Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

Seve OB

bigboss1986 wrote: »

Hi all.On 16th of March i was put in 3 days week( X's and O's)
That was for 2 weeks.Now I received my payslip for 3days and instead wages it says Covid19 supplement (some Tax and PRSI refunded)
My wages are not topped up it says 1cent

Can I still claim for 2 days from Social Welfare(I already have forms for 8 weeks) or once Covid 19 is on payslip I cannot claim that.I tried website and ring Social Welfare but couldnt get anyone.
Thanks

You are now on the new scheme. It should be 70% of your usual net pay as calculated by the formula.
You cannot claim any other relief

Hooked

Any advice here?

I've heard we'll have to pay tax on this subsidy in future months?

My salary (Gross is literally a few Euro over 37,500) was paid in full this week BUT my payslip has 400.10 of that as the subsidy? And the rest as a MINUS figure from my tax? PAYE -171.14 USC -13.32 to give me my usual "take home" of 579 euro... With my employer adding nothing, it seems?

I'm working my usual 5 day, 37.5 hr week?

What is going on?


They've also decided to close tomorrow and Friday and take it out of our holidays? 2 days that they are seemingly not paying for?


Any input/advice is much appreciated...

Seve OB

Hooked wrote: »

Any advice here?

I've heard we'll have to pay tax on this subsidy in future months?

My salary (Gross is literally a few Euro over 37,500) was paid in full this week BUT my payslip has 400.10 of that as the subsidy? And the rest as a MINUS figure from my tax? PAYE -171.14 USC -13.32 to give me my usual "take home" of 579 euro... With my employer adding nothing, it seems?

I'm working my usual 5 day, 37.5 hr week?

What is going on?


They've also decided to close tomorrow and Friday and take it out of our holidays? 2 days that they are seemingly not paying for?


Any input/advice is much appreciated...

Sounds harsh, and possibly against the law. They have Essentially hit you with a pay cut. The subsidy is supposed to cover those on reduced hours To keep them on the books instead of getting laid off

You say employer is paying nothing. Is there even a penny in there Because they have to do at least that for this to work. A penny obviously equates to nothing but just have a look for it on your wage slip just to be sure because there might indeed be another amount in there.

Shamboo1801

Very informative thread, and thanks for all the submissions. Glad I stumbled across it. Just a query on my pay slip if anyone could help. My wages are normally around €750 take home. Now my payslip shows €350 covid payment, paye is -63, usc -13 and basic pay .01c. Total pay €427. I'm not getting a top up, so my query is, this tax at the end of the year people are inquiring about, would I be liable if I'm not getting topped up? Just want to know if I should be expecting a hit at the end of the year. Thanks again for all your inputs.

Jacovs

Another question on this, from an employee.

Usually full time employed.
The week of 23-29 March I worked a short week, 3 days. Claimed from social for the other 2 days, no problem, got that paid to me on 31 March. Received my regular payslip on 2 April for the 2 weeks 16-29 March. This to be my last payslip then.

On 27 March I was laid off effective 30 March, letter stating I would not be paid during this period. Informed social welfare and they changed me to jobseekers benefit and I got a 2 week payment off them yesterday. Again everything as it should be, social welfare very quick and good to deal with.

Now today out of nowhere our company sends an email to say they have decided to avail of this wage subsidy scheme and to expect an additional payslip for the period 16-29 March, which I then got soon after. Also dated 2 April, same as previous payslip. Amount of €350 on the payslip, which im not sure where they got that number from.

Asked my manager whats the story since all employees claiming social and now getting paid again, but was told to call revenue to sort it out, which I will do tomorrow.

Also, they are only doing this for employees that were laid off after the scheme started 26 March. I told them this is wrong, should be available to all who were employed on 29 february according to the gov.ie website.

Just wondering did the company **** up by doing it 2 weeks late and is it right that I have to sort this out myself with revenue? Any advice?

Hooked

Seve OB wrote: »

Sounds harsh, and possibly against the law. They have Essentially hit you with a pay cut. The subsidy is supposed to cover those on reduced hours To keep them on the books instead of getting laid off

You say employer is paying nothing. Is there even a penny in there Because they have to do at least that for this to work. A penny obviously equates to nothing but just have a look for it on your wage slip just to be sure because there might indeed be another amount in there.

Firstly - Thanks for your input.

My employer is contributing nothing. Zero.

