Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

randylonghorn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

In my departments for example I have only the one LC class. If they are to be split the other teacher of the subject has only ever had maternity leaves. Who decides who I teach? Who gets to be in the class with their actual teacher and who gets the filler teacher?

And if I’m also used for maths my other subject because they have large classes it’s worse. I haven’t taught senior maths in over five years now. I’m far less on the ball than other teachers. Who decides who gets the experienced teacher who is super on top of the LC syllabus and marking schemes and has taught the class all year?

I have no idea, mirror, I'm just brainstorming here, but ...

Your class is split in two, you take one half for an hour, another teacher supervises the other half while they complete say a revision exercise which you have set.

Then you grab a very quick coffee and the two of you swap rooms and do it in reverse.

Then you have your hours done for the day and you go home.

Tomorrow morning you are the "filler" for someone else, and you go home afterwards.

And so on ...


Honestly, as I say, I have no clue, but it strikes me that a system something like that might work, and not put too much load on teachers either.

I'm probably missing some major issue tho!

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Exactly, you phrased it better than me.


I think there’s a real issue teaching for two weeks if we need severe social distancing and it would leave schools and teacher open to massive complaints.

In my departments for example I have only the one LC class. If they are to be split the other teacher of the subject has only ever had maternity leaves. Who decides who I teach? Who gets to be in the class with their actual teacher and who gets the filler teacher?

And if I’m also used for maths my other subject because they have large classes it’s worse. I haven’t taught senior maths in over five years now. I’m far less on the ball than other teachers. Who decides who gets the experienced teacher who is super on top of the LC syllabus and marking schemes and has taught the class all year?

Any decent management would put a timetable together easy enough to prioritise splitting classes so that they generally have the teacher they normally have.

E.g. Put a two hour block on for Maths and English (two subjects where the teachers are highly unlikely to teach both).

Say there are four classes in the year group, top half of the alphabet of each class go to Maths for the first hour, and bottom half go to English, after an hour swap over so everyone gets an hour of each in a class half the size.

Could even do a three way rotation as everyone generally takes English, Irish and Maths.


Take a set of subjects on a choice block and pair that block with a second block.

Same thing again. One half the year attends the subjects in block one and the other half attends the subjects in block two, swap after an hour and go to the other block. Might have a few niggles to sort out on individual blocks but it's not unworkable.

r93kaey5p2izun

I think it's unrealistic to talk of splitting classes in half. It will need to be split in 4 to allow physical distancing in an average classroom. It sounds like a small thing, but actually it wil make a very significant difference to arranging any sort of timetable.

There will also need to be proper disinfection of desks done as students swap over. Time for this will need to be timetabled in.

randylonghorn

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

I think it's unrealistic to talk of splitting classes in half. It will need to be split in 4 to allow physical distancing in an average classroom. It sounds like a small thing, but actually it will make a very significant difference to arranging any sort of timetable.

You could well be right, but if only 6th years are in, would you have access to any bigger rooms to reduce the number of groups needed?

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

There will also need to be proper disinfection of desks done as students swap over. Time for this will need to be timetabled in.

Agreed. I'd be aiming to move the teachers more than the students, but obviously that will only work up to a point.

km79

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

I think it's unrealistic to talk of splitting classes in half. It will need to be split in 4 to allow physical distancing in an average classroom. It sounds like a small thing, but actually it wil make a very significant difference to arranging any sort of timetable.

There will also need to be proper disinfection of desks done as students swap over. Time for this will need to be timetabled in.

Was thinking about this the other day
I have 2 classes
If they are split into 4 I will do the same revision 8 times. Any bit of revision worthwhile won’t be possible to do 8 times over 2 weeks considering they have all their other subjects too
I would be better off doing it over google classroom live for an hour a day

And of course they have their practicals too.......

r93kaey5p2izun

randylonghorn wrote: »

You could well be right, but if only 6th years are in, would you have access to any bigger rooms to reduce the number of groups needed?

No, I would say your average 20+ year old school would have only the hall and maybe in some cases one other room that could fit 13-15 students with physical distancing. Most classrooms could only take 6-8 students with the required distance. Some even less.

randylonghorn

Damn, I was just thinking back, the secondary school I attended would have the hall, a "double" classroom with a partition which could be rolled back (the "old hall" refitted when the new big one was built), and 2 large "open areas" all of which could easily fit 13-15 with social distancing.

