COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

hmmm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Covid-19 is supposedly a totally new virus transmuted from a bat.

How could you possibly copy and paste 17 year old research when dealing with such a novel, freak occurrence?

Read the article, it answers the question.

FutureTeashock

hmmm wrote: »

Read the article, it answers the question.

There have been previous cases of swine flu dating back many decades, but it didn't stop the 2009 swine flu vaccine from being a disaster, so your point is moot I'm afraid.

irishgeo

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Covid-19 is supposedly a totally new virus transmuted from a bat.

How could you possibly copy and paste 17 year old research when dealing with such a novel, freak occurrence?

its 80% similar to SARS

The oxford researchers were working on a MERS vaccine and basically just switched to COVID 19. its how they are so far ahead of the rest of them.

Marhay70

FutureTeashock wrote: »

There have been previous cases of swine flu dating back many decades, but it didn't stop the 2009 swine flu vaccine from being a disaster, so your point is moot I'm afraid.

On doing some reading on the 2009 pandemic It revealed that 30,000,000 vaccines were administered in Europe, of which 1300 caused problems. While no consolation for those affected, hardly a disaster in terms of judging the effectiveness of the vaccine, particularly as those people had a rogue gene which facilitated the condition. There is always going to be difficulty in covering all eventualities when researching the unknown.
Judging by the medical evidence which is appearing now in cases of Covid -19, among that sector of the population supposedly less at risk, your idea of locking up the vulnerable and letting the virus run loose among the rest, is what could prove to be the disaster, maybe not tomorrow but as young people grow older, incidences of lung, heart, kidney and liver disease will skyrocket which will tax the HSE to its limit and is just plain irresponsible in my view.

Hmmzis

An interesting alternative to monoclonal AB cocktails, affinity matured ACE2 decoys:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.31.231746v2

This does make me wonder if it also binds the actual angiotensin. If that happens it could cause some blood preassure issues.

is_that_so

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Covid-19 is supposedly a totally new virus transmuted from a bat.

How could you possibly copy and paste 17 year old research when dealing with such a novel, freak occurrence?

SARS-COVID-2 is the virus and it is related to the original SARS. There is nothing freaky about it, bats can have billions of versions of viruses insides them. This one we don't have immunity to. That research stopped on SARS because it burnt out and disappeared. We use 200 year research in vaccinations all the time anyway.

Danzy

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Covid-19 is supposedly a totally new virus transmuted from a bat.

How could you possibly copy and paste 17 year old research when dealing with such a novel, freak occurrence?

Novel doesn't mean it has no similarities.

Your looking at it in the wrong way.

NaFirinne

I just think these vaccines will potentially cause far more harm the even covid 19 does given that governments are allowing big pharma to rush experimental vaccines, with no legal recourse if something goes terribly wrong.

That does not give me any confidence that they will be ethically minded and follow all best practices when it comes to producing these vaccines.

Micky 32

You reckon the vaccine will cause 680,000 deaths in 6 months?

ACitizenErased

I’d take the vaccine now if it was going ffs

hmmm

Danzy wrote: »

Novel doesn't mean it has no similarities.

Your looking at it in the wrong way.

Yes, SARS 1 also likely came from bats, and are in the same family of viruses with similar features.

Marhay70

NaFirinne wrote: »

I just think these vaccines will potentially cause far more harm the even covid 19 does given that governments are allowing big pharma to rush experimental vaccines, with no legal recourse if something goes terribly wrong.

That does not give me any confidence that they will be ethically minded and follow all best practices when it comes to producing these vaccines.

Exactly the same position was taken in 2009 and as you can see from my figures above there was no calamity and the people who were affected were already compromised by their own system.
The companies who are developing this vaccine have already indicated what pricing levels will be and they seem to be reasonable for all the investment of time, facilities and materials. This is not an everyday situation, this is a crisis of monumental proportion and the damage done to the world economy just gets worse with every day, so I think we can afford to invest a few bob at this stage.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’d take the vaccine now if it was going ffs

i would not. I'm not an anti vaxxer by any stretch. I've had flu jabs with work, and if I had kids they would get what vaccinations they needed to get.

But I'm not in an at risk category, and IMO the long term risks to my own health of a rushed through vaccine are greater than the risks of COVID. I will continue to wear masks and socially distance appropriately. The Times in the UK reported yesterday that surveys suggest that up to 30% of people think as I do, meaning it is going to be a real tough job to persuade enough people to take it I think

Marhay70

Deleted User wrote: »

i would not. I'm not an anti vaxxer by any stretch. I've had flu jabs with work, and if I had kids they would get what vaccinations they needed to get.

But I'm not in an at risk category, and IMO the long term risks to my own health of a rushed through vaccine are greater than the risks of COVID. I will continue to wear masks and socially distance appropriately. The Times in the UK reported yesterday that surveys suggest that up to 30% of people think as I do, meaning it is going to be a real tough job to persuade enough people to take it I think

I think firstly you should disabuse yourself of the idea that there are low risk or no risk categories, everybody is at risk to some degree and it's only when you contract it that you discover if you are in one of those categories. Have you been following the figures that come out daily from NPHET? In those you'll see that the categories of people who are making up the new cases are now very much weighted towards younger population, it looks like it had an easier time bypassing the weaker immune systems of the older generation so they succumbed more quickly, now that its had time to get up a head of steam, nobody is safe.

padser

Marhay70 wrote: »

I think firstly you should disabuse yourself of the idea that there are low risk or no risk categories, everybody is at risk to some degree and it's only when you contract it that you discover if you are in one of those categories. Have you been following the figures that come out daily from NPHET? In those you'll see that the categories of people who are making up the new cases are now very much weighted towards younger population, it looks like it had an easier time bypassing the weaker immune systems of the older generation so they succumbed more quickly, now that its had time to get up a head of steam, nobody is safe.