I’ll be onto them on Tuesday. We were told initially that we’d be on a 3 day week.., with 1/3 laid off ‘temporarily’... then told we all had our jobs ‘as normal’ (once the subsidy was announced) and I assumed my employer would contribute to my salary... with a top up

So if they are contributing nothing.., am I technically on protective notice? It all Smells off to me.

Seve OB

chops018 wrote: »

PM sent. Thanks.

Replied to your pm.
Should give you a clear idea

Jafin

Seve OB wrote: »

that sounds bang on. no you won't be liable as such for the 63.47 or 13.10. however later in the year, the 305 will incur a tax change. however, tax credits might offset this.

its hard to tell what will happen to anybody later in the year because pay rates change and nobody knows if they will still be getting paid at all!

Ahhh ok that makes sense, thank you so much! I was worried that I'd have to repay this €76-ish a week at the end of the year or something.

Seve OB

Shamboo1801 wrote: »

Very informative thread, and thanks for all the submissions. Glad I stumbled across it. Just a query on my pay slip if anyone could help. My wages are normally around €750 take home. Now my payslip shows €350 covid payment, paye is -63, usc -13 and basic pay .01c. Total pay €427. I'm not getting a top up, so my query is, this tax at the end of the year people are inquiring about, would I be liable if I'm not getting topped up? Just want to know if I should be expecting a hit at the end of the year. Thanks again for all your inputs.

Possibly and probably. It’s just so hard to tell. All your tax is based on cumulative figures so it just depends on what you earn between now and dec 31 (including and social welfare amounts)

Seve OB

Jacovs wrote: »

Another question on this, from an employee.

Usually full time employed.
The week of 23-29 March I worked a short week, 3 days. Claimed from social for the other 2 days, no problem, got that paid to me on 31 March. Received my regular payslip on 2 April for the 2 weeks 16-29 March. This to be my last payslip then.

On 27 March I was laid off effective 30 March, letter stating I would not be paid during this period. Informed social welfare and they changed me to jobseekers benefit and I got a 2 week payment off them yesterday. Again everything as it should be, social welfare very quick and good to deal with.

Now today out of nowhere our company sends an email to say they have decided to avail of this wage subsidy scheme and to expect an additional payslip for the period 16-29 March, which I then got soon after. Also dated 2 April, same as previous payslip. Amount of €350 on the payslip, which im not sure where they got that number from.

Asked my manager whats the story since all employees claiming social and now getting paid again, but was told to call revenue to sort it out, which I will do tomorrow.

Also, they are only doing this for employees that were laid off after the scheme started 26 March. I told them this is wrong, should be available to all who were employed on 29 february according to the gov.ie website.

Just wondering did the company **** up by doing it 2 weeks late and is it right that I have to sort this out myself with revenue? Any advice?

The company is right, scheme only came into place and replaces previous scheme. Your average net pay is more than 586 so that’s why the amount is 350. It makes no difference to you, all you would get on social would be 350, now you are at least back on the employers books. Call revenue and tell them to stop any payments you have personally claimed as your employer has the scheme in place now, otherwise they will chase you for any overpayments.

It should settle down over the next week or so.

Heres Johnny

Couple of payroll guys here so just checking I ran 2 payrolls correctly

Picking a random amount here, something close to typical of the employees,and I've been topping up to 100%

Normal take home pay (calculated using 9 week average) 550

Subsidy available 385 euro (70%)
Top up (gross pay) 165 euro (30%)

Makes it 550

And when tax is calculated it could be a refund of say 50 euro

So the guy formerly taking home 550 is now 600 in his pocket

Even though people are not meant to take home more than normal take home pay I understand if this is caused by tax refund its all OK.....

Am I all above board here?

mickdw

Ive spoken to a number of small employers whose accountants have all told them to let staff go as opposed to running the 70 percent scheme. Now there have been some clarifications since from revenue but it doesnt appear to be the windfall for business that some see it as.
That said, if a business is ticking over and having all their staff at work and having them paid by governement, it is dodgy as hell. My initial understanding was that it was for businesses where staff were told to go home but just to keep them employed.

Seve OB

Hooked wrote: »

Firstly - Thanks for your input.

My employer is contributing nothing. Zero.

I’ll be onto them on Tuesday. We were told initially that we’d be on a 3 day week.., with 1/3 laid off ‘temporarily’... then told we all had our jobs ‘as normal’ (once the subsidy was announced) and I assumed my employer would contribute to my salary... with a top up

So if they are contributing nothing.., am I technically on protective notice? It all Smells off to me.

