A must read for the ''lockdown'' brigade.

Iscreamkone

Did a lockdown help in China?

pablo128

Pinkpotato wrote: »

What do you think will happen.
Close everything down for a couple of weeks.
Virus gone. Then what??

Because as soon as anyone goes up the North, over to see a football match, a holiday to Spain, they come home and bring the virus home with them. We are back to square 1.

Or do we keep all airports and ports closed, no people in or out. No products in or out. Nothing. For 2 years maybe more until a vaccine is created, IF a vaccine is created.

2 weeks quarantine somewhere for everyone coming into Ireland. This would make your 1 week Spanish holiday 3 weeks long!

But what about produce, Covid 19 was discovered on surfaces 17 days after everyone left the Diamond Princess. So no imports or exports.
This would also mean
No packages from Asos, Boohoo or any other places people order from.

Idiots haven't a clue and screaming for a Lock down. Lock down will not help us.

Enlighten us. What's your solution?

Pinkpotato

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Did a lockdown help in China?

Nope, they have cases coming into the country every day

Augme

The irony of you calling other people idiots is quite entertaining.

The point of a lockdown isn't to get rid of covid19 cases, it's to try and stop hospitals system collapsing. If you did even a bit of basic research or had a bit cop on you would realise this.

Salary Negotiator

Lockdown is just a buzzword for people who want to complain.

If stricter measures were implemented many of the same people would be complaining that the government had gone all authoritarian.

smelly sock

Pinkpotato wrote: »

What do you think will happen.
Close everything down for a couple of weeks.
Virus gone. Then what??

Because as soon as anyone goes up the North, over to see a football match, a holiday to Spain, they come home and bring the virus home with them. We are back to square 1.

Or do we keep all airports and ports closed, no people in or out. No products in or out. Nothing. For 2 years maybe more until a vaccine is created, IF a vaccine is created.

2 weeks quarantine somewhere for everyone coming into Ireland. This would make your 1 week Spanish holiday 3 weeks long!

But what about produce, Covid 19 was discovered on surfaces 17 days after everyone left the Diamond Princess. So no imports or exports.
This would also mean
No packages from Asos, Boohoo or any other places people order from.

Idiots haven't a clue and screaming for a Lock down. Lock down will not help us.

I think people want clarity and certainty. As does the Economy.

Pinkpotato

Augme wrote: »

The irony of you calling other people idiots is quite entertaining.

The point of a lockdown isn't to get rid of covid19 cases, it's to try and stop hospitals system collapsing. If you did even a bit of basic research or had a bit cop on you would realise this.

That's not why people are calling for lockdown!! They are calling for it because they think it will go away!

The aim is to slow the spread and build herd immunity. So we can all carry on as normal when we receive a certain amount of infected cases.

The only reason there would be a lock down would be if the virus spread to fast for HCP to cope.
So the implications of The measures set by government would slow it down, it's more idiots not listening who are at fault of it happening. Not the government. Probably same ones calling for lockdown

Dakota Dan

Augme wrote: »

The irony of you calling other people idiots is quite entertaining.

The point of a lockdown isn't to get rid of covid19 cases, it's to try and stop hospitals system collapsing. If you did even a bit of basic research or had a bit cop on you would realise this.

I wonder do the majority if the people screaming for lockdown know this, somehow I doubt it.

begbysback

There should be a ban for people requesting a lockdown.

Pinkpotato

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I wonder do the majority if the people screaming for lockdown know this, somehow I doubt it.

They don't! They think it will get rid of the virus from Ireland.

Pinkpotato

smelly sock wrote: »

I think people want clarity and certainty. As does the Economy.

I don't know how clearer it can be made.
Stay at home. Unless you have to go to work or shopping. Even if you have to go shopping, the whole family don't need to go.
Stay at home. If you are not at home, go home

endabob1

Pinkpotato wrote: »

What do you think will happen.
Close everything down for a couple of weeks.
Virus gone. Then what??