In fact the hall and double classroom would probably take a full class group.

And it's 40+ years old, or at least the main part is. Older part would have smaller rooms all right.

km79

randylonghorn wrote: »

Damn, I was just thinking back, the secondary school I attended would have the hall, a "double" classroom with a partition which could be rolled back (the "old hall" refitted when the new big one was built), and 2 large "open areas" all of which could easily fit 13-15 with social distancing.

In fact the hall and double classroom would probably take a full class group.

And it's 40+ years old, or at least the main part is. Older part would have smaller rooms all right.

Think about the practicals
Say there are a couple of construction classes and one room
And the classes have to be split
I don’t see how it works
I don’t think it does

They have to award all practicals 100% and focus on the written exams imo

randylonghorn

Yeah, I have come to agree tbh.

It's not just the room space, it's the time space, if you'll excuse my English.

Plus harder to keep social distancing in practicals if equipment has to be shared.

Plus an unequal playing field where some subjects don't do the practical components / orals and some do.

km79

Simon Harris has given an interview to our favourite Sunday newspaper The Sunday Independent
He says they are hoping to have schools reopen at least once a week before the end of the summer
Not sure if he means primary or secondary
So many questions............
Be interesting to see how they would plan on doing it all the same to ensure the safety of all concerned

Hope there is a plan and this is not just a populist idea . Have seen it happen in a couple of other countries with primary schools though so who know

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

Simon Harris has given an interview to our favourite Sunday newspaper The Sunday Independent
He says they are hoping to have schools reopen at least once a week before the end of the summer
Not sure if he means primary or secondary
So many questions............
Be interesting to see how they would plan on doing it all the same to ensure the safety of all concerned

Hope there is a plan and this is not just a populist idea . Have seen it happen in a couple of other countries with primary schools though so who know

Here are my questions so far and I'm primary.

Will PPE be provided for staff?

Will other bulidings be coopted for use as schools like hotels as drop down hospitals?

Will classes be split into small groups like the lovely Danish photos all over the papers the other day? 120 in each year group here, need ot be split into max of 6 children per group

Will the classes be deep cleaned properly everyday?

In my school we have

km79

khalessi wrote: »

Here are my questions so far and I'm primary.

Will PPE be provided for staff?

Will other bulidings be coopted for use as schools like hotels as drop down hospitals?

Will classes be split into small groups like the lovely Danish photos all over the papers the other day? 120 in each year group here, need ot be split into max of 6 children per group

Will the classes be deep cleaned properly everyday?

In my school we have

It seems parents in Denmark are resisting it anyway
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-covid19-denmark-lockdown-school-education-children

Another article says schools are having as much classes outside as possible , break times at local playgrounds and have rented TENTS for extra classrooms


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-how-denmark-fared-on-first-days-of-reopened-schools-1.4231385?mode=amp

I really hope they have already discussed then in a bit of detail with all stakeholders . And it is not just a response to media pressure
It is out there now so it will be latched on to.

I would love to return to school . I miss the social side of it immensely.
I would like my son to return to his primary school even more so for the same reason
But neither will happen unless I’m happy it is safe

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

I really hope they have already discussed then in a bit of detail with all stakeholders . And it is not just a response to media pressure
It is out there now so it will be latched on to.

I would love to return to school . I miss the social side of it immensely.
I would like my son to return to his primary school even more so for the same reason
But neither will happen unless I’m happy it is safe

Totally agree, I want it to be safe for me, my kids and kids I teach.

km79

If it is only primary schools that reopen then I would be sceptical if the motives behind it .
Would it be more for childcare so that other areas of economy can reopen .........

Anyway it will be interesting to see what it is planned . It has to happen sometime . But not before it is safe or the whole country will be locked down again
Let’s see what the plan is first .
I would assume that Harris would not come out and say something like this without some kind of discussions having taken place . Genuinely interested to see if it could work

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

If it is only primary schools that reopen then I would be sceptical if the motives behind it .
Would it be more for childcare so that other areas of economy can reopen .........

