Everything will change after Coronavirus

AllForIt

No it won't, life will go back to normal.

Socialists and leftists seem to think that society will change in some fundamental way when this is all over.

It's always the politically disadvantaged that would suggest something like this. They are currently wetting themselves to use this crisis to further their political objectives.

Any changes will be trivial. No seismic change.

Can't wait to get back to normal.

_Kaiser_

Have to agree. A lot of people seem to be thinking that this will be the dawn of some awakening of how we can't live like we used to anymore, how we need to live and work more sustainably, how the pursuit of economic prosperity can't be the primary purpose of life.

It's a nice sentiment for sure and yes it WOULD be nice if we all collectively learned something here - but this isn't a big budget disaster movie I'm afraid.

I fully expect that 12 months after this virus has been cured or at least become manageable, we'll be back to life as it was 6/12 months ago.

Within hours of the restrictions being lifted the pubs will be thronged. Human nature abhors a vacuum. Same as it ever was.

Guy:Incognito

I like how you say "politically disadvantaged" when what you mean is "how quickly can we get this **** over with and get back to not giving a **** about the poor"

Danno

Deleted User wrote: »

Within hours of the restrictions being lifted the pubs will be thronged. Human nature abhors a vacuum. Same as it ever was.

Exactly. If left-wing sympathisers, their "capitalist *foes*" think anything else will happen, then they have another thing coming to them.

In fact, I see Ireland going back to a late 80s -> early 90s type of societal thinking after this.

A sort of cultural reset button has been pressed. Only good thing this time round is the Church aren't orchestrating any part of it.

pgj2015

I have heard a few people saying that the result will be the poor taking back from the rich. I hate this way of thinking. i am not rich but the goal is to be rich, that is why i work 7 days a week. the people i heard talking about this taking from the rich, were lazy stoners who never worked a day in their life. i hate this kind of leftist thinking.

id rather be dead than live in a world were the lazy people with no ambition have as much as hard working people who contribute to society.

The_Brood

You have to be a real piece of garbage to not want major change. There is enough money out there to have a hospital fully equiped on every street corner, but no we cant have that, we need to keep the top 1 percent and 10 percent as rich as ever before. Better we die and live as economic slaves than rock the boat and demand fairness, right?

kwestfan08

As a poster above said the day the pubs are allowed back open again there wont be standing room in each and every one up and down the country. People will be will be only delighted to be back crammed together. I for one cannot wait.

The_Brood

pgj2015 wrote: »

I have heard a few people saying that the result will be the poor taking back from the rich. I hate this way of thinking. i am not rich but the goal is to be rich, that is why i work 7 days a week. the people i heard talking about this taking from the rich, were lazy stoners who never worked a day in their life. i hate this kind of leftist thinking.

id rather be dead than live in a world were the lazy people with no ambition have as much as hard working people who contribute to society.

99% of the "rich" do not deserve a lick of what they have. Either family inheretance, or they are good at coding or playing financial games with imaginary numbers. While the rest of us have to slave away to survive. That has to end by any and all means necessary.

pgj2015

The_Brood wrote: »

99% of the "rich" do not deserve a lick of what they have. Either family inheretance, or they are good at coding or playing financial games with imaginary numbers. While the rest of us have to slave away to survive. That has to end by any and all means necessary.

ok, so say some millionaire dies, who deserves their money, their kids or some random poor people? :pac:

Danno

pgj2015 wrote: »

I have heard a few people saying that the result will be the poor taking back from the rich. I hate this way of thinking. i am not rich but the goal is to be rich, that is why i work 7 days a week. the people i heard talking about this taking from the rich, were lazy stoners who never worked a day in their life. i hate this kind of leftist thinking.

id rather be dead than live in a world were the lazy people with no ambition have as much as hard working people who contribute to society.