Because as soon as anyone goes up the North, over to see a football match, a holiday to Spain, they come home and bring the virus home with them. We are back to square 1.

Or do we keep all airports and ports closed, no people in or out. No products in or out. Nothing. For 2 years maybe more until a vaccine is created, IF a vaccine is created.

2 weeks quarantine somewhere for everyone coming into Ireland. This would make your 1 week Spanish holiday 3 weeks long!

But what about produce, Covid 19 was discovered on surfaces 17 days after everyone left the Diamond Princess. So no imports or exports.
This would also mean
No packages from Asos, Boohoo or any other places people order from.

Idiots haven't a clue and screaming for a Lock down. Lock down will not help us.

You realise that without a lockdown you are condemning tens of thousands to die......

The issue is (I am in the UK bud from all I have read Ireland is in the same boat) there aren't enough beds, last Friday so 5 days ago, when there were just over 3k cases in the UK 2 London hospitals had no ICU beds, there are now double that in cases.
So people, not corona victims who needed emergency treatment had no where to go, the woman who needed an emergency c section... the car crash victim.... the emergency beds are already full, this is what happens when you run a health service at near capacity as normal, there is no flexibility

The lock down slows the spread, you are right it doesn't stop it, but it slows it which will give the Health services a better chance to respond and also buys time for a vaccination to be found.

A lockdown is not the best solution, it is the only solution right now

recyclebin

I think it's ironic that the person calling people idiots didn't bother posting about it in the lockdown thread. Instead they created a totally unnecessary thread.

Jurgen Klopp

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I wonder do the majority if the people screaming for lockdown know this, somehow I doubt it.

I can think of at least 1 poster here that actually couldn't fathom the fact that a 3 weeks lockdown would not completely eradicate it from the country and things go back to normal.

I am seriously concerned there a lot out there who are actually that thick

In fact you'd wonder if a lot of the LOCKDOWN! crowd won't be going mad demanding all restrictions lifted after a lockdown period I can actually see it now

"We've had the lockdown, no new cases what do we need it for?! Blueshirt dictatorship!"

Pinkpotato

endabob1 wrote: »

You realise that without a lockdown you are condemning tens of thousands to die......

The issue is (I am in the UK bud from all I have read Ireland is in the same boat) there aren't enough beds, last Friday so 5 days ago, when there were just over 3k cases in the UK 2 London hospitals had no ICU beds, there are now double that in cases.
So people, not corona victims who needed emergency treatment had no where to go, the woman who needed an emergency c section... the car crash victim.... the emergency beds are already full, this is what happens when you run a health service at near capacity as normal, there is no flexibility

The lock down slows the spread, you are right it doesn't stop it, but it slows it which will give the Health services a better chance to respond and also buys time for a vaccination to be found.

A lockdown is not the best solution, it is the only solution right now

So we lock down again and again every few weeks, so we can build the herd immunity?That's the long term goal for this!
Social distancing slows the spread, it works in other countries where they don't have literal bold teenagers for adults. It's like we need to lock them in their bedroom to stop them sneaking out.

Same ones will scream how the gardai are rats and pigs for not letting them leave the house if it came to it

Elmer Blooker

Not a cloud in the sky morning, what a beautiful spring day after an endless winter of incessant rain and storms!
But remember folks - lock up your children, plonk them in front of a screen and do not let them outdoors .. all that vitamin D might even boost their immune systems!

biko

It's like listening to anti-vaxxers

Beasty

Threads merged

endabob1

Pinkpotato wrote: »

So we lock down again and again every few weeks, so we can build the herd immunity?That's the long term goal for this!
Social distancing slows the spread, it works in other countries where they don't have literal bold teenagers for adults. It's like we need to lock them in their bedroom to stop them sneaking out.

Same ones will scream how the gardai are rats and pigs for not letting them leave the house if it came to it

Most of Europe is on lockdown, as is Asia, India just shut down for 3 weeks, 1.2 billion people.... I am genuinely curious about where social distancing is working

Pinch Flat

You close to devolping a vaccine Op? Or maybe you could set out your own plan. Perhaps give someone in wuhan a call?

