Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

Widdensushi

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So then she’ll have motor tax, insurance, fuel, maintenance costs to pay for. If she buys from a dealer they’ll be paying tax too. All money that will go back into the economy. And in order to pay for the above, she’ll probably go back to that part time job as she can’t get other welfare whilst a student.

should be giving 1000 a week, the economy would be booming

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

The money is going back into the economy to keep the lights.

In an ideal world.

A lot of it will go to pay off outstanding bills, debts and credit cards.

Widdensushi

Widdensushi wrote: »

should be giving 1000 a week, the economy would be booming

She’s a student. She was working at the weekends. This emergency payment won’t be forever.

Wish everyone would stop having a downer on those that lost jobs. They aren’t the long term work shy.

Idbatterim

I know a good few better off now , not working than working! Delighted, take everything you can get! They have been handing out ridiculous amounts and free housing to many for decades. the more these workers take, the less will be handed out to the parasites!

And and back the OP, while I agree with it in a way, of course recently unemployed, it shows you the idiocy of our system, many other countries already have it linked to previous salary! of course linking what you paid into the system, to what you get out for a period, would never fly in this banana republic, certainly not with the govenrment which has lied about rewarding work!

SCOOP 64

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So then she’ll have motor tax, insurance, fuel, maintenance costs to pay for. If she buys from a dealer they’ll be paying tax too. All money that will go back into the economy. And in order to pay for the above, she’ll probably go back to that part time job as she can’t get other welfare whilst a student.

Good point, it will be putting money back into economy which will be badly needed when its all over but this can be said for most of us the only money im spending is on food, no petrol, no take aways, my bank account is looking alot better.

RGARDINR

Just remember I believe this is taxable so when people eventually go back to work come whenever this payment will be coded into their details and when Revenue will do the statement of liability for 2020 next year this will be taken into account.

silver2020

Fred Cryton wrote: »

The 350 a week...applicable to anyone no matter what they were earning previously.


So part time worker on minimum wage doing 25 hours a week, previously taking home 250 euro, now taking home 350 from the government.


Just wondering is Ireland the only country in the world stupid enough to make people better off on welfare than when they were doing some work? Everywhere else seems to tie it to previous earnings. Is Regina Doherty the stupidest human being of all time?


This will have consequences. Not just direct cost. Good luck to restaurants trying to re-open in May, where are they going to get staff if those staff better off on dole!!

What an effin begrudger.

Think of the additional stresses on people. Some may not have a job ot to back to (Debenhams), others may have extra expense especially if they have kids and need to keep them entertained.

But most of all it ensures people will adhere to request of staying put without the worry of paying the basic bills and if giving a fair amount and getting the subsidy out quickly (it was done super quick) means some people will get an extra few bob or a small few will scam it, well so be it.

The vast vast vast majority of people deserve it and appreciate it

Idbatterim

surprised they arent giving it to the long term unemployed here too! RTE will be going mad!

newcavanman

newcavanman wrote: »

I deal with grocery shops, and they are currently have huge issues retaining staff. large numbers of part timers have left and signed on to the government scheme. They dont need any documentation etc from their employer , all people have to do is claim that covid 19 means they cannot work. The scheme is completely bonkers and was a typical Irish Govt knee jerk reaction to a crisis. The result of this, is that afterwards, 350 euro per week, will become the new minimum wage in many peoples mind. I honestly believe it will be a catastrophie for the country

You don't qualify for the covid payment if you have voluntarily left work. Claims are being reviewed before getting approved, and someone claiming to have been laid off from an essential grocery store would raise a red flag. Even if they were to get through now, there could be ramifications down the line when these cases are being reviewed more thoroughly.

Beasty

Threads merged

tscul32

I worked part time and am getting more now than I was when working. It does feel a bit odd, but the reality is that my job will not be one of the first ones back as it involves groups and physical contact. I'm pretty sure I won't be back before the 12 weeks is up. If it takes too long the business may never come back. I wont qualify for the dole either so this payment might be all I'll get this year.
Overall though, I'd rather be working.

Widdensushi

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

She’s a student. She was working at the weekends. This emergency payment won’t be forever.

Wish everyone would stop having a downer on those that lost jobs. They aren’t the long term work shy.

I wasn't having a dig at her,I was having a dig at your description of the boost to the Irish economy from her getting the 350 a week. It sounds like the ultimate stimulus package that everyone would be so much better off that I suggested giving more.

silver2020

The_Brood wrote: »

What's sick is how little full-time employed workers in entry level positions get paid in Ireland, both in public and private service. That's what makes this situation a complete mockery. If 350 a week is the bare minimum needed to survive, why are you paying the bare minimum of survival for people who are working full time? It's amazing how Ireland is championed as some kind of progressive global paradise when few countries screw lower earners worse than this.

actually we are once of the fairest countries for low paid workers.

