E Class corroded subframe

pcardin

Sorry guys, did not want to drag an old thread up from dead but this new Boards version does not permit me to PM directly to the OP here. And issue is similar.

I own a 2011 Mercedes CLS, original Irish car originally sold here by MSL but not to me obviously. Bought it in March 2020 from a dealer just a day before our first lockdown. Car had a pretty fresh NCT, expired only now. Went for a test tonight, failed on excessive corrosion on rear subframe. Dangerous to drive sticker in windshield and on the back of trailer home. I am still gobsmacked.

This is certainly the best car I ever own and from 40+ cars in my liftime none of them ever had a defect this bad. Even 20+ years old bangers I used to buy for 400-500 quid never had rust issues. Certainly did not expect from a 10 year old luxury car such a fail.

Now, I just want an advise on what to do next. I am giving a call to MSL tomorrow but wanted to know what to tell them? Any advise appreciated.

galwaytt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148617#Comment_118148617

You should have no problem getting it done under M-B warranty.

My brother has just had his 2010 E-Class done by Hogan Motors in Limerick under M-B warranty, and it's a known & recognised problem. If a particular dealer isn't playing ball with you on it, find another.

Car went in on 16th October and he's getting it back tomorrow, all span new factory parts underneath, so a month all-in is very quick imho: we were expecting it to be off the road for 2 months+

Markcheese

I suppose it's in the garages interest to "do the work" it's Mercedes who are paying after all , and if it's seen as the garage speaking up for the car , owner they've a good chance to turn a quality control "loss" , into a customer relations " win ",

But to start I'd be asking nicely rather than demanding rudely...😉

pcardin

Got in touch with dealer today and they were not surprised at all and basically confirmed it is a known issue. I have to book my car in for inspection, they inspect and photograph the subframe and then send information to Mercedes. Mercedes then decide either yay or nay and then dealer fixes it. IN case of yay its on them, if they say no then its on me. Problem is until I drop the car to them and they do the inspection I wont know the answer but at the same time they sort of arest my car, meaning they will not give it back to me until its fixed as it is not road legal. But that in turns mean that if Mercedes say no all charges are on me and I can not really afford it tbh and I wont get my car back. Also, turns out there is an open recall on my car for a different software related issue.

Al in all, if a car is dropped to them it is 2 weeks waiting time from today only for appointment and they mentioned part itself is 8 weeks waiting time. So I am looking to be without my car for at least 3 months which is not geat as I need a car for school runs every day.

Altough 10 years old my car is spotless otherwise, did not fail on anything else, not a single rust anywhere else. According to tester, subframe is just manufactured from a bad metal. This clearly is a manufacturers issue no?

NickNickleby

Hi pcardin, OP here.

I can't really add a lot to what occurred in my case, and I think its pretty well laid out in my posts.

But I'll have to add this: since then a couple of other big jobs have been done on the front suspensions - not freebies. Ok, that's all good and the car doesn't creak or crack while out driving. But, recently I've noticed a different 'note' to the driving sound which will get attention at an upcoming service. I'm thinking this will not be cheap, perhaps its God's way of telling me to go EV. I'm suspecting a bearing - not that I care at this stage. Which is a real shame, because the car looks great and feels great.

Finally, whichever Main Dealer you approach, essentially they (as I understand it) have the final say. It may appear from my original report that I took a robust approach with my one, but while I was seething inside, I was all sweetness and light at the time. I suspect had I been a pain in the ass about it, I might well have walked away with nothing. So, softly softly is my advice.

Good luck.

NickNickleby

Hi pcardin,

I'm a slow typist, so you posted your update while I was contemplating mine 😕.

Look back through the thread, and you'll see that I had the same concern about mine (will they release it?) . You'll see that Toyotafanboi says that most likely they'll release the car IF you sign a waiver to absolve them of any and all responsibility when they give it back to you. By law, of course you'd have to take it away on a trailer.