Fear not if you trust the experts - they have simulated such a scenario whereby everyone in any western nation is given an equal amount of money and roam free. The results are that within 7.7 years the rich before are rich again and the old order is restored. Fear not if you are at least under 60 years old. :pac:

WashYourHands

pgj2015 wrote: »

I have heard a few people saying that the result will be the poor taking back from the rich. I hate this way of thinking. i am not rich but the goal is to be rich, that is why i work 7 days a week. the people i heard talking about this taking from the rich, were lazy stoners who never worked a day in their life. i hate this kind of leftist thinking.

id rather be dead than live in a world were the lazy people with no ambition have as much as hard working people who contribute to society.

That is not the goal

piplip87

The_Brood wrote: »

99% of the "rich" do not deserve a lick of what they have. Either family inheretance, or they are good at coding or playing financial games with imaginary numbers. While the rest of us have to slave away to survive. That has to end by any and all means necessary.

Learn to code or if you thinks it's so easy become a financial game player then. I'm pretty sure you could end up with a nice imaginary house or an imaginary car with all this imaginary money.

AllForIt

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I like how you say "politically disadvantaged" when what you mean is "how quickly can we get this **** over with and get back to not giving a **** about the poor"

Straight out of the Lefty handbook.

What I mean about the politically disadvantaged is the one's who haven't got support or who are not in Government like the UK Labour Party.

But you go on with your snide commentary if it makes you feel superior.

FloatingVoter

Danno wrote: »

Fear not if you trust the experts - they have simulated such a scenario whereby everyone in any western nation is given an equal amount of money and roam free. The results are that within 7.7 years the rich before are rich again and the old order is restored. Fear not if you are at least under 60 years old. :pac:

Sadly true. That study was so unbelievable they replicated it. Again and again. Same or similar results. "A sucker born every minute", ,"if I asked the public what they wanted, they'd ask for a faster horse".


PT Barnum and Henry Ford were contrasting but immensely rich individuals who would be exploiting this pandemic to their own ends and succeeding at it.


Both are now dead and worth the weight of their ashes. It's not the super-rich who step over the homeless on a daily basis - it's the average plods. Let the 1% **** off and sink a yacht. We matter, not them - it will return to normal selfish crazy but hopefully with a bit more consideration and awareness.



Back to the OP's point. Here's €10,000 - what are you going to do with it ?

Del2005

The_Brood wrote: »

You have to be a real piece of garbage to not want major change. There is enough money out there to have a hospital fully equiped on every street corner, but no we cant have that, we need to keep the top 1 percent and 10 percent as rich as ever before. Better we die and live as economic slaves than rock the boat and demand fairness, right?

We pay plenty for our health it's gross mismanagement that has it in bits. We merged 8 health boards yet not a single administrator was let go, to keep the unions happy, so we pay 7 people to do nothing while we have a hiring freeze on front line staff and you want to blame the rich while it's the socialists in the unions that are keeping our public health system in bits.

ArmaniJeanss

Deleted User wrote: »

Within hours of the restrictions being lifted the pubs will be thronged.

I'd have to say No to that.
A handful of super-popular pubs in big cities might be thronged. Temple Bar and Dame Street may be rocking at weekends.
But the average (median :pac:) pub will be facing an unprecedented struggle with everyone short of money and in debt.

FloatingVoter

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'd have to say No to that.
A handful of super-popular pubs in big cities might be thronged. Temple Bar and Dame Street may be rocking at weekends.
But the average (median :pac:) pub will be facing an unprecedented struggle with everyone short of money and in debt.

Yeah, there'll need to be deals done with Diageo / Jameson / Heineken etc. to supply on tick for a more extended period. Customer volume will be lower barring the kids on night one so even in the superpubs trade will be down.


The likes of Louis Fitz and Charlie Chawke can handle loss leading for a bit but we may be looking at disaster in the towns and villages where the pubs are actually a factor in human life and welll-being.

jill_valentine

AllForIt wrote: »

But you go on with your snide commentary if it makes you feel superior.

Dyou think maybe it's a bit rich accusing other people of snide commentary considering your own opening and subsequent posts up there.

There's no going back to "'normal" after an event like this. Might not be what the hard left wants or what you do, but I'm pretty sure nobody forecasting lasting changes is primarily thinking of "people won't go back to pubs!".