Those on minimum wage pay ZERO tax.

Have a wee look at other countries. I can't think of one that has a zero tax rate for full time people on minimum wage

Many on minimum wage are part-time / students, housewives who don't want full time work. Those that work full time at minimum wage have a whole range of other supports they can apply for if they qualify

silver2020

Idbatterim wrote: »

surprised they aren't giving it to the long term unemployed here too! RTE Sinn Fein shills will be going mad!

I've corrected that for you

Seve OB

This thread is really derailing. It is supposed to be about the wage subsidy scheme and associated issues but it appears loads of irrelevant stuff is being posted or merged.

What was an informative and helpful thread is becoming a political sess pit. Please take you politics to the political forum or other relevant thread.

Let’s get this one back on track and stick to the wage subsidy scheme.

Widdensushi

Widdensushi wrote: »

I wasn't having a dig at her,I was having a dig at your description of the boost to the Irish economy from her getting the 350 a week. It sounds like the ultimate stimulus package that everyone would be so much better off that I suggested giving more.

Ok.

Just want to add that that student would probably have been working more than one day this weekend if things were as they used to be. Colleges would have closed for Easter and tourists a plenty. So 350 may be close to what many many students earned in the same period last year.

collsoft

Seve OB wrote: »

This thread is really derailing. It is supposed to be about the wage subsidy scheme and associated issues but it appears loads of irrelevant stuff is being posted or merged.

What was an informative and helpful thread is becoming a political sess pit. Please take you politics to the political forum or other relevant thread.

Let’s get this one back on track and stick to the wage subsidy scheme.

I totally agree Seve OB

tina1040

Whether or not students should get the pandemic payment is irrelevant to this thread.

I will be paying April salaries next week and hoping the system is in place on 20th as mentioned before by Revenue to provide the amount of the maximum subsidy for each employee so no guessing.

How are payroll staff getting on with weekly wages calculations and are the subsidies being paid promptly by Revenue as promised?

michellie

Can you apply for a top up to bring you to the €350( which would be almost my weekly wage)

Getting the 70% means I'm actually down €100 a week

Stratvs

tina1040 wrote: »

How are payroll staff getting on with weekly wages calculations and are the subsidies being paid promptly by Revenue as promised?

I have had one employer submit 2 weeks so far and each week the payment from Revenue came within 2 days and also it agreed with the amount expected.

collsoft

tina1040 wrote: »

Whether or not students should get the pandemic payment is irrelevant to this thread.

I will be paying April salaries next week and hoping the system is in place on 20th as mentioned before by Revenue to provide the amount of the maximum subsidy for each employee so no guessing.

How are payroll staff getting on with weekly wages calculations and are the subsidies being paid promptly by Revenue as promised?

Hi Tina,

It looks like Revenue will not be moving to the Operational Phase (Phase 2 in the FAQ) on the 20th as originally planned.

There are a number of items in the primary legislation which requires Ministerial regulations, but these have not been signed as yet.

One of them is the exact amount of subsidy available to an employee where the Average Net Pay is between €586 and €960. The amount of €350 which is currently being used is not actually specified in the legislation and is something that must be specified by the Minister in regulations.

collsoft

Stratvs wrote: »

I have had one employer submit 2 weeks so far and each week the payment from Revenue came within 2 days and also it agreed with the amount expected.

That is absolutely correct, but one thing people need to make a note off is that last Friday and yesterday were not SEPA banking days so anything submitted to Revenue since last Thursday morning is only going on today's bank file and will take up to two working days to process.

So if you made a submission to Revenue on Thursday the 9th April then the earliest you will be paid is tomorrow, and perhaps even Thursday.

FYI, in today's bank file there are

11K Employers
85K Employees
40 million of subsidy payments
4 million of PAYE/USC refunds

And there are still a number of employers who have not given Revenue the correct bank details and cant be paid!!!!!

The_Chap

Getting some excellent queries from some clients! One director believing he should be receiving the wage subsidy refund from the revenue in addition to his salary lol you can’t make it up

IRtax

This is the hidden problem employers paying ‘100%’ of net average pay does not equate to 100% net to the employee if the wage subsidy didn't exist at the end of the year. A lot of people don’t see this. Also people not being put on week one basis means that getting tax back when shouldn’t will end up with about 2k-2.4k tax bill at the end of the year...

Tow

I have seen cases where employees were paying the employer for the pleasure of working. The employees were laid off at the start, a month ago. They did a weeks work and the employer grossed them up to their normal net pay. The tax refund results in a negative gross pay.

