemnity

TheValeyard

Icsics wrote: »

Tui happy with indemnity

Why cant the unions ever be in unison.

Treppen

Looks like subject studied outside school can be accepted from either a registered or unregistered teacher as long as the principal concurs on the grade.

Pg. 29

km79

The school printers are going to be under serious pressure......ludicrous that they will not accept digital signatures on them

jayo76

End of news there gives the recap heading as just ASTI advises members not to engage in calculated grades process, no mention in the recap that the advice is because legal advice to ASTI is that indemnity needs more work. Lack of balance would drive you mad.

km79

jayo76 wrote: »

End of news there gives the recap heading as just ASTI advises members not to engage in calculated grades process, no mention in the recap that the advice is because legal advice to ASTI is that indemnity needs more work. Lack of balance would drive you mad.

Well there is nothing on their website!

jayo76

km79 wrote: »

Well there is nothing on their website!

I wouldnt be the ASTI's Presidents biggest fan but I did think that she put it very clearly tonight on news that they just want total clarity on the indemnity before they can ask members to engage?

Bobtheman

Nothing I see in my quick perusal deals with my issue.
Teacher A keeps brilliant records.Teacher B doesn't.
Thus there will be variance and guess work.
Give your students huge benefit of the doubt because we ain't trained for this. Time traveling devices are needed.
So call it what you like - inflate or benefit but do it.

km79

jayo76 wrote: »

I wouldnt be the ASTI's Presidents biggest fan but I did think that she put it very clearly tonight on news that they just want total clarity on the indemnity before they can ask members to engage?

Not all members watch the news. Schools will have meetings in the morning. They need to communicate with members asap

TheValeyard

Treppen wrote: »

Looks like subject studied outside school can be accepted from either a registered or unregistered teacher as long as the principal concurs on the grade.

Pg. 29

What an absolute joke

jayo76

km79 wrote: »

Not all members watch the news. Schools will have meetings in the morning. They need to communicate with members asap

Agreed.

Treppen

TheValeyard wrote: »

What an absolute joke

RE: Subject outside school.

Ya it's a tough call though as long as the teachers are legit and engage properly with principals. There are a good few who are repeating for an extra subject etc. so to put them through a 3rd year would be harsh.

rainbowtrout

What I don't understand is the need for indemnity in the first place....

As in, if the student is not happy with the predicted grade and they don't get anywhere with the appeal which really just examines the nuts and bolts of grade entry, they have the option of sitting the exam anyway.

Given that the student has to opt-in to receive their predicted grade, why can't 'you can't sue if you're not happy with the predicted grades' be part of the T&Cs of opting in?

TheValeyard

Treppen wrote: »

RE: Subject outside school.

Ya it's a tough call though as long as the teachers are legit and engage properly with principals. There are a good few who are repeating for an extra subject etc. so to put them through a 3rd year would be harsh.

Good point. But I'd be very dubious. Many family member and family friends teach extra subjects to students outside of school. It's open to abuse. Be interesting to see how it works out.

km79

km79 wrote: »

Not all members watch the news. Schools will have meetings in the morning. They need to communicate with members asap

They have duly obliged in fairness
https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-responds-to-calculated-grades-guide/

rainbowtrout

TheValeyard wrote: »

Good point. But I'd be very dubious. Many family member and family friends teach extra subjects to students outside of school. It's open to abuse. Be interesting to see how it works out.

But don't they have to declare if they have a relationship with the student?

km79

Has anyone seen a date of any description on those 40 pages ?

mtoutlemonde

Re LCVP, portfolios returned to the school, not marked and returned to SEC after predictive grading. Seems like an awful waste of money as the class teacher will know what's in them!

annamarie2013

km79 wrote: »

Has anyone seen a date of any description on those 40 pages ?

"Further guidance on the submission of data to the department will follow shortly" - See Page 31

km79

annamarie2013 wrote: »

"Further guidance on the submission of data to the department will follow shortly" - See Page 31

They are LITERALLY making it up as they go along

annamarie2013

Unbelievable...... after waiting so long!

