Problems with garage sale

Doyler92

Hello everybody. I’ve had an awful two days with a car I bought from a garage. I won’t name the garage just yet. I’m looking for any advice that anybody can give me. I’m not looking for legal advice unless it’s permitted here. So here goes:

I went out to look at a car and saw what I thought was a reasonably priced 2005 BMW. The sales manager told us it was in perfect condition with still a reasonable amount of NCT left on it. I was willing to accept there may be some small issues with it due to its age. I took it for a test drive around some smaller roads and a small section of the M50. As we were going onto the M50 the ABS and handbrake lights came on and wouldn’t go off. The sales manager told us it would reset itself and go off which I accepted. I was still happy enough with the conditions of the sale so we went inside to exchange the cash and fill in the documents.

He took out this large scale receipt book and started filling in my details on it. It was one of the duplicate/triplicate books. He was saying that due to the current situation that hand written form will be enough in case the guards stop me to cover the tax which was out of date and the change of ownership which hasn’t yet been processed. I never filled in a lot book (which I cannot remember the exact excuse that was used for it)

I then drove it home. My route was a reasonably long way along the M50. As I started to go a higher speed the engine light came on and the car started shaking and felt like it was losing power. I made it home and decided to investigate. I will admit I really only know how to drive a car. I don’t know the ins and outs in relation to what’s under the bonnet.

When I got home I showed my brother who has the same model car. He showed me a big build up of oil at the bottom of the car. I went straight back over to the garage with the car and they said they would look into it. I went off for an hour and then got a call from them. They told me the (please excuse my knowledge of this) rocket cover gasket seal has burst and the oil has went onto the spark plugs and that’s what was causing the engine light to come on. He said I had to leave the car with him as they would have to go to the motor factors first thing in the morning to buy a new one and they would install it straight away. He said to come back around 12 in the afternoon to collect it.

I texted him this morning at 8:30 saying I believe this is going to cause more issues in the near future and would rather a refund. I got no response. So I decided to drive over at 12pm. I got told the work hasn’t even started yet. The mechanic had to go off and do a breakdown somewhere else. He said it will be done between 3 and 4pm and the mechanic ensured the sales man that it’s not a big job.

We hear nothing back yet again and we call them at 5:30pm. I get told by the owner that the part has arrived and they are working on it. He tells me that they are going to take it for a test drive after and will drop it over to my house when it’s done. They will now drop it out at 11am the next day.

I don’t know what they are planning to do with the log book as I haven’t signed it and because they didn’t ask me to sign it I believe it’s not there.

I know I really messed up with this one. I paid in cash and let the handwritten receipt in the glove compartment of the car.

I’m going back over at 11am to collect the car.

I would love if anybody could give me any advice regarding this situation or point me in the right direction.

Many thanks for your help!

Tails142

Rocker cover gasket, leaking oil, sounds standard enough, welcome to BMW ownership! Had a similar issue on a 528i years ago.

If the garage are sorting it, it should be fine, I can guarantee you it won't be the last problem you have with that car. At least this one isn't going to cost you a wad of cash to fix.

Doyler92

You’re right. As soon as I bought it I regretted it and that’s not because of the problems with it now. I only plan to keep it for a couple of months until I get back on my feet financially.

SmartinMartin

I'm guessing it's a 520d or 320d, awful engines with well known issues. Get out of the deal anyway you can because you will never be able to sell it on, unless you find another you of course.

ITman88

To be fair the garage are sorting this issue, they are under restrictions as well right now. The garage aren’t the issue here. The car is. As above sell when you can if you can’t get out of the deal

Doyler92

Thank you for your replies. I don’t believed they are obliged to give a refund. I don’t think they have done anything wrong in a legal sense other than give me the run around with when the car will be ready.

The car is a BMW 320 320I ES if it makes any difference.

Is it not an issue if they do not have a log book there for me to sign though?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Garages do the change of ownership online, so the lack of a log book signature wouldn’t worry me

Toyotafanboi

"There's nothing more expensive than a cheap BMW". Sounds like you ignored a lot of due diligence on your own part IMO.

The garage are obviously a bit dodge, they shouldn't be open at all for sales or service and nonsense like this is a lot of the reason why.