I think the OP means their risk of dying is low, not their risk of contracting it.

I still think its not the correct way to look at it. But I think that's what the OP means.

Marhay70

padser wrote: »

I think the OP means their risk of dying is low, not their risk of contracting it.

I still think its not the correct way to look at it. But I think that's what the OP means.

Doesn't alter the fact that you won't know the prognosis until you contract it.
I would always prefer not to get a disease than to discover it may not kill me and some of the results of contracting Covid 19 are very severe even if not fatal.

NaFirinne

Micky 32 wrote: »

You reckon the vaccine will cause 680,000 deaths in 6 months?

The thing is with a rush job being done and with absolutely no repercussions on the Pharma that are producing the vaccines if they mess up then is no way we can be sure. Over that longer term they could possible kill many more people then covid 19.


They have no real incentive to follow best practices and these can have deadly consequences.

hmmm

NaFirinne wrote: »

They have no real incentive to follow best practices and these can have deadly consequences.

Completely wrong of course. There's multiple regulators looking at the work being done, and who will have to sign-off on any new vaccines. The leading US candidate (Moderna) were already held arguing with the US regulator, and the regulator got its way in the end.

padser

padser wrote: »

I think the OP means their risk of dying is low, not their risk of contracting it.

I still think its not the correct way to look at it. But I think that's what the OP means.

That's correct. I am not going to rush into taking it as soon as it is available. Its a balance between my personal risk of dying or suffering long term health issues from the virus, and the unknown long term health impacts of a vaccine. The majority of people voting on this thread appear to have the same view. I think that it will be tough for governments and the medical profession to get sufficient take up unless they dramatically improve their messaging and level of reassurance around what will be perceived by most as a rushed vaccine.

NaFirinne

It's not completely wrong the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has a law called the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness (PREP) Act, which provides immunity to vaccine companies if something goes wrong.


Also some of the proposed vaccines are these new type of RNA Vaccines which as far as I know have never been previously used on Humans.


and in some tests on animals made Covid 19 even worse and killing those who previously were not even vulnerable to it.

hmmm

NaFirinne wrote: »

and in some tests on animals made Covid 19 even worse and killing those who previously were not even vulnerable to it.

This is just not true.

Sounds to me like you've been fed some line about ADE, which occurs in some other viruses but we have not seen with Covid.

Gael23

Once a vaccine is proven to work and licensed how long will it take to mass produce millions of doses?

Micky 32

Gael23 wrote: »

Once a vaccine is proven to work and licensed how long will it take to mass produce millions of doses?

I remember reading somewhere that one company ( can’t remember which one) claimed they could make 2 billion doses within 2 months, could be wrong.

Marhay70

Micky 32 wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that one company ( can’t remember which one) claimed they could make 2 billion doses within 2 months, could be wrong.

India, the world's largest vaccine producer would be hard pushed to do that in a year. It's not just the vaccine, it's the bottles it comes in, the syringes to inject it, the PPE even the alcohol to swab the site. All these logistics come into play and then we must remember all the other vaccines and drugs we need, we can't just stop producing them.
I'm pretty sure all the stops will be pulled out once we have the vaccine but there are limitations.

seanb85

Marhay70 wrote: »

India, the world's largest vaccine producer would be hard pushed to do that in a year. It's not just the vaccine, it's the bottles it comes in, the syringes to inject it, the PPE even the alcohol to swab the site. All these logistics come into play and then we must remember all the other vaccines and drugs we need, we can't just stop producing them.
I'm pretty sure all the stops will be pulled out once we have the vaccine but there are limitations.

Yep, the Serum Institute of India are the world's biggest vaccine producer and they are making 100m a month of the Oxford one.

They would normally produce 1.5b doses of other vaccines in a year.

Gael23

So then hopefully by the time it’s approved there should be a good volume already produced and ready

Santy2015

Documentary about the oxford vaccine on channel 4 at 9pm.

Hmmzis

Missed this one somehow, Derek Lowe has compiled a table of all the vaccine candidates that have published NHP challenge data:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/30/coronavirus-challenges-in-primates-compared

I hope the table will grow over the coming weeks and we'll see even more good data coming out the trials.

Hmmzis

Some hopefull news on the treatment side:

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/neurorx-relief-aviptadil-data/

A polypeptide that occurs in the lungs as a cytokine inhibitor made into a drug. Even with the low n it appears to have a very positive effect on critical patients. Fingers crossed for the ongoing RCT.

Marhay70

Hmmzis wrote: »

Some hopefull news on the treatment side:

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/neurorx-relief-aviptadil-data/

A polypeptide that occurs in the lungs as a cytokine inhibitor made into a drug. Even with the low n it appears to have a very positive effect on critical patients. Fingers crossed for the ongoing RCT.

I would hope a lot more effort will be put into research on the treatment side. Vaccine is very important for those who don't have the virus but for those who do and are facing an uncertain prognosis, effective treatment is much more important. How available is this drug?