Rights on Notice of Redeployment in Public Sector

Connacht15

If a public sector worker has received a notice of redeployment during the current Covid 19 crisis, what rights do they have especially if -


The new department is completely unsuitable.
The new location is not reachable within reason.



Thanks for your answers in advance.

Connacht15

Well anything, folks?

Slydice

Forsa have a webpage up about it. Covers a lot of situations:
https://www.forsa.ie/covid-19-advice-to-forsa-members_0604/

At the very end, the say you can contact them if there is a query or concern.

Connacht15

Thank you for this valuable information.

EO2019

Are you civil or public sector? I know the rules in the civil sector and non commercial state bodies surrounding redeployment are “ People may be moved to positions within 45km of their current work address or home address, whichever is the shorter, ” and “ In the case of the Civil Service, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform can redeploy Civil Servants to meet priority needs (including levies of staff where necessary). Where functions are transferred within or between areas of the Civil or Public Service, associated staff will normally also transfer if a corresponding need has been identified.”

jadie

I’m also in this predicament and Forsa were no help to me. My workplace (public sector) does not have a deployment policy normally.

I am waiting to hear back from PAS but with childcare issues can really only work from home. I’m not sure if we have any rights. If we refuse is it a disciplinary matter?

Technocentral

I haven't being so far but expect to be redeployed at some stage, I currently walk into work (50 minutes) as I won't go on buses or luas at this time, I don't cycle or drive so would only accept redeployment within reasonable walking distance. (an hour or so from Ringsend where I live).

jadie

Can we refuse a certain area so? Anytime I query this am only directed to the useless circular.

Technocentral

jadie wrote: »

Can we refuse a certain area so? Anytime I query this am only directed to the useless circular.

No idea but would be saying the above to them

Connacht15

I live in a council housing estate and it would be next to impossible for me to work in the local Social Welfare office, even though it's essentially a bank for the layabouts who live in the estate!

gauchesnell

have you been selected to be redeployed

I am public sector (admin) and my work has advised that admin staff are not being selected to be redeployed at this time. I know every workplace is different.

I would volunteer if I could but they dont take volunteers at present.

Connacht15

gauchesnell wrote: »

have you been selected to be redeployed

I am public sector (admin) and my work has advised that admin staff are not being selected to be redeployed at this time. I know every workplace is different.

I would volunteer if I could but they dont take volunteers at present.

Yes, I'm public sector admin and I have been selected for redeployment and was told by HR to submit a completed form to PAS, which I did.

gauchesnell

wow it defo seems to vary per sector. Im in education and we have been advised that no admin staff are being redeployed at present.

I would get back on forsa again or speak with your manager. As mentioned I would like to be redeployed/reassigned so my hope is that I will be selected.

Maybe advise your manager of your personal circumstances and they could select a staff member who may be interested in same.

Sorry to hear it doesnt suit you. what area in the public sector do you work in may i ask

Connacht15

gauchesnell wrote: »

wow it defo seems to vary per sector. Im in education and we have been advised that no admin staff are being redeployed at present.

I would get back on forsa again or speak with your manager. As mentioned I would like to be redeployed/reassigned so my hope is that I will be selected.

Maybe advise your manager of your personal circumstances and they could select a staff member who may be interested in same.

Sorry to hear it doesnt suit you. what area in the public sector do you work in may i ask

I would rather not say the particular area.
I don't mind being re-assigned at all but social welfare in my local area would be very trcky and I would have travel limitations also.

gauchesnell

no worries. Have you been advised it would be your local social welfare office? It could be anywhere where there is demand.

I am sure a lot of people will have childcare and travel restrictions so they have to take into consideration that aswell. It could also be working from home - just a different workplace.

If you have received confirmation of your new place I would contact forsa or your manager if it doesnt suit. Civil and public sector are huge areas. As mentioned my workplace/sector hasnt been selected yet.

Travel and childcare are legit reasons to being unable to take up a role

Connacht15

gauchesnell wrote: »

no worries. Have you been advised it would be your local social welfare office? It could be anywhere where there is demand.

I am sure a lot of people will have childcare and travel restrictions so they have to take into consideration that aswell. It could also be working from home - just a different workplace.

If you have received confirmation of your new place I would contact forsa or your manager if it doesnt suit. Civil and public sector are huge areas. As mentioned my workplace/sector hasnt been selected yet.

