Go Safe speed vans - essential service.

trellheim

sorry I saw some muppet on Garda twitter get done for 160+ at blackchurch on the N7, yes they are an essential service

PukkaStukka

I see both sides of the argument here, but this is my own experience:

I live near Portrane in Co Dublin. The road out of here is 60kmh and is now being patrolled by a GoSafe van. This road doesn't have a fatality record, or one for accidents, and speed adherence that's no worse than anywhere else with a smallish local population.

Two miles away we have the Hearse Rd connecting Donabate to Swords & the M1. This road is busy, has an 80kmh speed limit and a notorious road safety record with a number of fatalities and injuries, particularly at one bad bend. The usual remedies like signage has made no difference. The speed limit hasn't been dropped despite it being suggested, nor are there GoSafe vans or Gardai to encourage slower speeds. This is an ongoing safety situation that's crying out for intervention which isn't forthcoming.

Travel a further three miles to Dublin Airport, you've 1km of dead straight motorway linking the airport to the M1. It's speed limit is 60kmh. It has no serious safety issues yet is heavily patrolled by both Gardai and GoSafe for no apparent reason to me other than revenue generation and I find that a scandal.

Everyone here supports road safety and nobody condones dangerous speeds. At the same time, everyone can see examples like I've given here where there are clear inconsistencies of approach when it comes to safety, and unfortunately, revenue generation that's conducted in the guise of safety.

Salary Negotiator

The “revenue generating” argument doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, Go-Safe costs more than it generates.

It’s a complete red herring to say enforcement is about generating revenue.

punisher5112

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The “revenue generating” argument doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, Go-Safe costs more than it generates.

It’s a complete red herring to say enforcement is about generating revenue.

But it's making a private individual a fortune.....

Salary Negotiator

punisher5112 wrote: »

But it's making a private individual a fortune.....

Who gets paid the same regardless of the number of detections.

AFAIK the SLAs are based on enforcement and surveying hours with the locations picked based on previous serious collisions (used to be fatal but the criteria were extended to include non-fatal serious collisions).

The contract is up for renewal next year too.

MrMusician18

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'm surprised service stations aren't making customers use the hatch and keep people out of the shops ...

They are at my local station.

GoSafe are absolutely essential. I have in a very urban areas and the amount of excessive speeding (well over 100km/h) in our 50 zone is frightening. The roads are devoid of traffic and there are some using it as an opportunity to open the throttle.

punisher5112

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They are at my local station.

GoSafe are absolutely essential. I have in a very urban areas and the amount of excessive speeding (well over 100km/h) in our 50 zone is frightening. The roads are devoid of traffic and there are some using it as an opportunity to open the throttle.

Enforcement is key.....

Better Garda presence and speed limits that are suitable to roads....

Many roads I drive where it's 50km/h and there is no housing or anything on them and could easily and safely be 60km/h.

Salary Negotiator

punisher5112 wrote: »

Enforcement is key.....

Complains about enforcement.

Padraig Mor

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It may have changed but that was very much the policy last time I looked. I doubt you can remember all the fatalities but it's all on the website anyway

And they can't park in areas that will cause more fatalities as a result of their presence ie bends not is there enough of them to cover all the spots all the time.

They changed recently from roads with a history of fatal crashes (and a sometimes tenuous link to speeding) to 'roads with lots of crashes' or similar. Complete bull of course, just going for easy pickings to keep the numbers up. e.g. here in Cork IIRC the top two roads for crashes are the N8 between Dunkettle and the N40 ring road, and these have been added in (or near) the entirety to the speed van list, complete with new laybys constructed on the N40. These are the two most heavily trafficked roads in Cork - of course they'll have the most crashes! And numbers of crashes in a BS metric in this case - I drive these roads daily and can tell you that the large majority of crashes (which are rarely serious) happen in the morning and evening rush hours - precisely when the traffic is moving at its slowest - these are mostly fender benders. Yet no doubt the speed vans will be parked up at quiet times on the roads - easy pickings at times when there is little history of crashes, once again proving that the RSA, Gardai etc have little interest in enforcing actual road safety, only in optics, and the pursuit of easy figures to make it look like they're doing something to improve safety, when in reality they're not.

PukkaStukka

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The “revenue generating” argument doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny,

They how do you explain vigorous enforcement like the 60k zone to the Airport when areas closer to me that are manifestly more dangerous are not monitored.

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Go-Safe costs more than it generates.

Source?

Del2005

Dravokivich wrote: »

You arent permitted to put memorials up anymore.