You can come back to this post in a few years and tell me if travel, work and the property sectors haven't all massively changed from how they were this time last year.

Poorside

I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of cash, most places that are open are asking for card payment and from my own experience this really isn't a problem

jill_valentine

Poorside wrote: »

I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of cash, most places that are open are asking for card payment and from my own experience this really isn't a problem

I'm very uneasy about it. Creates a lot of dependence on banks, and I don't know about the rest of ye but I've had some absolutely horrible customer service experiences with banks after one error or another on their part. Doesn't inspire great confidence.

I have to think too that if shops totally move away from cash it makes life quite a bit more difficult for sectors of the disadvantaged who have to conduct their lives in small amounts of cash at a time, eg the homeless or small time farmers.

Quantum Erasure

from an american perspective, but relevant

https://forge.medium.com/prepare-for-the-ultimate-gaslighting-6a8ce3f0a0e0

...And so the onslaught is coming. Get ready, my friends. What is about to be unleashed on American society will be the greatest campaign ever created to get you to feel normal again. It will come from brands, it will come from government, it will even come from each other, and it will come from the left and from the right. We will do anything, spend anything, believe anything, just so we can take away how horribly uncomfortable all of this feels. And on top of that, just to turn the screw that much more, will be the one effort that’s even greater: the all-out blitz to make you believe you never saw what you saw. The air wasn’t really cleaner; those images were fake. The hospitals weren’t really a war zone; those stories were hyperbole. The numbers were not that high; the press is lying. You didn’t see people in masks standing in the rain risking their lives to vote. Not in America. You didn’t see the leader of the free world push an unproven miracle drug like a late-night infomercial salesman. That was a crisis update. You didn’t see homeless people dead on the street. You didn’t see inequality. You didn’t see indifference. You didn’t see utter failure of leadership and systems.

tdf7187

AllForIt wrote: »

No it won't, life will go back to normal.

Socialists and leftists seem to think that society will change in some fundamental way when this is all over.

It's always the politically disadvantaged that would suggest something like this. They are currently wetting themselves to use this crisis to further their political objectives.

Any changes will be trivial. No seismic change.

Can't wait to get back to normal.

Agreed except I dont think the 'everything is now permanently changed' mantra is coming exlusively or even primarily from the socialists. Its also coming from the right wing authoritarians.

blade1

Deleted User wrote: »

Within hours of the restrictions being lifted the pubs will be thronged. Human nature abhors a vacuum. Same as it ever was.

And listen to everyone in there being an expert on Corona virus?
No thanks.
We are creatures of habit so I reckon some people won't be too bothered àbout going back to the pub.

jill_valentine

blade1 wrote: »

And listen to everyone in there being an expert on Corona virus?
No thanks.
We are creatures of habit so I reckon some people won't be too bothered àbout going back to the pub.

Think of how counterintuitive it already feels for most people to hug or hand shake a stranger. That doesn't go away overnight.

Compare it to the Great Depression in the US. People who remembered experiencing that developed habits and behaviours that stayed with them for life. To expect that something which has affected so many people’s lifestyles, income and living conditions all at once to have no significant lasting effect is absurd. It's normalcy bias.

I don't know what normal will be this time next year, but I know for definite it won't look like 2019.

Sunny Disposition

Some things are bound to change.

There are guys in every town and village who went for a few pints every day for decades. Some won’t bother going as frequently now the cycle is broken.

People never bothered much with cooking before, but now do it every day. At least some of them will keep it up.

Some companies never had anyone work from home, now they have and realise it’s fine.

Politically and economically inequality is at one if it’s historical highs points and a push back had already started. This won’t do anything to stymie it.

I was lucky enough to become quite wealthy a number of decades ago and I did work hard, but no harder than guys who worked for me. In most cases who gets rich is down to either luck or inheritance more than any other factor. People shouldn’t think there’s some meritocracy around money.

blade1

What do ye reckon the leaders of countries worldwide will do to stop this from happening again.
Surely can't be allowed to happen again.

kevcos

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I like how you say "politically disadvantaged" when what you mean is "how quickly can we get this **** over with and get back to not giving a **** about the poor"

Awesome thanks for deciphering what the OP really meant.