Pinkpotato

endabob1 wrote: »

Most of Europe is on lockdown, as is Asia, India just shut down for 3 weeks, 1.2 billion people.... I am genuinely curious about where social distancing is working

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.amp.html%3f0p19G=2870

Jurgen Klopp

Pinkpotato wrote: »

So we lock down again and again every few weeks, so we can build the herd immunity?That's the long term goal for this!
Social distancing slows the spread, it works in other countries where they don't have literal bold teenagers for adults. It's like we need to lock them in their bedroom to stop them sneaking out.

Same ones will scream how the gardai are rats and pigs for not letting them leave the house if it came to it

If I'm being honest. A vaccine trialed and deployed to enough people would nearly be 2 years.

I can only see 2 longterm prospects

1. Catch and release: if we get it under control we follow what some have been muting where we lift restrictions and lockdown when a certain number are infected again. I've seen a 1 month off and 2 month lockdown muted don't see how that is practical economic wise. Can't see shops, etc opening for a month and closing for two long with hiring staff. Solution seems to be "print more money" according to some

2. Cocooning: the elderly and vulnerable are asked to self isolate as Leo and Boris announced and they'll try and get the rest of us back out there to work. I'm convinced the fact Leo came out with this is a drip feed that's this what they know they'll have to eventually do IMO can't see how they can do step 1 for 2 years and keep paying dole, pensions and expect the HSE without them taking dramatics drops in standard.

Peregrinus

To be blunt, if people who normally work aren't working then we are, as a community, getting poorer, and no amount of borrowing or printing money will get around this. You can give people all the free money you like to buy bread with but if farmers aren't planting and harvesting, millers aren't milling and bakers aren't baking there will be no bread to buy. Obviously we have to keep the basics of the economy going - we have to feed, clothe and shelter the community and of course also provide medical care - but because so many people are working less or not at all we will have fewer resources with which to do that. Inevitably this means a transfer of resources from those who have them to those who need them on a greater scale than is usual, and once you accept that - and you had better accept it, because it is inevitable - we are only arging about the optimal mechanism for effecting that transfer.

Realistically, we are 18 months to 2 years away from having a vaccinated population. The challenge in that time is to balance (a) the need for enough people to work to generate the resources we need as a community with (b) the need for isolation/social distancing to prevent spikes in infections from overwhelming our capacity to care for people.

But over that time there is some reason to hope that the experience of CV19 will become less awful. Two things may help here"

First, over time a new virus tends to become less virulent. Less lethal stains of the virus tend to crowd out more lethal strains (because they are, in a Darwinian sense, better adapted to their environment).

Secondly, even before a vaccine arrives, we may find more effective ways of treating those infected with CV19, so that few of them become critically ill, and fewer die.

So there is merit to deferring as many infections for as long as possible, and it's worth paying a signficant economic price to do that. Many lives wil be saved.

sydthebeat

Peregrinus wrote: »

To be blunt, if people who normally work aren't working then we are, as a community, getting poorer, and no amount of borrowing or printing money will get around this.

On a global scale, if everyones economy is slowly down, then "poorer" just becomes a relative term to describe where we were, rather than where we are.

Farmers are still planting, processing plants are still processing. Supply lines are still open. All that has changed has been the social aspect of purchasing.

The heath service has, or will in the coming weeks, basically become a front line in fighting covid, and all the non essential and electoral procedures with, unfortunately, have to be postponed until schedules clear.

The main point that everyone needs to realise is the the stricter EVERYONE adheres to the distancing, the less people will die AND the quicker we will come out of this.

Doodah7

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not a cloud in the sky morning, what a beautiful spring day after an endless winter of incessant rain and storms!
But remember folks - lock up your children, plonk them in front of a screen and do not let them outdoors .. all that vitamin D might even boost their immune systems!