Travel and childcare are legit reasons to being unable to take up a role

The 2 big areas where redeployment to is likely are The HSE and Social Welfare for sure!

Many thanks for your post.

gauchesnell

well best of luck with it. I hope they consider your case

HSE and Welfare are massive areas. I know staff in welfare who are working from home. You probably know some public buildings are being seconded for use for HSE and Welfare so redeployed may mean a new location altogether (I work in education and some of our buildings are being considered).

I hope to be redeployed myself so would be interested in hearing how you got on.

AulWan

Connacht15 wrote: »

I live in a council housing estate and it would be next to impossible for me to work in the local Social Welfare office, even though it's essentially a bank for the layabouts who live in the estate!

Have you been told to go to your local social welfare office?

I used to work in social welfare (albeit a few years ago now) and back then they didn't usually allow people from the local area to work in the local office.

However, these are unusual times. If your are, its not very likely you would be in a face-to-face role, more likely back office processing work.

thenightman

Technocentral wrote: »

I haven't being so far but expect to be redeployed at some stage, I currently walk into work (50 minutes) as I won't go on buses or luas at this time, I don't cycle or drive so would only accept redeployment within reasonable walking distance. (an hour or so from Ringsend where I live).

That's borderline ridiculous. I'd be embarrassed to have an attitude like you. There's doctors, nurses and Gardai I know who still have to use public transport to get to work. What makes you so special?

If you have a compromised immune system or another genuine reason you cannot use public transport to get to a job location, then get certified by a doctor of being unable to commute. Otherwise, suck it up and do what you're being paid to do by the state in a time of national crisis. Jesus like.

Mrs OBumble

thenightman wrote: »

That's borderline ridiculous. I'd be embarrassed to have an attitude like you. There's doctors, nurses and Gardai I know who still have to use public transport to get to work. What makes you so special?

If you have a compromised immune system or another genuine reason you cannot use public transport to get to a job location, then get certified by a doctor of being unable to commute. Otherwise, suck it up and do what you're being paid to do by the state in a time of national crisis. Jesus like.

This.

Worst case, go down to Tesco and buy yourself some big-boy pants.

(Yes, I'm working in an essential industry and have been catching the bus to get to work on the days when it's been necessary to get into the office.)

FluffPiece

Fill out the PAS questionnaire and see what they come back with first. It could be a work from home arrangement

Technocentral

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This.

Worst case, go down to Tesco and buy yourself some big-boy pants.

(Yes, I'm working in an essential industry and have been catching the bus to get to work on the days when it's been necessary to get into the office.)

No problem doing my bit, I suffer from bronchitis and would be worried about that.

gauchesnell

that would be a question of being in a vulnerable category though....reread the forsa stuff as it is actually quite good.

redeployment could be anywhere - not necessarily a place you know and with all the safety precautions that possible. Could be redeployed but remaining work from home as mentioned already.

I work in a university and the our buildings are potentially being taken over so even if it is outside your home it could be a local public building.

Deirdre5

I want to redeploy as well (work in public sector) but afraid of the disciplinary mention in the outline if you refuse what is offered... I would take anything but there could be some reason I can't take up what is offered to me and I'm afraid I'll get some kind of punishment?!

AulWan

New guidelines were issued today. Link here to the PDF.

Most of your questions are answered in Section 3.

jadie

The circulars aren’t addressing the discipline question. I’m not sure now they will be any way accomodating. I’ve been placed with HSE but waiting to hear more.

Reputable Rog

EO2019 wrote: »

Are you civil or public sector? I know the rules in the civil sector and non commercial state bodies surrounding redeployment are “ People may be moved to positions within 45km of their current work address or home address, whichever is the shorter, ” and “ In the case of the Civil Service, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform can redeploy Civil Servants to meet priority needs (including levies of staff where necessary). Where functions are transferred within or between areas of the Civil or Public Service, associated staff will normally also transfer if a corresponding need has been identified.”

45 km radius

FluffPiece

Deirdre5 wrote: »

I want to redeploy as well (work in public sector) but afraid of the disciplinary mention in the outline if you refuse what is offered... I would take anything but there could be some reason I can't take up what is offered to me and I'm afraid I'll get some kind of punishment?!

Basically what will happen if you refuse is, you'll have to use up paid leave such as annual leave if you want to be paid. If you run out or don't want to use it, you will be unpaid for however long you are unavailable for work.

You won't be entitled to the €350 a week payment either if you don't engage with the process either as your job is still there, you will have been deemed to made yourself unavailable.