But before we all start to panic, my main dealer told me it would have cost in the region of 1500 if I'd had to pay for it. Which was way lower than I had thought. And when the value of the car is considered, its worth it, the alternative being to sell the car as is and get next to nothing for it (in my unqualified opinion).

So , all is not lost yet.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152085#Comment_118152085

Oh no guys, I am not being arse to the dealer. And so far I have no reason to be an arse yet, They did hear me out and explained what the process is, what they will do and so on. Last night I was searching through the wild wild web and found that this subframe issue is well known to Mercedes all over the world for certain models manufactured during certain time frame, and there apparently was even a recall on this issue done by Mercedes in UK. Couldnt find anything saying that same recall happene in Ireland (which is strange).

Your sucess story, and many other I found on web, for now calms me a little, there is a hope. Right now I am just shocked to see such a damage on a lxury car. And I love this car which makes me even more pissed. And now trying to find a replacement car in the absolutely wrong time of the year is another pain. And all before Xmas. Lol.

1500 E sounds not too bad but dont know if its trough. At least in UK forums a lot mentioned that subframe from MB original alone costs £1600.00, with all the labour involved stretching to 3-4k. Ouch. Also, all similar stories had either a C-class or E-class cars involved, same vintage as mine though. But no CLS. Which is strange as I think body and interior is what difers W212 and W218, rest must be the same.

NickNickleby

Don't worry pcardin, you don't write like a nasty person, I was just saying that I didn't use the big stick approach, in case anyone suspected I was trying to be the big guy.

I, too, was surprised at the suggested price - but perhaps he was just referring to the price of the part. (although he didn't say so, but I wasn't hanging around to be handed a bill for labour 😨😂).

Anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. As someone else said, this is a win for the main dealer, as they get the job, with payment guaranteed, so that should work in your favour.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152529#Comment_118152529

Fingers crossed. Cheers!

aktas

My E class 2011, 186k miles failed its NCT due to subframe corrosion. Had it checked with my car guy and he said he wouldn't drive the car. So I have been onto a main dealer and they want to inspect it and consider warranty cover. Must say that I am quite concerned to read online that this is a known problem but no recall. Suppose someone has to die first?

aktas

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Odelay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118246837#Comment_118246837

Thats bad.. I wouldn't fancy driving that. Hopefully the main dealer will sort you out.

pcardin

I am bringing mine in tomorrow. Fingers crossed they will own it up. Ridiculous quality. And Ireland doesnt even experience snowy winters with salty roads.

aktas

Got onto a merc dealer. They have over 20 cars booked in for subframe replacement. Good news is its free if car hasn't been clocked. Can't imagine how many cars nationwide being groomed for subframe replacement.....seems NCT inspections are now looking for subframe corrosion.

pcardin

I got good news back from Mercedes dealer that they are replacing a subframe on my car as a goodwill gesture. Thats about 3k saved. There is a backlog on the part so I will have to wait between 1-3 months until I get it back. Then NCT all over again.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247544#Comment_118247544

Salt thing isn't true anymore. We used to use grit and molasses in ye-olde days but its been salt and grit for a decade or more.

Not as often as in some other countries but I hear the gritter out any decently cold night. Actually surprised I haven't heard it go past tonight.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280693#Comment_118280693

yes sure, and I come from country with harsh winters and salted roads to keep them clear which results most of todays cars rusting like buckets after within their first 5-10 years from new.

This corrosion is however not a case of salt on the roads. There is not a single rust spot on my car and then there is a subframe that is not rusty but so corroded that the only thing that still holds it to the car is some sort of witchcraft. In this case I believe its just a bad metal which Mercedes bought it from Fiat who had some unused stock of that unfamous Soviet metal they got in early 70ties.

NickNickleby

@pcardin ; @aktas

Great news guys. I'd say this is quite a hit for Mercedes. Its a real pity, because I have to say the W212 is a beautiful car.

Somewhat unrelated, but I think my exhaust is starting to blow. Perhaps its corroded 😂. So in the six years I've owned mine : corroded brake lines replaced; corroded axle subframe replaced*; front wishbone replaced; front drop-link replaced; exhaust pressure sensor(s) replaced.