The change of ownership will come through I'd be confident of that but technically nothing covers you for not being taxed.

Best thing to do would be to pester them into a refund, or hope that they fix the fault without cutting too many corners.

Doyler92

I did disregard a lot of knowledge I had and I regret it. I will be trying for a refund but looking extremely unlikely.

Out of curiosity how much do you think would be a fair price for me to sell this on for in a private sale when I get it?

bazz26

In the current climate, alot less than you paid for it if someone even buys it at all.

Doyler92

Small update for anybody who is remotely interested in the situation.

We went back over at 11am this morning and got told there is about an hour more work to do on it as they found another issue with the water filter and they are fixing that too. They also had an ABS sensor so they’re fixing that also.

The sales man tells me he has to go collect another car in Dundrum in an hour and will be dropping my car over to my house then. Perfect!

Only that’s not how it went. He sent me a small video of him test driving it. I texted back asking when will they be dropping it over. I then get this response “ I don't no he is just checking to make sure everything is grand with before it goes back to ya will give ya a shout in a bit ok”. I told him I had made plans as I was ensured (for the fourth time) the car will be on the way and I get this response “ Yes if the car was ready Glenn listin the car will dropped you house when it's ready and that end of it ok I will call you when I'm on the way over .”

It’s now become a joke with the amount of times they have deferred me.

I know they have legally done nothing wrong but it’s gone a bit ridiculous now. Their website says they are open until 4pm today but I have very little faith that I will actually get the car this weekend. I think it will be Monday or Tuesday before the car actually arrives.

I paid for the car on 02/04 and looks like it will be closer to a week before it arrives.

Oops!

Relax will you.... At least they are sorting the problems for you... They could of just ran you after the sale. It's a 15 year old car, and a BMW at that. I'm 20 years in the trade, i know situations like this are as big a ball ache for the seller as much as the buyer, made even worse by the current times we are in.

SmartinMartin

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I'm guessing it's a 520d or 320d, awful engines with well known issues. Get out of the deal anyway you can because you will never be able to sell it on, unless you find another you of course.

Op mentioned oil in spark plugs.

Darc19

Apologies op, but you seem very young and inexperienced in how the world works.

Things get delayed. Emergencies happen.

You seem to have bought the car just 2 days ago.

I dread to think your reaction if you had a real emergency, as what you are experiencing here is reasonably normal in what life throws at you.

Chill

Oops!

Befriend a mechanic, it pays in the long run! It always amazes me when people head off to buy a car either privately or from the trade with a wedge of cash and will in most cases freely admit to not having a clue about cars or the process! I mean i wouldn't rock up to the local mart on a monday morning and start buying cattle simply because i liked the look of them! I'd bring somebody that knew what they were looking at if that's what i was willing to invest my hard earned cash on.

Iodine1

I think you should hold off a little too, as it's an old car with what sounds like a poor reputation so they might want rid of the car too. So they are trying to get the car reasonably right so you go away. And the next breakdown is clearly your problem. You really are at their mercy as they have the money and on that age guarantees are nothing. I doubt they will hold the car on you, it's not worth the hassle that would create.

Casati

I don’t know how dealers sell cars like these and stay in business, the amount of problems a 15 year old 3 series could have is endless. The OP needs to remember it’s a 15 year old car here and has to give the garage reasonable attempt at fixing it - my guess is that the mechanic found a tonne of other issues when he started this repair

phill106

I would let the garage fix any issues they find with it now. Anyone they find now is another one you dont have to worry about in the short term.
It will take as long as it takes.
It sounds like they are doing the best they can to rectify the issues, if you had bought privately you would be up sh*t creek now.

Doyler92

Thanks to everybody who responded. I have another update to this situation.

I got a phone call from the garage saying they are dropping the car over to my house. I took it out for a test drive and every light that was on before the apparent work got done on it came back on again.

It was in the same condition driving that felt like it was losing power. I drove it straight back over to the garage and I brought the mechanic out for a test drive in it.

He noticed it was misfiring and thought it was the “coil from cylinder 1” (please excuse my knowledge yet again). We brought it back to the garage and he hooked it up to the diagnostic machine. That said something about the coil and also something about the camshaft. There was also 4 other faults which I couldn’t see.