Siobh73

If my employer has been inputting the wrong gross pay can this be rectified in subsequent weeks without breaching the "can't top up to more than nett salary" rule?

What they have done is take the €350 top up, used my tax rebate and USC rebate and added enough gross salary to balance at my usual nett weekly wage. From my reading of the scheme, they will be rebated the €350 and also my tax and USC rebate that I haven't received. If they had used the correct top up, my rebates would have been less but should still have been paid to me on top of my nett wage?

The employer has committed to full top ups for the 12 week period. I am concerned if they try to sort this out, it will result in a clawback of any perceived excess by Revenue because they have got it wrong for the past 3 weeks.

Can anyone clarify for me please?

The_Chap

Siobh73 wrote: »

If my employer has been inputting the wrong gross pay can this be rectified in subsequent weeks without breaching the "can't top up to more than nett salary" rule?

What they have done is take the €350 top up, used my tax rebate and USC rebate and added enough gross salary to balance at my usual nett weekly wage. From my reading of the scheme, they will be rebated the €350 and also my tax and USC rebate that I haven't received. If they had used the correct top up, my rebates would have been less but should still have been paid to me on top of my nett wage?

The employer has committed to full top ups for the 12 week period. I am concerned if they try to sort this out, it will result in a clawback of any perceived excess by Revenue because they have got it wrong for the past 3 weeks.

Can anyone clarify for me please?

I would expect any tax/usc/prsi refund should have been paid back to you as it was deducted from you in previous periods

Stratvs

The_Chap wrote: »

I would expect any tax/usc/prsi refund should have been paid back to you as it was deducted from you in previous periods

Correct, any Tax/USC due to the EE is not to be taken into account by the ER in arriving at the gross used. The ER is to use the top up amount as gross taxable pay. If that, because it may be under normal tax credits etc. produces Tax/USC refunds then unless the EE is on W1 basis then that should be paid to the EE in addition to the normal net calc. ( part 4.12 of the FAQs )

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf

mr.wiggle

So what happens to those who are in Category 3, over 960euro/week?
Their company doesn't pay them, social welfare does?
If this is the case, are these employees officially off the companies books?
Will they have to pay back the tax on their Social welfare payment?
Very confusing.

Stratvs

mr.wiggle wrote: »

So what happens to those who are in Category 3, over 960euro/week?
Their company doesn't pay them, social welfare does?
If this is the case, are these employees officially off the companies books?
Will they have to pay back the tax on their Social welfare payment?
Very confusing.

If the employer engages in the TWSS then there is no subsidy for those cases.
If the employer lays them off then they can claim the PUP/JSB.
The PUP/JSB is taxable. If there is no other income at all then tax credits ( not being used as not being paid) will be available and will in many cases cover any tax due.

eh i dunno

If you are layed off and claiming the €350 covid19 payment does this then mean that you have been made redundant? So if the company takes you back on in a month how much redundancy would you be entitled to if the company then closed completely in 6 months? Would your years of service be wiped out having been temporarily layed off?

storker

The_Chap wrote: »

Getting some excellent queries from some clients! One director believing he should be receiving the wage subsidy refund from the revenue in addition to his salary lol you can’t make it up

Probably one of those guys who will criticise other peoples' "sense of entitlement".

Stratvs

eh i dunno wrote: »

If you are layed off and claiming the €350 covid19 payment does this then mean that you have been made redundant? So if the company takes you back on in a month how much redundancy would you be entitled to if the company then closed completely in 6 months? Would your years of service be wiped out having been temporarily layed off?

See the section below on changes to redundancy rules during Covid-19 period.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/lay_off_short_time_working_and_redundancy.html#l99a8e

Your years of service are not affected. But neither can you claim redundancy after more than 4 weeks of layoff during the emergency period.

collsoft

Changes announced to TWSS today by the Minister of Finance

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/c3e1eb-minister-donohoe-announces-update-to-the-temporary-wage-subsidy-sche/

Let the games commence!

The_Chap

collsoft wrote: »

Changes announced to TWSS today by the Minister of Finance

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/c3e1eb-minister-donohoe-announces-update-to-the-temporary-wage-subsidy-sche/

Let the games commence!

wow, so wage subsidy for April payroll being left as is, this only takes effect from May

some people won't be happy!

Stratvs

collsoft wrote: »

Changes announced to TWSS today by the Minister of Finance

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/c3e1eb-minister-donohoe-announces-update-to-the-temporary-wage-subsidy-sche/

Let the games commence!

Someone's going to have a very busy weekend again rejigging software !

collsoft

Stratvs wrote: »

Someone's going to have a very busy weekend again rejigging software !