(* goodwill job - no charge).

Still, I'll keep it till it falls asunder, or other 'inducements' convert me to electric.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118281463#Comment_118281463

thats quite a list. I am starting to get error messages regarding exhaust pressure sensor, car was running fine, what does it affect? Did your car was also due for a recall on emissions software update?

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293129#Comment_118293129

Someone else might come along here and be more certain about the exhaust pressure sensor. In my case I got an engine warning light, so brought it to a mechanic. He Replaced the sensor and also had to do a DPF regen (basically he drove it across the M50 in low gear with the engine screaming for mercy, while he tweaked something using his STAR device). Apparently the DPF was very full and perhaps the failed sensor and the full DPF were linked - not really sure, but it was mentioned when I was collecting the car. It cost me about 600 euro in total, but has behaved itself ever since.

Turns out the noise I thought was coming from the exhaust is , believe it or not, coming from the gearbox. Its going in tomorrow for a better look. Fingers crossed.

pcardin

Update

Got my mercedes back from dealer, new subframe fitted free of charge and NCT passed.

Leonard Hofstadter

Well fair play to Mercedes for owning it and fixing it. I didn't think they would but I'm delighted for you that they did

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280693#Comment_118280693

This. Ever since the 'big freeze' of 2009 where we didn't have enough grit, they've made sure to have plenty of salt available for the winter and have salted the roads ever since if they think it's cold.

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah they've gone to the other extreme now. Most nights the gritters are out my way it doesn't even freeze at all. This stuff is terrible for the environment as well as corroding the crap out of vehicles.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557458#Comment_118557458

A good news story! Delighted for you.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558625#Comment_118558625

It's a fcuking overtime racket is what it is.

Muckymitts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113322428#Comment_113322428

Hi

I have this exact problem today on same vehicle. I would appreciate any help you can give me and if you could advise what specific garage you dealt with on the issue and any advice you can give me on how to approach them. I am based in Dublin / Kildare area.

Thanks again.

Matt

Wordle

I have a lovely 2012 E220 Diesel

She failed NCT on corroded Sub frame and brake linings. I had recently got it fully Serviced. Obviously it wasn't fully checked by mechanic. I won't be using him again. I contacted Mercedes Benz dealer.They inspected the car and booked it in for repairs. I had it back within three weeks fully repaired at no cost. I got a retest NCT and it passed. Obviously I got a shock initially when it failed, but Mercedes looked after the problem

NickNickleby

Great news Wordle. Keep an eye on it, as rear brake lines were also a problem for me.

I recently got rid of mine as new symptoms appeared (noise from the transmission and loss of power to the wheels (felt like a slipping clutch in a manual car)). Well experienced Merc mechanic asked had I had the transmission fluid replaced. Prior to that, I'd had it serviced twice in a main dealer, and I presume they simply followed the recommended service schedule. However, he said that sticking to the service schedule was no guarantee of keeping the transmission in tip top condition. He suggested the fluid and some other bits should be replaced intermittently in addition to the schedule. Anyway, the 'interim' transmission service did not alleviate the problem - and in complete fairness to the guy he only charged for materials/fluids. I was able to mitigate the problem somewhat by careful use of the accelerator, as in a VERY light right foot. I was very sad when I left it on the forecourt when I traded it in. It looked absolutely beautiful, I'd babied it since 2014, inside and out.

ofcork

Mercedes are beautiful cars always wanted one but their quality is really not good since the 90s.

Dubh Geannain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119281827#Comment_119281827

Here's me considering a 2011-2012 E class for our second family car. The option to turn it into 7 seats is very handy. This thread has been very informative. I'd assume anyone selling this vintage at the moment likely haven't had the subframe replaced and I could be inheriting a big issue at next NCT. I'll be asking the question anyway and looking for the log book.

Other than that. I couldn't find another thread on the car. Most posters here appear to love the car aside from the big issue discussed.