I’m not up to speed now on the legal s so won’t comment there.
But technically you are now working a full week for less pay.
My advice...... talk to your employer.

Seve OB

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Couple of payroll guys here so just checking I ran 2 payrolls correctly

Picking a random amount here, something close to typical of the employees,and I've been topping up to 100%

Normal take home pay (calculated using 9 week average) 550

Subsidy available 385 euro (70%)
Top up (gross pay) 165 euro (30%)

Makes it 550

And when tax is calculated it could be a refund of say 50 euro

So the guy formerly taking home 550 is now 600 in his pocket

Even though people are not meant to take home more than normal take home pay I understand if this is caused by tax refund its all OK.....

Am I all above board here?

You are above board. But I’ll just point out the confusion.
Take home pay does not necessarily = average net which has a defined formula for calculating.
There is no problem with take home pay being more than normal. As long as the top up plus subsidy are not greater than average net (as opposed to take home) then you are ok.

Seve OB

mickdw wrote: »

Ive spoken to a number of small employers whose accountants have all told them to let staff go as opposed to running the 70 percent scheme. Now there have been some clarifications since from revenue but it doesnt appear to be the windfall for business that some see it as.
That said, if a business is ticking over and having all their staff at work and having them paid by governement, it is dodgy as hell. My initial understanding was that it was for businesses where staff were told to go home but just to keep them employed.

Staff with little or no work. We have staff on it doing 2 or 3 days a week. When we get through it and hopefully build up a bit of cash again, we’ll look after the ones who gave a dig out.

jammiedodgers

Shamboo1801 wrote: »

Very informative thread, and thanks for all the submissions. Glad I stumbled across it. Just a query on my pay slip if anyone could help. My wages are normally around €750 take home. Now my payslip shows €350 covid payment, paye is -63, usc -13 and basic pay .01c. Total pay €427. I'm not getting a top up, so my query is, this tax at the end of the year people are inquiring about, would I be liable if I'm not getting topped up? Just want to know if I should be expecting a hit at the end of the year. Thanks again for all your inputs.

See below from the Revenue FAQ

Is the wage subsidy taxable on the employee?
The payments are liable to income tax; however, the subsidy is not taxable in real-time through the PAYE system
during the period of the Subsidy scheme. Instead the employee will be liable for tax on the subsidy amount paid to
them by their employer by way of review at the end of the year.
When an end of the year review takes place, it may be the case that an employee’s unused tax credits will cover any
further liability that may arise. Where this is not the case, and should an Income Tax liability arise, it is normal
Revenue practice to collect any tax owing in manageable amounts by reducing an individual’s tax credits for a future
year(s) in order to minimise any hardship. Additionally, if an individual has any additional tax credits to claim, for
example health expenses, this will also reduce any tax that may be owing.

Jacovs

Seve OB wrote: »

The company is right, scheme only came into place and replaces previous scheme. Your average net pay is more than 586 so that’s why the amount is 350. It makes no difference to you, all you would get on social would be 350, now you are at least back on the employers books. Call revenue and tell them to stop any payments you have personally claimed as your employer has the scheme in place now, otherwise they will chase you for any overpayments.

It should settle down over the next week or so.

My average net wages was over €620 per week, does that not entitled me to the full €410?

Im getting over €420 off the social at the moment due to personal circumstances, so I wouldnt mind dropping to €410, but dropping to €350 is a big drop.

Seve OB

mickdw wrote: »

Ive spoken to a number of small employers whose accountants have all told them to let staff go as opposed to running the 70 percent scheme. Now there have been some clarifications since from revenue but it doesnt appear to be the windfall for business that some see it as.
That said, if a business is ticking over and having all their staff at work and having them paid by governement, it is dodgy as hell. My initial understanding was that it was for businesses where staff were told to go home but just to keep them employed.

Meant to also add, it’s not meant to be a windfall, just a subsidy. It’s no more really that the staff would get by going on the scratcher so it’s keeping people off the live register and tied to their employer.

Also, some staff would be better off going on the scratch, up to the higher earning directors, so it’s just clever advice from the accountants to recommend this in certain cases.

jammiedodgers

Jacovs wrote: »

My average net wages was over €620 per week, does that not entitled me to the full €410?