Honestly, if you are being asked to fill out the questionnaire, it's in your interests to do it. Until you get any redeployment notification, you will get special leave paid whilst out of work. You could be redeployed within your own organisation anyway manning the community support lines or working from home doing contact tracing.

Also, from what I gather, they will take any of your concerns into account and will try to accommodate people being redeployed as much as possible. I would assume refusal to engage will be for people who won't engage in the process at all (i.e completing the PAS questionnaire ) or those who refuse several offers. If you refuse the first position, they will probably offer you another arrangement if they can.

AulWan

jadie wrote: »

The circulars aren’t addressing the discipline question. I’m not sure now they will be any way accomodating. I’ve been placed with HSE but waiting to hear more.

I think they will be somewhat accomodating, but I think it will be limited. Discipline will come in the form of loss of pay - eventually.

I noticed as well in section 3 that as of today, the rules on flexi working hours are changing too. I need to clarify with HR, how I'm reading it, it looks ike
extra hours accrued while working from home, will not be allowed.

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Document is here

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/092fff-update-on-working-arrangements-and-leave-associated-with-covid-19-fo/

FluffPiece

AulWan wrote: »

I think they will be somewhat accomodating, but I think it will be limited. Discipline will come in the form of loss of pay - eventually.

I noticed as well in section 3 that as of today, the rules on flexi working hours are changing too. I need to clarify with HR, how I'm reading it, it looks ike
extra hours accrued while working from home, will not be allowed.

Some places are doing business absence for any days worked at home so no flexi can accrue. I'd imagine something similar will get rolled out across the board

yenom

Connacht15 wrote: »

I live in a council housing estate and it would be next to impossible for me to work in the local Social Welfare office, even though it's essentially a bank for the layabouts who live in the estate!

I worked in my local welfare office and I wasn't the only one. There was a few working with me that lived in the local area and worked there. You'd always see the customers in the local shops and pubs etc. Whatever about childcare and travel distance, this is not grounds for not being suitable.

beauf

FluffPiece wrote: »

Some places are doing business absence for any days worked at home so no flexi can accrue. I'd imagine something similar will get rolled out across the board

Already has.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1129628/

AulWan

beauf wrote: »

Already has.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1129628/

Yes, this is what I was referring to when I posted yesterday. They kind of slid that one in under the radar. (As they do).

I personally wont be impacted but I wonder how suspending flexitime will work with staggering work hours for people with child care to consider as well and such. So I am presuming (again, it needs to be clarified with local HR) that people have to work their required hours but core times will still be flexible to allow staggering of work.

FluffPiece

That will be a question I'd be interested in knowing the answer to as well on Tuesday.

beauf

Flexi time doesn't work if you can't dictate the specific goes you can work. You might not be able to work during parts day, if you are looking after other people or kids etc but might catch up in the evening or weekend outside of normal Flexi time hours.

If you run up a deficit of hours it might take a very long time to work it back. It's a lot of stress and pressure exactly at the worst time.

AulWan

Exactly. I've no young kids so working normal hours is okay for me, but there are others in my section trying to work around kids as their childcare is gone and its very difficult on them.

Chaos Black

On the other hand if you work in a very busy area you're now not getting any time built up when you have to work longer hours due to business requirements. So some people can now work shorter days where others will be doing longer one's.

I don't think a broad brush approach was correct but can understand the logic given the current circumstances.

As far as I know with re-deployments you go where you're sent as they don't have time to negotiate with people but I am sure some flexibility still exists even if not at an official level. PAS staff are human as well. I would not consider an unwillingness to take public transport as a reason though myself but you may think otherwise. The reason they are using public and civil servants I assume is because we are already vetted and on the payroll system so from a logistical point it is easier to re-deploy rather then bringing in volunteers (I am sure they are doing that as well).

beauf

Chaos Black wrote: »

On the other hand if you work in a very busy area you're now not getting any time built up when you have to work longer hours due to business requirements. So some people can now work shorter days where others will be doing longer one's. ....

If thats all the same area, that's a problem of load balancing and project management.
Different areas being different at different times well thats life.
Then there's this whole national emergency thing. Kinda different times.

The problem with Flexi-Time is that is actually pretty inflexible depending on how its administered.

AulWan

I won't work up extra hours while flexi time is suspended. I'll just do my required number of hours + lunch.

Reputable Rog

[quote="PAS staff are human as well”[/quote]

Quote of the day. PAS are a disastrous, highly incompetent organisation.