Its great to have people there who can literally take someones exact words, red pen them and tell the rest of us what in fact that person really meant.

You are doing Gods, and Cathy Newmans, work bless you.

Yurt2

AllForIt wrote: »

No it won't, life will go back to normal.

Socialists and leftists seem to think that society will change in some fundamental way when this is all over.

It's always the politically disadvantaged that would suggest something like this. They are currently wetting themselves to use this crisis to further their political objectives.

Any changes will be trivial. No seismic change.

You better be praying to the Easter bunny for things to go back to normality .

As for 'the left' alone thinking the world will see big economic changes, you'd want to start paying attention. Commentators, economists and politicians of all stripes are telling you whats coming down the tracks.

I'd also argue that this post is a prime example of someone of whatever political bent to claim 'the meaning' of the crisis to peddle their agenda. Something you're accusing 'the left' of doing, but are engaging in yourself.

Smarten up.

Heres Johnny

blade1 wrote: »

What do ye reckon the leaders of countries worldwide will do to stop this from happening again.
Surely can't be allowed to happen again.

I can see some sort of health passport being a thing in the future. It's going to be very inconvenient but your last sentence is right, it can't be let happen again.

To the posters in this thread that have said everything will change and to the posters said that nothing will change, you're both wrong. Some things will change, some things will stay the same. Some things have already changed and some things have stayed the same.

Some changes for the better, some for the worse but all with a common goal of not letting this happen again.

Home working will remain a thing for many, probably those that are effective at it and for those that want to.

Social distancing will remain a feature of our lives to some extent for a certain period of time.
Not like it is now, but some extent.
Cant see a superpub wedging 500 people in for a good while. I fear for when croke Park or the Aviva or the three arena can sell out an event again, which is what many of us want. I have tickets for Italy Rugby match and I, for one, want to clap the Italian team on to the pitch in a show of solidarity with them and their ravaged brethern, hopefully as an Irishman from a country that learned from them and took their advice and saved thousands of our own citizens as they had the misfortune to get hit earlier than us and blindsided.

But I don't know when this will be.

plodder

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Some things are bound to change.

There are guys in every town and village who went for a few pints every day for decades. Some won’t bother going as frequently now the cycle is broken.

People never bothered much with cooking before, but now do it every day. At least some of them will keep it up.

Some companies never had anyone work from home, now they have and realise it’s fine.

Politically and economically inequality is at one if it’s historical highs points and a push back had already started. This won’t do anything to stymie it.

I was lucky enough to become quite wealthy a number of decades ago and I did work hard, but no harder than guys who worked for me. In most cases who gets rich is down to either luck or inheritance more than any other factor. People shouldn’t think there’s some meritocracy around money.

Which was it in your case?

archer22

blade1 wrote: »

What do ye reckon the leaders of countries worldwide will do to stop this from happening again.
Surely can't be allowed to happen again.

Hopefully take the illegal wildlife trade seriously and stamp it out ruthlessly, its not only driving other species to extinction but has now caused a worldwide Human disaster.
But sadly I don't hear this root cause of the disaster getting a mention from world leaders..or indeed hardly anybody else either for that matter.

Harry Palmr

They'll be changes but probably not the obvious ones like peace, compassion and greater equality.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

I think there will be changes.

But they will be somewhat subtle changes. Mostly within our individual and collective psyche... this will have a deep impact on how many people view their life, their work, their connection to the community!

I don't see how living through something like this, can leave you unaffected mentally. Even if it's just gaining a greater appreciation for the simple things that most of us take for granted.

This crisis has made me realise, that we are not a whole lot different to our ancestors that lived and struggled to survive 100 years ago or more. The only main difference, is that those people expected another crisis to appear regularly... where as, we have been somewhat blindsided by the magnitude of this. Particularly in the west, where we have probably been living a bit of a charmed existence for the last few decades.