Inspector Coptoor

It is NO different to the first set of guidlines from my reading of it

Step 1 - give every student in your class a mark based on past data but not limited to past data and professional judgement on how the Student would have done in June.
Step 2 - rank the students in your class from 1-24 or whatever
Step 3 - sit down with the other teachers of the other LC classes in your subject and rank them from 1-72 or whatever
Step 4 - Principal signs off

km79

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

It is NO different to the first art of guidlines from my reading of it

Step 1 - give every student in your class a mark based on past data but not limited to past data and professional judgement on how the Student would have done in June.
Step 2 - rank the students in your class from 1-24 or whatever
Step 3 - sit down with the other teachers of the other LC classes in your subject and rank them from 1-72 or whatever
Step 4 - Principal signs off

Just a lot more printing

rainbowtrout

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

It is NO different to the first art of guidlines from my reading of it

Step 1 - give every student in your class a mark based on past data but not limited to past data and professional judgement on how the Student would have done in June.
Step 2 - rank the students in your class from 1-24 or whatever
Step 3 - sit down with the other teachers of the other LC classes in your subject and rank them from 1-72 or whatever
Step 4 - Principal signs off

Reads the exact same to me too except they've added the four forms to the pdf. And they still don't have the portal set up/guidelines video ready. It's an absolute omnishambles.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Bobtheman wrote: »

Nothing I see in my quick perusal deals with my issue.
Teacher A keeps brilliant records.Teacher B doesn't.
Thus there will be variance and guess work.
Give your students huge benefit of the doubt because we ain't trained for this. Time traveling devices are needed.
So call it what you like - inflate or benefit but do it.

You make a valid point, no doubt.
I’m a great man for correcting and giving written feedback , but utterly hopeless at keeping ‘records’ of this.

The word that keeps being repeated in the new guidelines is EVIDENCE. The only ‘evidence’ I have are the 3 House exams and the pre - exams on the school’s VSware system.

I don’t see much wriggle room in how I can deviate from the recorded evidence . ie. the results.

My mocks were marked far too generously and erratically by a friend of a friend.This has caused a headache for me now.

Dad: What did ya get in the pre ?
Daughter : 77%
Dad : And he gave ya a bloody H4??

I don’t see anything in these guidelines that allow us a measure of professional judgment.

It cleverly ‘suggests’ we do, but on closer inspection, we don’t. It’s about the tangible evidence.

To address your inflation argument, I will refer to an actual example of a student I have.

Christmas 18 - 61%
Summer. 19 - 58%
Christmas. 19 - 56%
Pre Exam. - 64%

I can’t ( as much as I’d like to ) give this girl a H3. There is no evidence’ to suggest she is capable of it, or deserves it.

It’s a bit of a mess.

km79

I don’t see any mention of training anymore

Bobtheman

Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »

You make a valid point, no doubt.
I’m a great man for correcting and giving written feedback , but utterly hopeless at keeping ‘records’ of this.

The word that keeps being repeated in the new guidelines is EVIDENCE. The only ‘evidence’ I have are the 3 House exams and the pre - exams on the school’s VSware system.

I don’t see much wriggle room in how I can deviate from the recorded evidence . ie. the results.

My mocks were marked far too generously and erratically by a friend of a friend.This has caused a headache for me now.

Dad: What did ya get in the pre ?
Daughter : 77%
Dad : And he gave ya a bloody H4??

I don’t see anything in these guidelines that allow us a measure of professional judgment.

It cleverly ‘suggests’ we do, but on closer inspection, we don’t. It’s about the tangible evidence.

To address your inflation argument, I will refer to an actual example of a student I have.

Christmas 18 - 61%
Summer. 19 - 58%
Christmas. 19 - 56%
Pre Exam. - 64%

I can’t ( as much as I’d like to ) give this girl a H3. There is no evidence’ to suggest she is capable of it, or deserves it.

It’s a bit of a mess.

You don't submit any evidence with your grades. Thus injection of your views is Allowed. It's pretty vague on what constitutes evidence