An Ri rua

Technocentral wrote: »

No problem doing my bit, I suffer from bronchitis and would be worried about that.

You're 100% entitled to have stated your case as you did without having aspersions cast at you.

jadie

Agree on PAS, they seem very incompetent. I can’t get an answer from them just directed to those useless vague circulars

Nigel Fairservice

AulWan wrote: »

I think they will be somewhat accomodating, but I think it will be limited. Discipline will come in the form of loss of pay - eventually.

I noticed as well in section 3 that as of today, the rules on flexi working hours are changing too. I need to clarify with HR, how I'm reading it, it looks ike
extra hours accrued while working from home, will not be allowed.

No flexi in operation if working from home. I guess people will just work as closely to 7:24 as possible.

Connacht15

yenom wrote: »

I worked in my local welfare office and I wasn't the only one. There was a few working with me that lived in the local area and worked there. You'd always see the customers in the local shops and pubs etc. Whatever about childcare and travel distance, this is not grounds for not being suitable.

Yes but were you living in a rough council estate where over the years a few petrol bombs have been lobbed through front windows and there has been shootings. And of course, it's full of folk who despite being able to have never done a formal day"s work in their lives!
And of course, we have a few social welfare millionaires as well!
That's where I live!

AulWan

Connacht15 wrote: »

Yes but were you living in a rough council estate where over the years a few petrol bombs have been lobbed throw front windows and there has been shootings. And of course, it's full of folk who despite being able to have never done a formal day"s work in their lives!
And of course, we have a few social wellfare millionaires as well!
That's where I live!

If you were backoffice, the locals wouldn't even know. Where I worked had a staff entrance and a separate entrance for the public. They are not going to put untrained staff on a public facing hatch. If by chance you were asked to go to SW, it will be processing claims work.

Anyway, SW are first asking for staff who formerly worked in SW and know their systems to volunteer to return. I would have, but due to underlying conditions and my own Dept unwilling to release me, I can't, as I'm covering for most of my own section who don't have remote access (I do).

Mrs OBumble

Technocentral wrote: »

No problem doing my bit, I suffer from bronchitis and would be worried about that.

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

An Ri rua

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

That is NOT the guidance being given to POs, head of branches/units in the current crisis. In fact, the employer had a clear duty of care to canvass their workforce to see who had a health risk Vis a Viz this infectious disease. As a result, a number of genuine parties, in addition to a number of seasoned 'players' withdrew from the chessboard.

A party with an autoimmune disorder or HIV or cancer etc etc that did not have need to notify their line manager before now HAS been requested to do so as part of the Civil Service's duty of care as an employer. Bronchitis may not qualify but that is the domain of the poster's GP, not the employer and certainly not a self-ordained authority on Boards.

The scenario that you are painting here is incorrect. Can you indicate please which circular you are misinterpreting?

kravmaga

Connacht15 wrote: »

If a public sector worker has received a notice of redeployment during the current Covid 19 crisis, what rights do they have especially if -


The new department is completely unsuitable.
The new location is not reachable within reason.



Thanks for your answers in advance.

Hi OP, did you complete the online form? Pas will contact you via email if you have been selected for Temporary assignment

I know that the 2 areas where they badly need staff is the HSE and DSP.

HSE more than likely need Admin for contact tracing or data input, telephone calls etc. If your living on the Northside of Dublin you may be placed at the Nursing building this is for staff of the HSE Call centre hub.


On the Glasnevin Campus, Residences,the Nursing building (for Call Centre and HSE Clinical Hub staff and volunteers only) and the Estates Office on the Glasnevin campus will remain open.


If you have issues with a temporary assignment why dont you consult your Union rep for further clarification.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/covid19/temporary-assignment

Nigel Fairservice

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

Someone having bronchitis wouldn't necessarily mean they have inadequate health to carry out the job. Bronchitis can be well managed in normal times and generally wouldn't be serious enough to keep a young and relatvely fit person out of work. However, seeing as Covid 19 can result in pneumonia I can well understand why someone with bronchitis would be apprehensive about going to work on public transport. I'm not sure anyone could have had a discussion with their manager before March about what their options would be in a global pandemic.

Reputable Rog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

Would you ever get a grip. People develop conditions that don’t hinder their current jobs. How could they have predicted a global pandemic?
Also when you do your medical or fill out the questionnaire it’s generally role specific.