_Brian

Can’t see anything changing radically. Look after the ‘08 meltdown how quickly people returned to materialistic ways and spending.
As for us having some sort of love in, equality for all left governed society, not a hope. There’s no way control will be turned over to a bunch of idealists with 5th class level of ideas for governing a country.

People will be mad for their cheap tat from China, for cheap foods from questionable sources, for mad beer nights out. We will see hospital admissions from drink and drugs surge when people get back out.

italodisco

Not trying to funny, but I'd assume the likes of tinder and grinder hook ups and the trip to copper face Jack's for the easy lay will see a massive drop.

Kivaro

The more things change, the more it stays the same.
Leo said today that there will be no changes to social welfare.
So the workers will still have to maintain one of most generous welfare systems in Europe; one that has many non-working welfare recipients having a much greater quality of life and be financially better off than workers with families.

The country just cannot afford it anymore, but that will not stop FG/FF from borrowing to shore up the welfare system. And then when this pandemic subsides, they will increase income taxes to sustain welfare payments .... but these income taxes will only be forced on the workers in this country.

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

99% of the "rich" do not deserve a lick of what they have. Either family inheretance, or they are good at coding or playing financial games with imaginary numbers. While the rest of us have to slave away to survive. That has to end by any and all means necessary.

Sounds a lot like somebody wants to take what others have worked for because they are unhappy with their lot in life. If leave my kids some inheritance money, of course they deserve it, if somebody else choses a profession where they make their salary by coding software or by trading stocks, good for them, they've learned their trade, made a choice to learn, I might add. We're lucky enough to live in a society where you can make a decent life for yourself. Equally we also live in a society where we're tolerant enough to allow those with cynical bitterness spout nonsense at those people, from their own self imposed corners of hate.

italodisco

Kivaro wrote: »

The more things change, the more it stays the same.
Leo said today that there will be no changes to social welfare.
So the workers will still have to maintain one of most generous welfare systems in Europe; one that has many non-working welfare recipients having a much greater quality of life and be financially better off than workers with families.

The country just cannot afford it anymore, but that will not stop FG/FF from borrowing to shore up the welfare system. And then when this pandemic subsides, they will increase income taxes to sustain welfare payments .... but these income taxes will only be forced on the workers in this country.

One thing that would work and should be done, anyone made redundant / laid off could surely be given temp contracts with their local councils and also in social welfare offices for the amount of hours that equate to 350 per week welfare, there's a definite shortage of workers in those roles that are needed.

This is a method that should have always been used, roles in councils and the army should be given to those on social welfare without the option to turn it down. Not just money handed out for no return

Danzy

Kivaro wrote: »

The more things change, the more it stays the same.
Leo said today that there will be no changes to social welfare.
So the workers will still have to maintain one of most generous welfare systems in Europe; one that has many non-working welfare recipients having a much greater quality of life and be financially better off than workers with families.

The country just cannot afford it anymore, but that will not stop FG/FF from borrowing to shore up the welfare system. And then when this pandemic subsides, they will increase income taxes to sustain welfare payments .... but these income taxes will only be forced on the workers in this country.

That maybe so but now is not the time to cut it.

Stimulating demand and spending is important now.

Britain have put in place a mechanism where the Bank of England will finance spending if need be.

That's groundbreaking.

pgj2015

italodisco wrote: »

Not trying to funny, but I'd assume the likes of tinder and grinder hook ups and the trip to copper face Jack's for the easy lay will see a massive drop.

what? tinder and people heading out to hook up is going to be the first thing a lot of people will do. most people you described are young and healthy, most of them wont be afraid of getting the virus.

pgj2015

pgj2015 wrote: »

ok, so say some millionaire dies, who deserves their money, their kids or some random poor people? :pac:

Deserves the money? Both seem equally undeserving

0gac3yjefb5sv7

The pubs will be jammed again for sure.

pgj2015

Deleted User wrote: »

Deserves the money? Both seem equally undeserving

would you say that if your parents left you a house worth 2 million euro?