When we were out on the test drive the mechanic told me he isn’t even qualified and isn’t even in the middle of his apprenticeship. Is this legal?

The sales manager then proceeded to tell me the car is roadworthy which I argued that it can’t be with it misfiring and the engine light on.

He then said he’s going to give it to another mechanic and change the coil and that will fix the engine light.

Even though they said they replaced the ABS sensor it came back on during a casual test drive.

Now they have the car again and will call me when they say the work is fixed.

Casati

Coils are a weakness on the 2.0 petrol BMW so all four probably should be replaced. I’d imagine they reset the ABS sensor light rather than the sensor. I think you need to start saying you’d prefer your money back if they can’t fix it but you might have a battle.

colm_mcm

Roadworthy = pass an nct
Merchantable quality is different.

Doyler92

I know there is no chance of getting my money back so I’ve already ruled that out.

I am fed up at this stage and will just send it back if the engine light does come on again.

@ Colm I never thought of using that simple illustration as to roadworthy or not. I’ll use that next time.

Thanks again guys!

L-M

How much did you pay for it?

I’ve had a few of those petrol E46s in the past. Unfortunately if they’re a pig they’re a pig and very little that can be done.

TheW1zard

It wouldnt pass an nct with warning lights would it? Therefore not roadworthy?

GavMan

At this point, you might be better off agreeing what it might cost to fix the issues with the garage, say a grand, and seek that back as a partial refund and bring it to a competent independent BMW specialist (of which there are many) and let them resolve the issue professionally and put the money towards covering at least most of the issues and then writing off everything else as a lesson hard learned.

At the end of the day, do you really want an apprentice unsupervised messing around with your ABS?

Heres Johnny

GavMan wrote: »

At this point, you might be better off agreeing what it might cost to fix the issues with the garage, say a grand, and seek that back as a partial refund and bring it to a competent independent BMW specialist (of which there are many) and let them resolve the issue professionally and put the money towards covering at least most of the issues and then writing off everything else as a lesson hard learned.

At the end of the day, do you really want an apprentice unsupervised messing around with your ABS?

The car shouldn't have been much more than a grand anyway, I hope not anyway for a 15 year old car. I could only get 2k for a 12 year old e60 523i msport in 2018 and the same for a 12 year old e39 525i msport in 2016,and they were both good ones.

GavMan

Heres Johnny wrote: »

The car shouldn't have been much more than a grand anyway, I hope not anyway for a 15 year old car. I could only get 2k for a 12 year old e60 523i msport in 2018 and the same for a 12 year old e39 525i msport in 2016,and they were both good ones.

Its kind of irrelevant what it should or shouldn't have been sold for. They probably shouldn't have sold it in the first place with an ABS light coming on but thats neither here nor there.

They aren't going to give a full refund so IMO, its best the OP recover the costs the garage would have to layout to fix this by and take it to a professional, qualified mechanic and move on and learn his lesson

Doyler92

Another small update:

I had dropped the car back to be repaired after been told it was a different problem over a week ago and was told “don’t contact us, we will contact you when it’s fixed”. Usually I would say fair enough but it’s been exactly two weeks since I bought the car and over a week since I dropped it back. I’ve not heard any update of it’s status.

TheW1zard

Doyler92 wrote: »

Another small update:

I had dropped the car back to be repaired after been told it was a different problem over a week ago and was told “don’t contact us, we will contact you when it’s fixed”. Usually I would say fair enough but it’s been exactly two weeks since I bought the car and over a week since I dropped it back. I’ve not heard any update of it’s status.

Sounds like its fcked!

Toyotafanboi

This whole scenario is a farce really.

Doyler92

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

This whole scenario is a farce really.

I wish I could say it was an April fools joke but unfortunate it’s been the reality with the situation.

road_high

No offence intended. But warning lights come on while test driving a notoriously problematic of its era and expensive to fix knackered old BMW. That was your warning signal. Should definitely be a case of caveat emptor and fair play to the garage for trying to sort

The Bishop Basher

It doesn’t sound like they are genuinely trying to sort it though.

The only car I’ve ever returned was a 532i that kept spitting oil all over the engine.