Anyway it will be interesting to see what it is planned . It has to happen sometime . But not before it is safe or the whole country will be locked down again
Let’s see what the plan is first .
I would assume that Harris would not come out and say something like this without some kind of discussions having taken place . Genuinely interested to see if it could work

I'd imagine it will just be us in the primary sector and it will mainly be for childcare. If this does happen it will be interesting to see how many are sent in as I'd quite a few kept out the last week that we were open. The parents didn't want their kids in harm's way.

Also I doubt any stakeholders are being consulted(Unions, IPPN, JMB ETBs) as that would mean some actual feedback from the education foot soldiers and sure what would we know.

Anyway the thing I'm dreading whenever and in whatever format we go back is trying to enforce social distancing. Kids being kids will just want to be the way they have always been. They/we are social creatures and human contact has always been a given.

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

If it is only primary schools that reopen then I would be sceptical if the motives behind it .
Would it be more for childcare so that other areas of economy can reopen .........

Anyway it will be interesting to see what it is planned . It has to happen sometime . But not before it is safe or the whole country will be locked down again
Let’s see what the plan is first .
I would assume that Harris would not come out and say something like this without some kind of discussions having taken place . Genuinely interested to see if it could work

I'd imagine it will just be us in the primary sector and it will mainly be for childcare. If this does happen it will be interesting to see how many are sent in as I'd quite a few kept out the last week that we were open. The parents didn't want their kids in harm's way.

Also I doubt any stakeholders are being consulted(Unions, IPPN, JMB ETBs) as that would mean some actual feedback from the education foot soldiers and sure what would we know.

Anyway the thing I'm dreading whenever and in whatever format we go back is trying to enforce social distancing. Kids being kids will just want to be the way they have always been. They/we are social creatures and human contact has always been a given.

Shn99

Will be interesting to see how they work it. In my school there are 1200+ students and we are strapped for space as it is.

Treppen

I think he's just stoking it.

There was ZERO mention of medical advice or discussion around planning and consulting.

Sure let's open schools... but definitely not pubs he says..... or GAA fixtures :pac: you gotta laugh at this country's priorities.

Let's experiment on the kiddies first. It will also help with giving the parent's with some free childcare.

I'm sure the kids will learn loooooads and catch up on their one day a week.

Treppen

Shn99 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how they work it. In my school there are 1200+ students and we are strapped for space as it is.

I predict an outbreak of mass prefab building.

km79

Treppen wrote: »

I think he's just stoking it.

There was ZERO mention of medical advice or discussion around planning and consulting.

Sure let's open schools... but definitely not pubs he says..... or GAA fixtures :pac: you gotta laugh at this country's priorities.

Let's experiment on the kiddies first. It will also help with giving the parent's with some free childcare.

I'm sure the kids will learn loooooads and catch up on their one day a week.

It was a dangerous statement if there is nothing behind it
The papers will run with possible “plans “ form various “experts” every day now

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

It was a dangerous statement if there is nothing behind it
The papers will run with possible “plans “ form various “experts” every day now

I think their plan is, mention it, get a reaction, then plan

Treppen

It's purposely vague. Open for one day could mean kids back on June 29th.

km79

Treppen wrote: »

It's purposely vague. Open for one day could mean kids back on June 29th.

One day a week
I can see it for the month of June in primary
Most parents won’t bother risking their families health

TheDriver

It's giving hope at some form of normality. Humans like hope. I wouldn't waste energy into speculating anymore.

Rosita

It would be pointless to make post-primary schools go back since they are closed until May 4th anyway. That's three/four weeks from the holidays and the LC and JC having been deferred effectively accepts there's no going back in May. Problem PR-wise for them is that if they allow post-primary students back in any manner before June it will raise the obvious question as to why (a) the orals could not have happened, and (b) why the LC had to be delayed.

Also such talk assumes a huge turnaround in control of the virus. The schools were closed when there was 43 cases and no deaths nationwide. Are they going to reopen if there's say 30 deaths and 500 cases every day?

There might be a case for, at some point, considering opening schools in some areas which are relatively unaffected. In somewhere like Dublin where many children walk with friends to school or take the bus, and the virus is very active, opening schools at all before September seems risky.

What a needless logistical cost and hassle to schools for the sake of pure tokenism where a student (those who do show up) might come in for half a day a week (they can't have them there over lunch-time presumably). Particularly at a point of the year when most will have gotten to grips with on-line teaching.