Im getting over €420 off the social at the moment due to personal circumstances, so I wouldnt mind dropping to €410, but dropping to €350 is a big drop.

Nope -

During the short transition period the Subsidy Scheme:
• Increases the maximum refundable payment to €410 or 70% of the employee’s Average Net Weekly Pay,
whichever is lesser, for employees earning less than or equal to €586 per week net.
• Increases the maximum refundable payment to €350 or 70% of the employee’s Average Net Weekly Pay,
whichever is lesser, for those earning over €586 per week net and less than or equal to €960 per week net.

Seve OB

Jacovs wrote: »

My average net wages was over €620 per week, does that not entitled me to the full €410?

Im getting over €420 off the social at the moment due to personal circumstances, so I wouldnt mind dropping to €410, but dropping to €350 is a big drop.

No. And this is where the scheme is stupid. If you average earnings are 585 you could get up to 410. But if your average earnings are 587 you only get 350.

Now to further complicate this, if your average earnings are a penny over 960, then you are entitled to nothing.

Now I say “you are entitled to” but that’s not strictly true. It is your employer who is entitled to the subsidy and they pass it on to you.

CrabRevolution

Seve OB wrote: »

I’m not up to speed now on the legal s so won’t comment there.
But technically you are now working a full week for less pay.
My advice...... talk to your employer.

Yeah it doesn't look right at all to me.

Previously the company got a week's work from an employee, and paid €500 for it.
But now the company gets a week's work from an employee for free, and the taxpayer pays the employee a much reduced salary?

I got the impression this scheme was for companies who have stopped/reduced trading and would be letting people off or giving them much reduced hours, to keep them still "employed" even if they're not doing any/much work. That scenario seems a major abuse of the scheme.

Jacovs

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Nope -

During the short transition period the Subsidy Scheme:
• Increases the maximum refundable payment to €410 or 70% of the employee’s Average Net Weekly Pay,
whichever is lesser, for employees earning less than or equal to €586 per week net.
• Increases the maximum refundable payment to €350 or 70% of the employee’s Average Net Weekly Pay,
whichever is lesser, for those earning over €586 per week net and less than or equal to €960 per week net.

Thanks, I havent seen this before, thought it was one rate across the board. Mind directing me to where this information is? Last information I read on gov.ie today had no mention of it.

This also raises the question, why one of my supervisors got a payment of over €400 if they are meant to be on more money than me.

Heres Johnny

Seve OB wrote: »

You are above board. But I’ll just point out the confusion.
Take home pay does not necessarily = average net which has a defined formula for calculating.
There is no problem with take home pay being more than normal. As long as the top up plus subsidy are not greater than average net (as opposed to take home) then you are ok.

Thanks Seve, you're doing good work on this thread. Yes, sorry I did mean net (Gross less paye less prsi less usc)

One last question, in weeks 1 and 2 of this I moved employees to week 1 status and there was no tax refund, which is fine as we were paying them 100% anyway. In effect, I was saving up their tax refunds for them
Next week some staff will be moving to between 75% of net pay for those with no work at all to 100% for those still with 5 days work. And gradients of 80, 85, 90 and 95% for 1, 2, 3 and 4 days work.
I am thinking of releasing the tax refunds next week, will the tax refunds I have been saving up for them be released for 3 weeks all in one?

I do realise that the more tax refunds I allow now the more chance there is of a tax bill in the future, which I'm fine with to be honest.

Just wondering now did I do wrong by not allowing refunds in weeks 1 and 2?

Seve OB

Jacovs wrote: »

Thanks, I havent seen this before, thought it was one rate across the board. Mind directing me to where this information is? Last information I read on gov.ie today had no mention of it.

This also raises the question, why one of my supervisors got a payment of over €400 if they are meant to be on more money than me.

It’s all over the gvt website if you just google the scheme.

You supervisor could indeed be earning more than you. This scheme does not go on earnings. It all depends on their tax position. It could be as simple as them paying back tax from last year now or how their tax credits are structured...... another reason why the scheme is stupid and unfair

jammiedodgers

Jacovs wrote: »

Thanks, I havent seen this before, thought it was one rate across the board. Mind directing me to where this information is? Last information I read on gov.ie today had no mention of it.

This also raises the question, why one of my supervisors got a payment of over €400 if they are meant to be on more money than me.