You can tell the relatives as you pull them down, it's usually a teddy a picture and some flowers left at the location.

jmayo

punisher5112 wrote: »

Fools driving like absolute maniacs....

Getting tail gated at any time of the morning or evening or night.....

Happening at 430am or 12pm... Fcuking absolute as# hats.

And whatabout the numpties who have nothing better to do these days, but go for a nice leisurely drive out in the countryside and are doddling along at 30mph in a 50mph zone ?

Some of us still have work to get to, now in middle of day due to looking after kids for part of it.

BTW it is a very necessary work linked to products that might keep you alive some day.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

E, positions are picked in advance having identified areas where fatal collisions have occurred thus targeting dangerous areas and allowing those positions to be advertised in advance

.

That is the biggest load of bullshyte that is propogated about the place to try condone the revenue gathering exercise and the lack of investment in fixing shyte roads.

I can count numerous areas where camera vans, Garda cars are placed which are not anywhere near the areas where there are real dangerous roads that people have lost their lives on.
And yes they can't place camera vans there because they have never bothered trying to fix the inherent dangerous issues with those roads.

It is the same thing as to why you have Garda cars hiding out at 11am or 3pm on a fine day, but are nowhere to be seen at pub closing times or when tanked up young wans are on their way to nightclubs or parties.

It would cost too much to have proper patrolling at that time of night.
And besides it is easier, cheaper and more profitable to catch someone in the middle of the day.
When do a lot of accidents happen?
Is it 11am, 3pm or maybe late night or early morning ?

The ultimate example I have seen of this cynical attitude was seeing Garda van setup on N4 Mullingar bypass the morning of big Mayo match in Croker.
It was setup around bend on dual carriageway, the first bit of dual carriage way that anyone heading east would have come across.

Was it there any other Sunday morning?
Was it there late any Sunday night ?
Was it fook.

Del2005

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The “revenue generating” argument doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, Go-Safe costs more than it generates.

It’s a complete red herring to say enforcement is about generating revenue.

Surely a speed reduction initiative that doesn't make any money is doing its job if it doesn't catch anyone.

I've zero problem with speed enforcement. The problem is that they aren't doing it in the dangerous locations. There is always speed checks on the N4 between the M50 and N4 and people rarely speed on this 3 lane road with no junctions yet go into any housing estate nearby, where the limit is 30, and see how many people exceed the limit. Have you seen a speed check outside of a school when the 30 limit is active?

Salary Negotiator

PukkaStukka wrote: »

They how do you explain vigorous enforcement like the 60k zone to the Airport when areas closer to me that are manifestly more dangerous are not monitored.



Source?

Here you go.

Del2005 wrote: »

Surely a speed reduction initiative that doesn't make any money is doing its job if it doesn't catch anyone.

I think that's the argument put forward, that the aim is reduce speed not catch motorists.

Spook_ie

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I see both sides of the argument here, but this is my own experience:

I live near Portrane in Co Dublin. The road out of here is 60kmh and is now being patrolled by a GoSafe van. This road doesn't have a fatality record, or one for accidents, and speed adherence that's no worse than anywhere else with a smallish local population.

Two miles away we have the Hearse Rd connecting Donabate to Swords & the M1. This road is busy, has an 80kmh speed limit and a notorious road safety record with a number of fatalities and injuries, particularly at one bad bend. The usual remedies like signage has made no difference. The speed limit hasn't been dropped despite it being suggested, nor are there GoSafe vans or Gardai to encourage slower speeds. This is an ongoing safety situation that's crying out for intervention which isn't forthcoming.

Travel a further three miles to Dublin Airport, you've 1km of dead straight motorway linking the airport to the M1. It's speed limit is 60kmh. It has no serious safety issues yet is heavily patrolled by both Gardai and GoSafe for no apparent reason to me other than revenue generation and I find that a scandal.

Everyone here supports road safety and nobody condones dangerous speeds. At the same time, everyone can see examples like I've given here where there are clear inconsistencies of approach when it comes to safety, and unfortunately, revenue generation that's conducted in the guise of safety.

PukkaStukka wrote: »

They how do you explain vigorous enforcement like the 60k zone to the Airport when areas closer to me that are manifestly more dangerous are not monitored.



Source?

I assume you're referring to the link road between the motorway and the airport roundabout, if so then that 60kph limit is essential and should be more enforced. Trying to get from the lane off the motorway southbound, round the roundabout, across to the left hand lane to head towards ALSAA and Santry without a 60 limit would be suicidal. It's bad enough as it is!

