Supporting craft breweries

Passenger

Anybody know the specifics of what happened with PMac's and why did the owners exit the location? It was always busy and seemed to have a fairly established crowd.

squonk

Even the GBB core business doesn’t look to be in the best shape these days. As I was reading this thread I popped over to the web shop. They do have two new beers but I kind of lost interest in their core range. They’re still coming in those 330ml cans as well.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153025#Comment_122153025

A restaurant has taken over the lease judging by internet chatter. So pub had no choice it seems.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152916#Comment_122152916

Manky? No. Dark, yes, I'll give you that. I mean, personally, if I'm around Capel Street or Temple Bar, I'll drink in Underdog or the Porterhouse or Beer Temple, and still enjoy a decent craft beer at a non-extortionate price, but you do you.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153004#Comment_122153004

So that's at least two of the GBB pubs now lost to craft beer. I'd say Diageo and Heineken were gloating.

thesandeman

Coming to Aldi next week:

Northbound Brewery Derry - Kolsch Style Beer.

Hercules Brewing Co Antrim - Yardman Rivets IPA.

McCracken's Brewery & Distillery Armagh - Stout.

Long Meadow Cider Armagh - Rhubarb and Honey Cider.

Troughton's - Armagh Cider 0.0%.

Fierce Mild Louth - Fierce Mild Beer 0.0%.

Also:

Killowen Distillery Down - Gloria Coffee Liqueur.

I'm not sure if we can officially call them Irish but....

And Greyson's Gin in a paper bottle 😕🤔.

breezy1985

Hadn't realised we have a non-alcoholic brewery in Ireland now.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150661#Comment_122150661

The Waterbank has a few Franciscan Well beers on tap, as well as Trouble Brewing and O Brother.

Twee.

In my humble opinion, the idea of what a "craft beer bar" looks like, or looked like, is dead. Trends and people move on. Sticky overcooked chicken wings and uncomfortable mismatched furniture while being charged €7.50 for a session IPA no longer cuts it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156328#Comment_122156328

It can still be good if done right but my favourite is when a craft brewery takes over a traditional bar like the Rising Suns pubs. Not sure what it's like in other cities but practically any pub in Limerick worth it's salt has a Treaty tap so you get the best of both worlds.

The bare room and chipboard style that absolutely everywhere in London seemed to go for is the one I hate. The type all over Bermondsey Beer Mile and the Mother Kelly's chain loved.

Passenger

Token in Smithfield is closing now too according to their Instagram.

squonk

It won’t happen but I’d like to be able to walk into the average bar and have the option of a few craft taps. Let them turn over every so often if they must. It’d keep it fresh.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162834#Comment_122162834

Awful lot of pubs out there where the manager or publican seem to have no interest in the bar trade.

Plenty of customers out there with reverse snobbery too. It's amazing how many adults I have seen being peer pressured into not trying something new. Wont ever go to another bar or try and drink. And I'm talking about in the cities where you have real choice.

The really weird one is Dublin though. I have definitely been I a lot of pubs there where there is a market for it. You can tell by the crowd and the scanning of taps but nothing on.

TaurenDruid

I mean, the recent closures aside, things are a lot better than they used to be, 20, or even 10 years ago. You've a reasonable prospect of getting at least one (actual) craft tap in a decent number of Dublin city centre and even suburban pubs, even if it's just one token IPA. That just didn't happen in the past - the nearest you could get to 'craft' was a German weiss.

What I am seeing recently, though, is a good number of pubs that used to have one or two independent craft taps losing them to 'Cute Hoor', Open Gate/Smithwicks Pale Ale or Five Lamps taps. There just seems to be a big push by the macro breweries to reclaim all the tap space in pubs.

Not that the CCPC will ever do anything about it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164789#Comment_122164789

Even if the CPC done something about it all that would happen is the macros would go the English model and buy up the few biggest craft brewers.

Meantime, Camden and Beavertown have absolutely wrecked the craft offering in London by replacing rotational taps with bland "sessionable" beers.