Here is the Reveue FAQ

Seve OB

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Thanks Seve, you're doing good work on this thread. Yes, sorry I did mean net (Gross less paye less prsi less usc)

One last question, in weeks 1 and 2 of this I moved employees to week 1 status and there was no tax refund, which is fine as we were paying them 100% anyway. In effect, I was saving up their tax refunds for them
Next week some staff will be moving to between 75% of net pay for those with no work at all to 100% for those still with 5 days work. And gradients of 80, 85, 90 and 95% for 1, 2, 3 and 4 days work.
I am thinking of releasing the tax refunds next week, will the tax refunds I have been saving up for them be released for 3 weeks all in one?

I do realise that the more tax refunds I allow now the more chance there is of a tax bill in the future, which I'm fine with to be honest.

Just wondering now did I do wrong by not allowing refunds in weeks 1 and 2?

Thanks for the kudos. Happy to help with my knowledge.

Why did you move staff to week 1 basis? Unless told to by revenue you should never do this, indeed, revenue don’t even tell you that it’s ok to do this now, it should be all done via the rpn’s

As my posts above, just be careful if you are still expecting staff to do a full week but still including them on the scheme as it will be a pay cut to them. I’m assuming that when you mention the %s you are talking about topping them up to the average net, so it won’t be paying them their full wage. If you go above the average net, you will have to reduce the subsidy, and if you go all the way up to their normal gross, then there is no subsidy available

Jacovs

Seve OB wrote: »

It’s all over the gvt website if you just google the scheme.

You supervisor could indeed be earning more than you. This scheme does not go on earnings. It all depends on their tax position. It could be as simple as them paying back tax from last year now or how their tax credits are structured...... another reason why the scheme is stupid and unfair

Thanks, I went looking and found the information.

Originally I was looking at this (https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f24dcc-general-infomation-on-the-temporary-covid-19-wage-subsidy-scheme/) but it must be outdated.

Id say because I have tax credits from my wife and other credits which brings my net pay to higher than a single person would be on higher wages.

That is a bit **** then. Any way to tell the employer not to bother so I can avail of higher social welfare payment until my job is available again? Id rather get paid by company but not at a loss of €70ish per week.

Heres Johnny

Seve OB wrote: »

Thanks for the kudos. Happy to help with my knowledge.

Why did you move staff to week 1 basis? Unless told to by revenue you should never do this, indeed, revenue don’t even tell you that it’s ok to do this now, it should be all done via the rpn’s

As my posts above, just be careful if you are still expecting staff to do a full week but still including them on the scheme as it will be a pay cut to them. I’m assuming that when you mention the %s you are talking about topping them up to the average net, so it won’t be paying them their full wage. If you go above the average net, you will have to reduce the subsidy, and if you go all the way up to their normal gross, then there is no subsidy available

Percentages are of average net, correct. I know I can't go to gross.
Moved them to week 1 as the tax refunds kind of threw me to be honest, at the time the revenue document layest version that was out said I couldn't pay more than normal net and when the tax refunds brought this above I thought I was wrong. Its since been clarified in later revisions that a tax refund bringing it above is not to be included in calculations.

Seve OB

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Percentages are of average net, correct. I know I can't go to gross.
Moved them to week 1 as the tax refunds kind of threw me to be honest, at the time the revenue document layest version that was out said I couldn't pay more than normal net and when the tax refunds brought this above I thought I was wrong. Its since been clarified in later revisions that a tax refund bringing it above is not to be included in calculations.

Fair enough but just remember in future you should stick to the rpn’s unless Specifically told to change them by revenue.

What about the staff you have working full hours though and possibly those on 3 or 4 days a week. You are cutting their pay when you shouldn’t be.

kennethsmyth

Seve OB wrote: »

No. And this is where the scheme is stupid. If you average earnings are 585 you could get up to 410. But if your average earnings are 587 you only get 350.

Now to further complicate this, if your average earnings are a penny over 960, then you are entitled to nothing.

Now I say “you are entitled to” but that’s not strictly true. It is your employer who is entitled to the subsidy and they pass it on to you.

This is incorrect - you are mixing up what the company will be subsidized and what they will pay you. The SUBSIDY will drop to 350 after 586 and over 960 no subsidy to the company. However if the company is paying all other staff 70% to a max of 410 then they also need to do that a minimum for you otherwise it would be discrimination. Its not worth the company only paying you 350 if your normal net is much more as otherwise why would you continue to do any work at all if the covid payment from social is also 350 for 12 weeks