Send them out to the garden and stop being so overly dramatic!!

sydthebeat

Doodah7 wrote: »

Send them out to the garden and stop being so overly dramatic!!

Whoosh

The sarcasm is literally dripping off Elmers post

jmayo

trapp wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/16/asia/coronavirus-xi-wuhan-anger-intl-hnk/index.html

What is your agenda around here ?

dartboardio wrote: »

Thank you for this.

Some Load of fecking eejits around the place shouting 'lockdown, lockdown!' when they haven't a clue what something like that would take, or how it would probably put us on our arse ten times worse than any crash would.

As opposed to the fooking eejits that think everyone and anyone should just wander around the place, infect everyone and totally overwhelm the health systems, the morgues, the crematoriums and ultimately lead to bodies being shoved into mass graves.
But you usually find the proponents of doing jack sh** are young enough and believe they are healthy enough to withstand the virus and it will be some other poor bastard that will be doing the dying.

God help us if the virus were to mutate.

Then again it might do us a favour and mutate into something that targets self entitled fooking eejits.

Alf Veedersane

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Most people won't need to be "forced" to stay in their homes, if the measures are aimed at saving huge amounts of lives....

Most will comply by choice... especially if we have the very scary Italian type numbers developing!

So you won't need that many guards or army in reality.

You may need more old school style enforcement for certain people, like the OP... there will always be a few who will completely lose their heads, and start rebelling. But most people will be sensible and comply!

Therein lies the problem. If people need to see the numbers escalate to the level of Italy then it's already too late.

Too many being complacent because the numbers are not yet at that level and missing the point that if they continue largely as normal then they increase the risk of getting to that point.

jmayo

Peregrinus wrote: »

To be blunt, if people who normally work aren't working then we are, as a community, getting poorer, and no amount of borrowing or printing money will get around this. You can give people all the free money you like to buy bread with but if farmers aren't planting and harvesting, millers aren't milling and bakers aren't baking there will be no bread to buy. Obviously we have to keep the basics of the economy going - we have to feed, clothe and shelter the community and of course also provide medical care - but because so many people are working less or not at all we will have fewer resources with which to do that. Inevitably this means a transfer of resources from those who have them to those who need them on a greater scale than is usual, and once you accept that - and you had better accept it, because it is inevitable - we are only arging about the optimal mechanism for effecting that transfer.

Actually we are learning who is really important to life.

It is not the fooking overpaid pre-madonnas playing sports, the gombeens in offices needlessly shoveling paper to each other, the media types, the gombeens doing unnecessary jobs, but the people who provide us with food, medicines, health care and security.

It probably irritates some around here no end that farmers for instance will still be out working in the countryside providing the raw materials to keep us alive.

I think it's important to differentiate a lockdown with enforced social distancing/isolation. A lockdown won't occur because Irish people wouldn't or couldn't accept a lockdown the same way an Asian culture could. So, a complete lockdown just isn't going to happen unless we have people dying in the streets.

Instead, it's more likely to be an enforcement of social distancing. No groups interacting. People are allowed outside but only as singles.. individuals walking the dog, or going to the supermarket. Enforcing people to be alone, drastically cuts down the risk of accidental transmission of the virus outside, because it makes it easier for people to avoid each other. Paired people take up too much space on footpaths.

For those who believe that a lockdown couldn't occur because of a lack of manpower.. placing checkpoints at certain intersections, and having roving patrols would effectively lock down movement in Ireland. As others have said, the use of documentation to be checked by the roving patrols with fines or deferred sentencing would be effective in cutting down those breaking the containment.

The point is to reduce the speed of the spread.. I don't really understand why many posters can't accept this. As for the lockdown brigade... Sure, I guess I am one now, although enforced distancing would be more accurate. Previously I hoped that Irish people would have the cop on to social distance, but I don't any longer. I've just seen too many people making half-hearted gestures towards social distancing... It seems Irish people need a nanny to remind them when they're right or wrong in how they behave.