PukkaStukka

Spook_ie wrote: »

I assume you're referring to the link road between the motorway and the airport roundabout, if so then that 60kph limit is essential and should be more enforced. Trying to get from the lane off the motorway southbound, round the roundabout, across to the left hand lane to head towards ALSAA and Santry without a 60 limit would be suicidal. It's bad enough as it is!

No It's the other side heading away from airport. The side towards the airport I agree with you 100% - trying to cross 4 lanes is a tall order

trellheim

you'll always get the "ah its flash for cash the're all the same tis all about their quota " brigade ... sorry doesnt wash like I said if they are catching the 160 nutters on the N7 more power to their elbow, sure they will get lots of business but you know what I don't care.

Sonics2k

Here's a great way to stop seeing so many Go Safe speed vans on the road.

Stop being a twat and speeding down the road. I've been driving near 20 years and not once gotten a speeding ticket because I'm not a selfish gob****e.

I've had jobs as a Regional Manager for a good few companies and will rack up tens of thousands of kilometers in a few months and yet still gotten no speeding tickets, it's not hard.

kirving

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The “revenue generating” argument doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, Go-Safe costs more than it generates.

It’s a complete red herring to say enforcement is about generating revenue.

Equally, it's a complete red herring to use the value of the contract to argue against the contention that they're revenue generating.

If you're going to use that justification, then GoSafe are actively incitivised to catch as many motorists as possible.

In order to remain "loss making", catching more people means the government would have to pay them more money on contract renewal.

punisher5112

jmayo wrote: »

And whatabout the numpties who have nothing better to do these days, but go for a nice leisurely drive out in the countryside and are doddling along at 30mph in a 50mph zone ?

Some of us still have work to get to, now in middle of day due to looking after kids for part of it.

BTW it is a very necessary work linked to products that might keep you alive some day.




That is the biggest load of bullshyte that is propogated about the place to try condone the revenue gathering exercise and the lack of investment in fixing shyte roads.

I can count numerous areas where camera vans, Garda cars are placed which are not anywhere near the areas where there are real dangerous roads that people have lost their lives on.
And yes they can't place camera vans there because they have never bothered trying to fix the inherent dangerous issues with those roads.

It is the same thing as to why you have Garda cars hiding out at 11am or 3pm on a fine day, but are nowhere to be seen at pub closing times or when tanked up young wans are on their way to nightclubs or parties.

It would cost too much to have proper patrolling at that time of night.
And besides it is easier, cheaper and more profitable to catch someone in the middle of the day.
When do a lot of accidents happen?
Is it 11am, 3pm or maybe late night or early morning ?

The ultimate example I have seen of this cynical attitude was seeing Garda van setup on N4 Mullingar bypass the morning of big Mayo match in Croker.
It was setup around bend on dual carriageway, the first bit of dual carriage way that anyone heading east would have come across.

Was it there any other Sunday morning?
Was it there late any Sunday night ?
Was it fook.

What are you on about in all these cases I've had, I'm over the speed limit not going to lie and in the middle of an overtake....

As soon as I overtake I move back in....

It has nothing to do with people running services....

Dravokivich

Del2005 wrote: »

You can tell the relatives as you pull them down, it's usually a teddy a picture and some flowers left at the location.

They are only taking pre-existing ones down, when doing works.

Salary Negotiator

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Equally, it's a complete red herring to use the value of the contract to argue against the contention that they're revenue generating.

If you're going to use that justification, then GoSafe are actively incitivised to catch as many motorists as possible.

In order to remain "loss making", catching more people means the government would have to pay them more money on contract renewal.

It’s a tender contract so I’m not sure how the amount of revenue generated would impact on the price of the contract.

Increase the price and another company could undercut them.

galwaytt

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Equally, it's a complete red herring to use the value of the contract to argue against the contention that they're revenue generating.

If you're going to use that justification, then GoSafe are actively incitivised to catch as many motorists as possible.

In order to remain "loss making", catching more people means the government would have to pay them more money on contract renewal.

When 'GoSafe' started, the number of fines issued covered the cost of the contract + overage.

However, over time, the no of fines decreased and so did income and all of a sudden the State was actually sending money to GoSafe. It's the same funding model as the tolls on the motorways.

So, what to do: well, you find new, previously 'unpoliced' locations to catch people from again.