Well apparently Revenue are doing all the work so I can kick back and enjoy the holidays the same as everybody else

Tow

collsoft wrote: »

Well apparently Revenue are doing all the work so I can kick back and enjoy the holidays the same as everybody else

Phase 2 starts on the 4th of May, which is when Revenue plan to publish individual employee's figures. As employers will not have the required information before hand, there will be no running of payrolls in advance, for payment into accounts on the 4th.

nibtrix

So do the new changes mean that everyone is capped at max €350 subsidy, except for those earning between €500-586 as a net weekly average?

I'm lost again, only just had my head round the scheme as it was!

collsoft

nibtrix wrote: »

So do the new changes mean that everyone is capped at max €350 subsidy, except for those earning between €500-586 as a net weekly average?

I'm lost again, only just had my head round the scheme as it was!

Not quite.

If your Average Net Pay in Jan/Feb is between €500 and €586 then your subsidy is 70% so it will range from €350 to €410

nibtrix

collsoft wrote: »

Not quite.

If your Average Net Pay in Jan/Feb is between €500 and €586 then your subsidy is 70% so it will range from €350 to €410

Sorry, yes, that’s what I meant. So those with an average net weekly pay in Jan/Feb under €412, the subsidy is 85% of pay.

Net pay between €412-€500 the subsidy is €350.

Net pay between €500-586 the subsidy is 70% of pay i.e. between €350-€410.

Net pay between €586-986 the subsidy is €350.

Seems strange that they wouldn’t close that gap to simplify it, and just cap it at €350 for everyone between €412-986 weekly net.

michellie

This is much better for me as a part time worker. With the 70%, I was coming out with much less per fortnight. 85% helps me a lot, I can top up with some holidays I carried over from last year too.

Jafin

I'm a tad confused over the announcement today. I'm in the €412 - €500 bracket. This week and last week I received just over €380 (€305 of which was the Covid-19 payment, the rest was my tax credits and USC). Does this mean there is no change for me, or that I am being bumped up from €305 to €350?

Tow

michellie wrote: »

This is much better for me as a part time worker. With the 70%, I was coming out with much less per fortnight. 85% helps me a lot, I can top up with some holidays I carried over from last year too.

It would appear to be illegal for employers to pay more than 70% Wage Subsidy.

In section 6 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/2/section/28

(d) In the case where the net weekly emoluments that would otherwise have been payable, as mentioned in subsection (2)(a), to the specified employee amount to not more than €586 per week, the amount of the temporary wage subsidy shall not exceed a weekly amount equivalent to 70 per cent of the net weekly emoluments that would otherwise have been so payable.

nibtrix

Tow wrote: »

It would appear to be illegal for employers to pay more than 70% Wage Subsidy.

In section 6 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/2/section/28

The quote you posted specifically says the SUBSIDY can’t be more than 70% of net pay (although this is now increased to 85% for earners under a certain amount), not that employers can’t pay more than 70%. Employers are allowed, actually encouraged, to top-up the payment to as close as possible of 100% of average net pay.

Tow

nibtrix wrote: »

The quote you posted specifically says the SUBSIDY can’t be more than 70% of net pay (although this is now increased to 85% for earners under a certain amount),

Exactly a Wage Subsidy of 70% of average revenue net weekly pay.

The minister for finance got 70% enshrined in law, he is on very iffy grounds to increase it to 85% without changing the law.

Fred Cryton

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

But you're just giving out about someone who was working short hours. Making them out to be some lazy dole scrounger. They're not, they lost their job. What do you want them to do?

I want them to earn less from not working than when they were working! How did you not comprehend that from my post?

Skihunta13

The revenue say they will look for the tax on the €350 subsidy from the employee at the end of the year.
How will this work? I am not earning any extra money now compared to january/february yet the revenue will look for the tax off me on the €350 subsidy received. I reckon that could amount to €800. Why am i liable for this when i am not taking home extra money?

august12

Skihunta13 wrote: »

The revenue say they will look for the tax on the €350 subsidy from the employee at the end of the year.
How will this work? I am not earning any extra money now compared to january/february yet the revenue will look for the tax off me on the €350 subsidy received. I reckon that could amount to €800. Why am i liable for this when i am not taking home extra money?

If you normally don't pay tax and this payment is similar to your weekly earnings. then you won't pay tax on it.

Skihunta13

august12 wrote: »

If you normally don't pay tax and this payment is similar to your weekly earnings. then you won't pay tax on it.

I do normally pay tax. But with the subsidy and my employer topping up my wages im still taking home my normal wage amount. However revenue say that they will look to recover the tax on the €350 subsidy off me at end of year. But i am not taking home any extra money so why am i liable to pay tax on the subsidy? I will end up being down money.