I'd be surprised if on-line teaching does not still play a significant role even in the autumn. It would be time better spent to be engaging with schools on the logistics of holding classes in September. What a phenomenal challenge that will be for school managements if they can have only maybe 10 people in a class but the same number of teachers. And then the threat that just ONE case would shut the school? There's bigger fish to fry right now than some token gesture of getting kids back in for half a day.

r93kaey5p2izun

I'm very disappointed in the complete recklessness and populism of Simon Harris. He had come up in my estimation during this crisis but I'm afraid his weak reactive pandering to media pressure, while failing to proactively tackle any issues, comes to the fore once again. There is no health advice to reopen schools this term in any capacity - both Tony Holohan and Philip Nolan have made that pretty clear. They have even been worryingly non committal about even offering hope for the safety of the postponed LC. Jennifer O'Connell wrote an article yesterday saying we should prioritise opening schools, which was full of vague suggestions and unworkable notions. She got a lot of fair criticism on Twitter from teachers and parents alike, became petulant in her responses claiming abuse when none was apparent, and Simon tweeted his support to her and thanked her for opening this "important conversation." Now today he's suddenly exploring the idea. Either she was dishonestly used as a government mouthpiece to test the waters, or he is a weak populist easily swayed by media pressure.

Bobtheman

Harris speaking off the top of his head. That's clear. How many bull**** stories have you read in your lives. Things that went nowhere?
Even if the Government thinking this way it would be a couple of weeks away as the mechanics would need to be worked out.
As other posters have suggested it's for Primary not secondary.

Bobtheman

Chaya Fresh Shoehorn wrote: »

I'm very disappointed in the complete recklessness and populism of Simon Harris. He had come up in my estimation during this crisis but I'm afraid his weak reactive pandering to media pressure, while failing to proactively tackle any issues, comes to the fore once again. There is no health advice to reopen schools this term in any capacity - both Tony Holohan and Philip Nolan have made that pretty clear. They have even been worryingly non committal about even offering hope for the safety of the postponed LC. Jennifer O'Connell wrote an article yesterday saying we should prioritise opening schools, which was full of vague suggestions and unworkable notions. She got a lot of fair criticism on Twitter from teachers and parents alike, became petulant in her responses claiming abuse when none was apparent, and Simon tweeted his support to her and thanked her for opening this "important conversation." Now today he's suddenly exploring the idea. Either she was dishonestly used as a government mouthpiece to test the waters, or he is a weak populist easily swayed by media pressure.

Twitter is a cess pit. Mainly used by self promoters. I occasionally join and express an opinion to non teaching "educationalists" and then disappear before I'm sucked in.
She has a right to raise the idea . She should have kept it non specific and then left it.

r93kaey5p2izun

Bobtheman wrote: »

Twitter is a cess pit. Mainly used by self promoters. I occasionally join and express an opinion to non teaching "educationalists" and then disappear before I'm sucked in.
She has a right to raise the idea . She should have kept it non specific and then left it.

I have no problem with her raising the idea if it is her own idea. I would have a problem with her column being used by the government. I would also have a problem with the Minister engaging in reckless commentary in response to media pressure or as a sop to his media friends. She also has to expect fair criticism of her ideas when she asks for opinions - she seemingly does not accept disagreement. Anyone who disagreed with her was labelled vitriolic. I have liked her column in the past but when I saw her conduct on twitter I really lost all respect for her as a journalist. Twitter can be an awful place, but she was not subjected to abuse.

byhookorbycrook

I’d suggest to people who think that’s it’s as simple as saying “ schools should open one day a week” be given 10 6 year olds to keep 2 ms apart all day , ensure the children wash their hands properly at hourly intervals , disinfect every surface the children touch and ensure all 10 don’t touch their faces , use proper cough hygiene and ensure parents collecting the children stay 2m apart as well.

We are going to need to go back to school before there is an effective vaccine , but will need the proper resources to do so. Primary schools , in the main , don’t have spare rooms . If it’s proposed to split children over different rooms each day , these rooms would have to be cleaned top to toe every single day . In primary , it’s impossible to get subs , so what happens when teachers fall ill? If a child becomes ill , are schools wide open to legal action ?