The argument about locations and their safety 'record' driving their selection is a fabrication. In the latest shuffle, GoSafe has started appearing regularly here:



https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2996061,-8.8830274,3a,90y,77.37h,87.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3ubtw0nq-hI6u11xX9JLrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

That is a new motorway, opened in 2009, with no junctions, nothing adverse, and no accidents, let alone fatal. People getting punctures and car fires do not apply.


I haven't even checked if GoSafe is legally allowed to park there tbh: they're not Garda, so would any issued ticket have standing.......... ???

punisher5112

galwaytt wrote: »

When 'GoSafe' started, the number of fines issued covered the cost of the contract + overage.

However, over time, the no of fines decreased and so did income and all of a sudden the State was actually sending money to GoSafe. It's the same funding model as the tolls on the motorways.

So, what to do: well, you find new, previously 'unpoliced' locations to catch people from again.

The argument about locations and their safety 'record' driving their selection is a fabrication. In the latest shuffle, GoSafe has started appearing regularly here:



https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2996061,-8.8830274,3a,90y,77.37h,87.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3ubtw0nq-hI6u11xX9JLrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-GB&authuser=0

That is a new motorway, opened in 2009, with no junctions, nothing adverse, and no accidents, let alone fatal. People getting punctures and car fires do not apply.


I haven't even checked if GoSafe is legally allowed to park there tbh: they're not Garda, so would any issued ticket have standing.......... ???

On N11 along stillorgan it's got Garda on the ground but they can be there, including motorway....

Believe GM said it was changed in 2016 to include sitting in the hard shoulder of a motorway but that's absolutely nuts and I wouldn't be setting up there and be taken out by a truck....

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

I know where they were because the memorials are still there. The occured on dual carriageways and other open roads, no memorials where the speed van parks.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous pieces of evidence I have ever seen.

Seriously? You think every fatality has a memorial? One that lasts more than a week or two? Just car crashes or all deaths?

Your confusing roads with grave yards.

Fyi, it's all available online

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

On N11 along stillorgan it's got Garda on the ground but they can be there, including motorway....

Believe GM said it was changed in 2016 to include sitting in the hard shoulder of a motorway but that's absolutely nuts and I wouldn't be setting up there and be taken out by a truck....

How would that be taken out by a truck if it's a safe place?

Right, can we put this to bed using very easily found online information? Considering the ridiculous personal opinion being used as 'facts' I doubt it but anyway...


"Safety cameras operate in areas where there is a history of speed related collisions"

"Road deaths have decreased from 415 in 2000 to 148 in 2019"

"All zones are available on the Garda website and available for GPS Navigation providers such as Garmin, TomTom, Google Maps or Waze to download."

"A further extensive analysis of collisions on the road network where speed was a contributory factor has been completed. The following sections of road, as set out on the map, were identified as having a significant proportion of collisions whereby, in the opinion of the investigating Garda, a safe speed was exceeded"

"An Garda Síochána appeals to all road users, in particular motorists, to familiarise themselves with these sections of the road network"

(https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Safety-Cameras/)

Here's the actual map for downloading: https://www.garda.ie/gosafe.html

Here's a PDF of the roads and the incidents that have occurred: https://www.garda.ie/en/roads-policing/safety-cameras/all-roads-including-road-names1.pdf

There's more on the website. The arguments here are pathetic, the evidence against your argument is obvious. Your speeding, your being a dope that could but didn't bother looking up the information it downloading it and you weren't paying enough attention at the time to see a large white van with a very clear logo and name written on it well in advance.

Stop being a baby, grow up and take responsibility.

Stark

LIGHTNING wrote: »

News flash, cars are getting safer every year. Average speeds are down too.

Safer for the person behind the wheel. Appalling number of pedestrians killed in recent weeks.

punisher5112

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How would that be taken out by a truck if it's a safe place?

I'm talking about the actual hard shoulder not the off road spots, they of course are some distance in but still not the safest either.....

If one breaks down they are told to get out and wait behind the crash barrier or move up embankment....

Also it's advisable to move past the rear of the car so you won't be hit be debris if your vehicle is hit....

lozenges

Man with a plan wrote: »

For what its worth I didn't get done as I had just came around a corner onto the road. While waiting at the traffic lights I saw the odd car pass by which would have passed in its path. Probably just the over the limit the odd one or two. The sad irony is these people who probably got done are more than likely the front line staff going to work keeping the country going during this sh!tstorm.

This is rubbish. I'm 'frontline staff' and I'm conscious that RTCs are and will continue to cause a significant number of fatalities in this country because some people are inconsiderate and impatient and selfish. I don't feel the need to speed just because the roads are empty and I think l'll get away with it.