I reckon it had over heated at some point and it was never going to be right.

Gave them a few chances to sort it before getting 90% of my cash back.

Doyler92

Exactly. I don’t think they are genuinely fixing the problem of the engine light coming on when driving.

ratracer

Have you asked for your money back?

Doyler92

ratracer wrote: »

Have you asked for your money back?

Yes around 4 or 5 times and they keep telling me I’m not getting my money back.

Ultimanemo

Doyler92 wrote: »

Yes around 4 or 5 times and they keep telling me I’m not getting my money back.

Try to complain to Small Claims Court as they sold you faulty car to start with.

FrankC21

I feel you man, you should have done a lot of research before spending your hard earned money.

Did you not glance through the bangermonics section in here? Or asked for advice before you bought the car?

Do you really need a car badly? Why did you even buy a car during this time? Should have waited man til this whole restriction over, car prices will go down and would have made a bargain.

You should have bought something small like a fiesta or clio.

Ultimanemo

Ask them to give you a voucher or another car while threatening them with small claim court.

Effects

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Ask them to give you a voucher.

That's not a great idea. At least with the BMW you have the car in your possession. A voucher is essentially worthless.

millington

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I'm guessing it's a 520d or 320d, awful engines with well known issues. Get out of the deal anyway you can because you will never be able to sell it on, unless you find another you of course.

2005 320d or 520d would be an M47 engine which are very reliable. Neither of which have spark plugs so the OPs car is petrol.

Regardless of this, car sounds like an absolute lemon and I wouldn't trust any dealer that lets a car out like that in the first place.

Ultimanemo

Effects wrote: »

That's not a great idea. At least with the BMW you have the car in your possession. A voucher is essentially worthless.

You can use the voucher to buy another car "another brand" from the same garage, an old BMW is expensive car to maintain

punisher5112

Honestly who buys a 15 year old car from a dealership????

I'm actually stumped!!!

It's an old car, well used, not worth paying big money on an old car....

If you want something cheap and that old go for an avensis or corolla or similar.

Doyler92

I did admit I made a hasty decision and the wrong decision but that doesn’t change the situation.

It’s been exactly 3 weeks now since I bought the car and still have driven it for only 20 minutes...

Garage probably fooked now anyway, they'll likely not be selling much for the foreseeable. Fingers crossed they sort it or if not it's not too much to get sorted elsewhere.

Ultimanemo

Doyler92 wrote: »

I did admit I made a hasty decision and the wrong decision but that doesn’t change the situation.

If I had to pay for all the mistakes I made I would be dead long time ago.

farna_boy

I had a 525i up until a few months ago and like yours, the rocker cover gasket went. I replaced it myself but from my research in doing so, most people recommended also changing the oil filter housing gaskets and valvetronic gaskets at the same time. Also, depending on the engine, when you change the rocker cover gasket, you have to change the bolts holding it on as they are single use only.

Next time you are talking to the garage it might be worth mentioning this to them.

At this stage I would nearly want everything in writing from them because they sound dodgy so maybe an email would be better if possible, in case you want to take it to court at any stage.

If they do manage to fix everything I would get rid of it as soon as possible.Either trade it in or do a private deal.

It might be tempting to get as much out of your warranty as possible but I don't think I could ever trust it again.

Even if you got the exact same car it might be worth it as now you know all the questions to ask and what to look out for.

TheW1zard

How much was the car?
Just wondering the amount of work going into it must be close to the price by now

Doyler92

Yes I’m going to try get everything in writing from now on.

I payed €1,200 for it and I still have this niggling feeling that they are not doing any work on it at all. They are not even a member of SIMI which to me is a bad sign straight away.

bazz26

Being a member of the SIMI means nothing for the consumer, they are just a lobby group made up of member dealers.

Unfortunately when buying at this end of the market from dealers there is a high risk in what you are buying as well as who you are buying from. Dealers selling €1200 cars are not going to spend much money on repairing them and the warranties that come with them can be practically worthless. Chances are that car was passed down through the trade as a cast off and lemon, the dealer most likely doesn't know what's wrong with it and ain't going to spend much time or money to fix it.

Doyler92

I agree that they probably won’t spend much money to fix it but they have had it over 3 weeks now!