L1011

It's nearly 60 years now since the state first called the big breweries actions "anti competitive but not illegal". They have no intention of making it illegal.

It's a different set of firms doing it now, but the same results.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165076#Comment_122165076

We live in a country of free houses. I don't think the macro breweries are to blame for there not being independents on tap or in the fridges these days.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165402#Comment_122165402

I agree. Their dominance is a symptom, not a cause. The causes are the licensing system and drinkers' unshakeable brand loyalty.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165402#Comment_122165402

Their ability to pay massive sums in freebies or even just cold hard cash to publicans to get rid of lines is theirs to blame.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165438#Comment_122165438

It's not just brand loyalty.

We are a terribly insecure and squeamish country when it comes to standing out or trying new things.

Our palette is incredibly bland too. Most of the country thinks black pepper is too spicy and olive oil was only for your ears up until about 2001.

irish_goat

Classic line I heard whilst working in the Bull and Castle and offering tasters to punters was, "Stick to what you know".

As if they were born drinking Heineken…

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165526#Comment_122165526

Being able to sell in bulk and butter up clients with freebies is something that exists across commerce. It's not a reason to single out and hate breweries.

Thornbridge could give me a much better bulk deal than Orbit so should I hate Thornbridge ?

I drink in plenty of macro led pubs that have a craft tap so again blame the publican who takes the deal not the sales man doing his job legally.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165607#Comment_122165607

I absolutely agree with you there. I always try new beers.

Change/experimentation broadens the mind and taste buds

I know one person that won't drink anything other than Heineken, for no reason other than they just don't do change very well.

The only negative I have in craft beers is they took the prices offered by the established brands without the same marketing overheads. Beer is not that expensive to make, even in Ireland. I know selling on price is not a great strategy but it's normally the favourite way of getting a foothold In a new market or growing market share. I don't see how else you could compete with the incumbent brewers with big budgets. They immediately fought back with quasi/faux craft products themselves to put marketeer the true craft products at point of sale

the beer revolu

Pub I occasionally find myself in for music events always had a pale ale /IPA on tap. Was lways something there for me.

Now they've changed their taps and have 2 hazy/east coast/juicy/milky stuff. Probably just won't drink when I go there now! (snuble juice and big bunny the only non macros, now).

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165749#Comment_122165749

A deal that requires you to specifically drop a rival product breaches competition laws in other sectors.

A lot of craft kegs are cheaper to pubs than macros at this stage, but the pubs charge the prmium

crusd

My own personal feeling is the GBB pubs deteriorated after one of the orignial business partners sold up. I remember when they just had the Oslo and Cottage in Salthill and he seemed like the hospitality expert in the partnership. With the other lad more focused on the brewery

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166046#Comment_122166046

I hadn't noticed much over pricing in Limerick. Generally the macro passed out the Treaty stuff on the bars when the price went up.

In London I did charge more for craft regardless of the keg price sometimes because I knew I could and my job security was based on overall pub GP. So you over sold on some to undersell on others.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165752#Comment_122165752

The only negative I have in craft beers is they took the prices offered by the established brands without the same marketing overheads. Beer is not that expensive to make, even in Ireland. 

Nah, it is, if you're not benefitting from economies of scale. If you can guarantee you'll be buying x million tonnes of grain once it only contains y percentage of moisture, as opposed to the independent brewery who can only guarantee buying z thousand tonnes of grain, you're getting a much better price per tonne. Same with hops - the macros just don't use as much hops per keg as an indy making IPAs, and they still also benefit from economies of scale.

BeerNut

But again, as L1011 said above, the wholesale price of craft beer is lower than the wholesale price of macro beer. The publican decided you should pay more for your pint of Ambush than a pint of Guinness because he thinks you're good for it, not because the Ambush costs him more. It didn't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166430#Comment_122166430

A lot of publicans are clueless and when the papers and vintners tell them a keg has gone up so you need to charge 15c more they just do it blindly.

They then either put everything up or the macro passed the craft because they were not told to put it up.

Anyone have accurate prices these days as I'm a bit out of date. Macro was always cheaper on my experience.