Gael23

I am part of a social organization that can’t work long term without the need for a physical gathering of approx 200 people. We can to an extent work with video conference but it’s not a long term solution

Downlinz

Anyone who thinks everything will go back to "normal" is in a stage of denial and understandably so.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

pgj2015 wrote: »

I have heard a few people saying that the result will be the poor taking back from the rich. I hate this way of thinking. i am not rich but the goal is to be rich, that is why i work 7 days a week. the people i heard talking about this taking from the rich, were lazy stoners who never worked a day in their life. i hate this kind of leftist thinking.

id rather be dead than live in a world were the lazy people with no ambition have as much as hard working people who contribute to society.

Working 7 days a week, in order to "get rich"... is a shallow and materialistic existence.

I know plenty of people who have followed that sort of life plan. And I can say hand on heart, none of them seem happy or physically/mentally healthy!

I know one such person, in particular, who is currently battling cancer. They dedicated their life 24/7 to building their business up and the pursuit of wealth... they even ridiculed other people who were not as driven for this sort of success.

I'm not suggesting they deserved cancer. Nobody deserves cancer... but their lifestyle was not a healthy one. They ignored pretty much everything else except making money.

I hate this mentality - the mentality where people wrap up all their self-worth in what they do for a living and the insatiable drive for materialistic gains! And many people heap praise on them for their workaholic lifestyle!

If there is one thing that I hope changes, as a result of this pandemic, it's this mentality... of course you will never change everybody. But even if a certain % of people moved away from this materialistic mentality - it would be a really positive thing to come out of such a crappy situation!

One eyed Jack

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I like how you say "politically disadvantaged" when what you mean is "how quickly can we get this **** over with and get back to not giving a **** about the poor"

You’re conflating champagne socialists with people living in poverty, when the two groups couldn’t be further apart in their political views :pac:

I don’t think that one single event such as this would dramatically change the way people live their lives, any more than the Great Depression or any other historic event dramatically changed people’s lives. One thing I’m grateful for at least is that we’re hearing a lot less in the media now about this “climate emergency” and “homeless crisis” nonsense.

Kivaro

Danzy wrote: »

That maybe so but now is not the time to cut it.

Stimulating demand and spending is important now.

Britain have put in place a mechanism where the Bank of England will finance spending if need be.

That's groundbreaking.

Most definitely.
Now is not the time obviously.

But when the bills do start to come in; we all need to start paying for it ..... together. Even if it includes a small tax on welfare payments.

nthclare

I'd say we'll all be on less than 60,000 a year including CEOs
Because the wages some people are accumulating for sitting on their throne's doing fck all is going to have to stop.

Event managers and people in marketing events will be peppering it now, through no fault of their own I'd say event's Will be hard to manage...

As for people in the Tourism industry like myself will probably be on 3 day's a week until next April although I work for the state I'll happily take the cut.
Money means nothing to me, as I am self sufficient and love a challenge, fishing, growing veg and foraging for year's is my background.
It'll give me time to get contact's do course's and work on projects

Surfing and bodyboarding, hiking keeps me fit.

Maybe I'll volunteer in a charity shop, do something useful or work in a Café.

This new age will suit the more adaptive people men and women who are happy with their lot and can rise above it, we never sold our dignity for fool's gold.

Imagine living on 350 a week and paying 400 a month for electronics, metal a fuel tank and nice trim, alloy's and a Bose sound system wired with gold.
Bargaining in my head for NCT no NCT, more money for living less money for living...

The creative people will prosper the wealthy will be still wealthy and the middle classes will be caught in no man's land.
A landscape of debt, hands in their faces and feeling of financial insecurities...
Being in the middle must be tough.

Being a bottom feeder or a super toff we'll get on with it, happy with our lot.

Blueshoe

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Yeah, there'll need to be deals done with Diageo / Jameson / Heineken etc. to supply on tick for a more extended period. Customer volume will be lower barring the kids on night one so even in the superpubs trade will be down.


The likes of Louis Fitz and Charlie Chawke can handle loss leading for a bit but we may be looking at disaster in the towns and villages where the pubs are actually a factor in human life and welll-being.

I'm pretty sure Louis Fitz and Francis Brennan are the same person though.
Is this accurate?